All Blacks vs Springboks II
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@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Can you get those stats? It would be also interesting to see how many times Proctor passed for the Canes compared to the ABs. Just totally different gameplans which isn't helping him progress and get comfortable in one of the hardest positions within the team.
RugbyPass these days has player profile pages where you can look at specific stats for each competition (TRC, SRP, NPC, and so on). This is Proctor's page, for example:
Billy Proctor Rugby Bio | News, Stats, Age, Height & Team | RugbyPass
Get Billy Proctor stats, ratings, news, & video on the world's largest rugby player & team database. Click here to get the latest news on Billy Proctor
If you want to know how often he passed for the Hurricanes, you can take his total number of passes during this year's Canes season (73), divide it by his total playing minutes (517) and then multiply by 80 to get a match average.
So he'd get to a number of 11.3 passes per 80 minutes, which is considerably more than what he averages for the ABs during the TRC (5.1 passes per 80 minutes).
Thanks for pulling this data out, just paints a picture that because of the way the ABs have decided to play, Proctor is getting barely any chance to make a proper impact.
Same probably went for Reiko
I'm not anti-Rieko, and would have no problem with him being selected based on his defence - but he has hardly carved it up or shown a great passing game for the Blues over the past 2 seasons - which may of course be a reflection of how they have played too.
The last time I think he was really good was the WC.Billy carved up for the Canes when he was fit this season. But now apparently he's turned to shit. Something isn't right in the camp
Ah yes, but even my grandma would carve up outside Riley Higgins.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Can you get those stats? It would be also interesting to see how many times Proctor passed for the Canes compared to the ABs. Just totally different gameplans which isn't helping him progress and get comfortable in one of the hardest positions within the team.
RugbyPass these days has player profile pages where you can look at specific stats for each competition (TRC, SRP, NPC, and so on). This is Proctor's page, for example:
Billy Proctor Rugby Bio | News, Stats, Age, Height & Team | RugbyPass
Get Billy Proctor stats, ratings, news, & video on the world's largest rugby player & team database. Click here to get the latest news on Billy Proctor
If you want to know how often he passed for the Hurricanes, you can take his total number of passes during this year's Canes season (73), divide it by his total playing minutes (517) and then multiply by 80 to get a match average.
So he'd get to a number of 11.3 passes per 80 minutes, which is considerably more than what he averages for the ABs during the TRC (5.1 passes per 80 minutes).
Thanks for pulling this data out, just paints a picture that because of the way the ABs have decided to play, Proctor is getting barely any chance to make a proper impact.
Same probably went for Reiko
I'm not anti-Rieko, and would have no problem with him being selected based on his defence - but he has hardly carved it up or shown a great passing game for the Blues over the past 2 seasons - which may of course be a reflection of how they have played too.
The last time I think he was really good was the WC.Billy carved up for the Canes when he was fit this season. But now apparently he's turned to shit. Something isn't right in the camp
Ah yes, but even my grandma would carve up outside Riley Higgins.
LOL
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@canefan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Can you get those stats? It would be also interesting to see how many times Proctor passed for the Canes compared to the ABs. Just totally different gameplans which isn't helping him progress and get comfortable in one of the hardest positions within the team.
RugbyPass these days has player profile pages where you can look at specific stats for each competition (TRC, SRP, NPC, and so on). This is Proctor's page, for example:
Billy Proctor Rugby Bio | News, Stats, Age, Height & Team | RugbyPass
Get Billy Proctor stats, ratings, news, & video on the world's largest rugby player & team database. Click here to get the latest news on Billy Proctor
If you want to know how often he passed for the Hurricanes, you can take his total number of passes during this year's Canes season (73), divide it by his total playing minutes (517) and then multiply by 80 to get a match average.
So he'd get to a number of 11.3 passes per 80 minutes, which is considerably more than what he averages for the ABs during the TRC (5.1 passes per 80 minutes).
Thanks for pulling this data out, just paints a picture that because of the way the ABs have decided to play, Proctor is getting barely any chance to make a proper impact.
Same probably went for Reiko
I'm not anti-Rieko, and would have no problem with him being selected based on his defence - but he has hardly carved it up or shown a great passing game for the Blues over the past 2 seasons - which may of course be a reflection of how they have played too.
The last time I think he was really good was the WC.Maybe that speaks to what Joe Schmidt was able to extract from him? The current AB coaches definitely aren't getting the best out of him.
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Btw, for what it's worth - it's mostly just a piece of trivia but still worth noting imo:
The abs try went through 12 players hands. Two front rowers didn't touch it - Samisoni and Lomax. The back that didn't touch it was Proctor.
There was at least one occasion when he could have received a pass in the sequence - from DMac who instead skipped him and I think there was a second occasion when someone could have passed to him but instead took it into contact - maybe Ardie?
Im not offering this as a criticism of him its just interesting that in a 28 pass passage of play that lasts 90 seconds your centre doesn't touch the ball.
