2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia
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If The B&I Lions Pty Ltd want to make comment about the relative strength of the mid-week teams they get to play, perhaps they could, just before they send the fucking CEO out to spout shit, have a quick squiz at the team sheets of not only their own squad, but every professional club in Europe that is chock full of Kiwis, Aussies and Saffers that might be providing them with a sterner challenge if they hadn't been bought.
I wouldn't be expecting the kiwi Super sides shorn of their best players providing that much stronger opposition next tour.
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There should be an enormous tariff on podcast equipment. The entire podcast industry has allowed the opinions of far too many bog-average ex-internationals to be heard by far too many. Why in the fuck would anyone listen to what a complete flog and desperately average footballer like James Haskell has got to say?
The Lions tour is one of the last "traditions" that exist in rugby. Grand Slam tours happen every single November. Everyone plays each other so often that it's almost mundane. The World Cup has robbed test rugby of much of its lustre.
You can look at this tour through the eyes of box score piston wristed gibbons and think it was one-sided and a bit boring. Or you can look at packed houses, fan engagement, media engagement (non rugby media types talking about test rugby for once) the incredible touring fans filling all parts of Australia (most are up here at the moment before flying back to Sydney).
And it means a shit ton to the players too, on both sides. Players want to make that squad. Then players want to make that test team. And on the other side, players definitely plan careers around Lions tours.
Long may it live.
yes, international rugby is absolutely on a four year cycle now
the lions are a bit of an outlyer from the cycle (or maybe not) because they are also on a four year cycle, which is just about right i'd think -
If The B&I Lions Pty Ltd want to make comment about the relative strength of the mid-week teams they get to play, perhaps they could, just before they send the fucking CEO out to spout shit, have a quick squiz at the team sheets of not only their own squad, but every professional club in Europe that is chock full of Kiwis, Aussies and Saffers that might be providing them with a sterner challenge if they hadn't been bought.
I wouldn't be expecting the kiwi Super sides shorn of their best players providing that much stronger opposition next tour.
fuck yeah
imagine if all those SH pro players on NH contracts were still playing in SH domestic comps, which is just how it was in olden times
seeing a player that went to the same school i did, running out for the BI lions in a test match . . . hmmm -
fuck yeah
imagine if all those SH pro players on NH contracts were still playing in SH domestic comps, which is just how it was in olden times
seeing a player that went to the same school i did, running out for the BI lions in a test match . . . hmmm@mohikamo said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
fuck yeah
imagine if all those SH pro players on NH contracts were still playing in SH domestic comps, which is just how it was in olden times
seeing a player that went to the same school i did, running out for the BI lions in a test match . . . hmmmIt will be closer to a two year cycle once the SA tour and Nations Championship kicks off, particularly given how lucrative the latter is likely to be.
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lol i came here to tell everyone to go find Drew Mitchell blind and somehow allowed on camera. Hilarious stuff.
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A series that ended 2-1. A series that turned, in the end, on one play and one missed tackle. Sell out crowds of nearly 250,000 people at iconic sporting venues. Millions of dollars made for the Aussie economy. Tens of thousands of British and Irish tourists going home after a trip of a life time. Much debate about referees and TMOs. Thousands of yarns told over jugs of beer. Friendships forged between good rugby folk.
Let's stop right now all talk of the British and Irish Lions not touring Australia again.
Roll on 2037!
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No matter what happens on Saturday I have begun to reflect on this tour and what it means for the future of the Lions. Lots of comments in the Aussie press that the Lions and their fans / media etc had disrespected Aus by suggesting this might be the last tour. Last week's game came close to bursting that bubble but if I think about it, I'm not sure it really did.
Haskell and co are talking about using the Lions brand more in between the 4 year cycles, playing in other countries. The next tour to NZ is the last one currently contracted then its all up for grabs again. As much as it clearly raises huge funds for the hosting nation I think professionalism is gradually undermining the concept of the tour.
So lets assume we tour NZ in 4 years, what then? South Africa would likely deserve a tour and I hope they would put more effort into it than they did in 2009 - obvs last time was hard because of covid. But then Aus again? Lots of talk about the Lions touring France, or even Argentina, although the non tests would be a joke. If they toured France, does it raise as much money? Is it different enough from the 6N? As much as I would love to see Toulouse vs the Lions, would they even want to play and would their players be available? Would the weight of fans travel to France for a tour or would they fly in and out for games?
Then there's talk of building in warm up games against Fiji / Tonga or even the US, etc but i can't see how that would be anything other than a cricket score. There's also talk of a combined SANZAR Panthers side playing against the Lions - potentially across continents including Europe - but that destroys the touring context that clearly the fans who travel love so much - and defy's Jason Leonard's previous point as Chairman of the Lions, that the Lions are first and foremost a touring side to spread the game.
I suspect it will likely carry on as is given the money situation, but i would worry about the Aus tour in 12 years if the seeming drift of the Aussie public away from rugby continues
Thought-provoking post.
I think the BIL are a throwback to the time when money was less important than now and being in the squad was something very, very special to the players and it's the one major tour which has survived the pro era.
It's different to the constant round of 6N & RC competitions and something we talk about in the same context as World Cups - if not more. I'm really looking forward to the Boks doing full tours to NZ again for exactly the same reason.
Apart from tweaking the warm-up games against the smaller countries, just leave it as it is and don't let money fuck with it as it has in other parts of the game.
EDIT: I'd also add too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste rather than the festival of Rugby it should be. Both the Lions and the host countries need to stop this sort of corrosive shit.
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Thought-provoking post.
I think the BIL are a throwback to the time when money was less important than now and being in the squad was something very, very special to the players and it's the one major tour which has survived the pro era.
It's different to the constant round of 6N & RC competitions and something we talk about in the same context as World Cups - if not more. I'm really looking forward to the Boks doing full tours to NZ again for exactly the same reason.
Apart from tweaking the warm-up games against the smaller countries, just leave it as it is and don't let money fuck with it as it has in other parts of the game.
EDIT: I'd also add too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste rather than the festival of Rugby it should be. Both the Lions and the host countries need to stop this sort of corrosive shit.
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste
This.
2017 was the start of my disconnection from rugby - there was no 'phew, Lions got away with one at the end' from their fans, it was 'Kieran was offside' 'ref was 100% right' etc. You saw it in this series with the cleanout at the end of the second test. Blaming the Aussie for not coming through the gate, banging on about simulation - it's all distraction from a critical call. You can argue about the ruling, but it's the shithousery around it that left a bad taste in my mouth. Holier than thou, with a plank in the eye.
Media, Woodward, Alastair Campbell, Gats, Farrell all have plenty to answer for, but the end result is a bit shit.
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This is spot on IMHO.
https://twitter.com/mana_rugby/status/1951896668946727261?s=46
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The BBC's player ratings for the tour which seem consistently too high for the Irish players.
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Thought-provoking post.
I think the BIL are a throwback to the time when money was less important than now and being in the squad was something very, very special to the players and it's the one major tour which has survived the pro era.
It's different to the constant round of 6N & RC competitions and something we talk about in the same context as World Cups - if not more. I'm really looking forward to the Boks doing full tours to NZ again for exactly the same reason.
Apart from tweaking the warm-up games against the smaller countries, just leave it as it is and don't let money fuck with it as it has in other parts of the game.
EDIT: I'd also add too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste rather than the festival of Rugby it should be. Both the Lions and the host countries need to stop this sort of corrosive shit.
Would double upvote the last bit if I could.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste
This.
2017 was the start of my disconnection from rugby - there was no 'phew, Lions got away with one at the end' from their fans, it was 'Kieran was offside' 'ref was 100% right' etc. You saw it in this series with the cleanout at the end of the second test. Blaming the Aussie for not coming through the gate, banging on about simulation - it's all distraction from a critical call. You can argue about the ruling, but it's the shithousery around it that left a bad taste in my mouth. Holier than thou, with a plank in the eye.
Media, Woodward, Alastair Campbell, Gats, Farrell all have plenty to answer for, but the end result is a bit shit.
@nzzp said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste
This.
2017 was the start of my disconnection from rugby - there was no 'phew, Lions got away with one at the end' from their fans, it was 'Kieran was offside' 'ref was 100% right' etc. You saw it in this series with the cleanout at the end of the second test. Blaming the Aussie for not coming through the gate, banging on about simulation - it's all distraction from a critical call. You can argue about the ruling, but it's the shithousery around it that left a bad taste in my mouth. Holier than thou, with a plank in the eye.
Media, Woodward, Alastair Campbell, Gats, Farrell all have plenty to answer for, but the end result is a bit shit.
I don't know what it was like in NZ at the time of "that" call but here in the UK it was mainly either "phew, we got away with that one" or just some embarrassed grins. What I do recall though is much frothing at the mouth from NZ, from fans, from pundits, from media and even from some of the guys on here. I know that if the boot had been on the other foot I'd have been spewing too, so I get that, but all the talk of conspiracies, deals and fixes was something to behold.
Re the bolded bit, I'm right with you here, such whining and so on should have no place in the game, but do not pretend that it is one sided. Rassie is the past master here (maybe he has a poster of Woodward in his bedroom)? Schmidt and the Aussie media and pundits have had an ongoing whinge about the Morgan clear out. And we still hear from Kiwis all over the place about that decision in the deciding test in 2017 and of course barnes in teh French game. And don't forget, Deans did score!
We've all got stuff like this going on in our camps.
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@nzzp said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste
This.
2017 was the start of my disconnection from rugby - there was no 'phew, Lions got away with one at the end' from their fans, it was 'Kieran was offside' 'ref was 100% right' etc. You saw it in this series with the cleanout at the end of the second test. Blaming the Aussie for not coming through the gate, banging on about simulation - it's all distraction from a critical call. You can argue about the ruling, but it's the shithousery around it that left a bad taste in my mouth. Holier than thou, with a plank in the eye.
Media, Woodward, Alastair Campbell, Gats, Farrell all have plenty to answer for, but the end result is a bit shit.
I don't know what it was like in NZ at the time of "that" call but here in the UK it was mainly either "phew, we got away with that one" or just some embarrassed grins. What I do recall though is much frothing at the mouth from NZ, from fans, from pundits, from media and even from some of the guys on here. I know that if the boot had been on the other foot I'd have been spewing too, so I get that, but all the talk of conspiracies, deals and fixes was something to behold.
Re the bolded bit, I'm right with you here, such whining and so on should have no place in the game, but do not pretend that it is one sided. Rassie is the past master here (maybe he has a poster of Woodward in his bedroom)? Schmidt and the Aussie media and pundits have had an ongoing whinge about the Morgan clear out. And we still hear from Kiwis all over the place about that decision in the deciding test in 2017 and of course barnes in teh French game. And don't forget, Deans did score!
We've all got stuff like this going on in our camps.
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@Catogrande I don't recall seeing anything quite as monstrous as "the deal" any other time, let alone a reversed decision quite so bungled and in opposition to the laws.
@Bones said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Catogrande I don't recall seeing anything quite as monstrous as "the deal" any other time, let alone a reversed decision quite so bungled and in opposition to the laws.
Amuskelli got close yesterday. Signalling advantage for a knock on and then when Wilson buggered it up by going into touch reversed his knock on decision and gave the BILs a line out. As Wilson was trying to tell him, things might have worked out differently if the Wobbs didn't think they had the advantage. His actual words to the ref were that it was his mistake not theirs. And he was right. Fortunately it did not have the same impact on the game.
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Looking back, I think Farrell only really got the right XV out in first test. Demoting Genge and Tuipolotu and losing McCarthy caused a significant fall off in performance.
@pakman said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
Looking back, I think Farrell only really got the right XV out in first test. Demoting Genge and Tuipolotu and losing McCarthy caused a significant fall off in performance.
That and the strange bench selections in tests 2 & 3.
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@nzzp said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
@Victor-Meldrew said in 2025 British & Irish Lions tour to Australia:
too much gamesmanship and shit-stirring has developed with Lions tours causing a sour taste
This.
2017 was the start of my disconnection from rugby - there was no 'phew, Lions got away with one at the end' from their fans, it was 'Kieran was offside' 'ref was 100% right' etc. You saw it in this series with the cleanout at the end of the second test. Blaming the Aussie for not coming through the gate, banging on about simulation - it's all distraction from a critical call. You can argue about the ruling, but it's the shithousery around it that left a bad taste in my mouth. Holier than thou, with a plank in the eye.
Media, Woodward, Alastair Campbell, Gats, Farrell all have plenty to answer for, but the end result is a bit shit.
I don't know what it was like in NZ at the time of "that" call but here in the UK it was mainly either "phew, we got away with that one" or just some embarrassed grins. What I do recall though is much frothing at the mouth from NZ, from fans, from pundits, from media and even from some of the guys on here. I know that if the boot had been on the other foot I'd have been spewing too, so I get that, but all the talk of conspiracies, deals and fixes was something to behold.
Re the bolded bit, I'm right with you here, such whining and so on should have no place in the game, but do not pretend that it is one sided. Rassie is the past master here (maybe he has a poster of Woodward in his bedroom)? Schmidt and the Aussie media and pundits have had an ongoing whinge about the Morgan clear out. And we still hear from Kiwis all over the place about that decision in the deciding test in 2017 and of course barnes in teh French game. And don't forget, Deans did score!
We've all got stuff like this going on in our camps.
Just finished Ian Foster's book (@His-Bobness recommendation) and he makes some interesting comments on refereeing consistency.
Was told by a referee it was felt the AB's had got off lightly after an AB game had been reviewed by a panel and should have received 4 yellow cards. Lo and behold in the next Test or two the ABs had more decisions going against them - inc. 2 YCs - than was normal.
He's not one to moan, unlike some, and isn't in his book - but makes a valid point about Refs being influenced by peer pressure and it causing serious problems for players and coaches. Subtext was refereeing has become a bit of a mess and the whole structure needs to be looked at for the good of the game.
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Just finished Ian Foster's book (@His-Bobness recommendation) and he makes some interesting comments on refereeing consistency.
Was told by a referee it was felt the AB's had got off lightly after an AB game had been reviewed by a panel and should have received 4 yellow cards. Lo and behold in the next Test or two the ABs had more decisions going against them - inc. 2 YCs - than was normal.
He's not one to moan, unlike some, and isn't in his book - but makes a valid point about Refs being influenced by peer pressure and it causing serious problems for players and coaches. Subtext was refereeing has become a bit of a mess and the whole structure needs to be looked at for the good of the game.
I'd like to say that surprised me but the reality is that referees are now subject to an incredible level of scrutiny with slo-mo footage from God knows how many different camera angles and this backed up by aggressive comments and accusations from some of the coaching teams. It is bound to happen that they react to all this. What the answer is I don't know but I'm guessing that some of those wonderful marketing guys will be telling all the suits that the TMO interference etc all adds to the drama and leads to more bums on seats. In which case we can expect more rather than less.
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I'd like to say that surprised me but the reality is that referees are now subject to an incredible level of scrutiny with slo-mo footage from God knows how many different camera angles and this backed up by aggressive comments and accusations from some of the coaching teams. It is bound to happen that they react to all this. What the answer is I don't know but I'm guessing that some of those wonderful marketing guys will be telling all the suits that the TMO interference etc all adds to the drama and leads to more bums on seats. In which case we can expect more rather than less.
Yep. It isn't the Refs that are the problem, it's the system that they work under.
The point being made is Refs are human and are being influenced by how refs as a group manage games and how they are assessed. Foster's thinks this maybe inadvertently leads to a group-think approach to how certain teams are judged which exacerbates problems and makes their job so much harder.