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@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Second half thoughts:
Bok 2nd try was error after error from the ABs - first all the back rowers are pinned in a retreating and penalisable scrum,
However, Boks LH ought to have been penalised.
then rangaboi puts a high tackle on Reinach for two penalties in a row. Meanwhile the AB backline have shot out of the line and are busy ruck watching when Kolisi takes the pop. Jordan and Sititi utterly fail to cover this breakout, leaving Jordie Barrett to do the work and leave the right side exposed. After Kolisi is tackled, the numbers aren't bad, just looking inward instead of at the danger on the edge: Kolbe.
Not sure why the AB restarts are so deep. Every time Wiese gets a runup and the Boks get a fairly easy possession.
In the 45th minute BB fields a kick and gives it to McKenzie on the 22 but outside - instead of using Jordie and Carter outside him he kicks it straight away. A minute later they get the ball deep inside their 22 and BB to McKenzie who has to try and find touch from the middle of the field. Not sure if there is any clear plan here.
Vaa'i puts in a stupid shoulder charge and is still doing the dickhead laugh and tough guy act after someone reacts. Hardly the "stoic, grim-faced and noble" AB of mythology. I guess there are some Chiefs fans who love it tho
Sititi really looks half a yard off the pace. Tamaiti Williams looks 5 yards off the pace.
At 50 minutes the handling errors and penalties are pretty even but the turnovers conceded favours the ABs 7-10. As Darryl Kerrigan said: "It's what you do with it".
The space is still there on the edges for the ABs, but jeez the skill execution is letting them down - Jordan's wobbly spiral that misses Proctor (who looked too slow TBH) and lands at Carter's feet being a prime example. Jordan should have gone at or around Libbok like the Wallabies did.
ABs a bit unlucky to get penalised at the scrum just on 54:00 - Bok THP elbow pointing straight down.
Boks LH elbow on ground. Parker points out to Gardner, who is unmoved. That said, looked like Newell was pulling down on LH arm.
OMG 55:00 Bok forward pass missed (AR straight in line)
Saw that!
then Savea turns it over only for BB to faff around. There is no clear direction in his mind - unless there is some magical bullshit involved, and a rampant forward pack, Barrett has no idea. And a chip kick right after it. Lol sack him.
To be fair AB backs had a good period after that with BB varying play well.
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Eddie Jones' brutal one-liner on All Blacks' attack as Barrett 'contradiction' dissected in woeful performance
🗣️ "Now that's a bit of a contradiction because Barrett has played over 100 Tests, but hasn't played a lot of rugby at 10 over the last period of time, and he seems to loathe taking the ball as a first receiver."
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@pakman said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@NTA said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Second half thoughts:
Bok 2nd try was error after error from the ABs - first all the back rowers are pinned in a retreating and penalisable scrum,
However, Boks LH ought to have been penalised.
then rangaboi puts a high tackle on Reinach for two penalties in a row. Meanwhile the AB backline have shot out of the line and are busy ruck watching when Kolisi takes the pop. Jordan and Sititi utterly fail to cover this breakout, leaving Jordie Barrett to do the work and leave the right side exposed. After Kolisi is tackled, the numbers aren't bad, just looking inward instead of at the danger on the edge: Kolbe.
Not sure why the AB restarts are so deep. Every time Wiese gets a runup and the Boks get a fairly easy possession.
In the 45th minute BB fields a kick and gives it to McKenzie on the 22 but outside - instead of using Jordie and Carter outside him he kicks it straight away. A minute later they get the ball deep inside their 22 and BB to McKenzie who has to try and find touch from the middle of the field. Not sure if there is any clear plan here.
Vaa'i puts in a stupid shoulder charge and is still doing the dickhead laugh and tough guy act after someone reacts. Hardly the "stoic, grim-faced and noble" AB of mythology. I guess there are some Chiefs fans who love it tho
Sititi really looks half a yard off the pace. Tamaiti Williams looks 5 yards off the pace.
At 50 minutes the handling errors and penalties are pretty even but the turnovers conceded favours the ABs 7-10. As Darryl Kerrigan said: "It's what you do with it".
The space is still there on the edges for the ABs, but jeez the skill execution is letting them down - Jordan's wobbly spiral that misses Proctor (who looked too slow TBH) and lands at Carter's feet being a prime example. Jordan should have gone at or around Libbok like the Wallabies did.
ABs a bit unlucky to get penalised at the scrum just on 54:00 - Bok THP elbow pointing straight down.
Boks LH elbow on ground. Parker points out to Gardner, who is unmoved. That said, looked like Newell was pulling down on LH arm.
OMG 55:00 Bok forward pass missed (AR straight in line)
Saw that!
then Savea turns it over only for BB to faff around. There is no clear direction in his mind - unless there is some magical bullshit involved, and a rampant forward pack, Barrett has no idea. And a chip kick right after it. Lol sack him.
To be fair AB backs had a good period after that with BB varying play well.
Ah yes, the 57th minute, when Beauden takes it to the line for the first time in the game.
By the 58th they were carving us up again, and they score in the 60th. -
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Mauss said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Canes4life said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Can you get those stats? It would be also interesting to see how many times Proctor passed for the Canes compared to the ABs. Just totally different gameplans which isn't helping him progress and get comfortable in one of the hardest positions within the team.
RugbyPass these days has player profile pages where you can look at specific stats for each competition (TRC, SRP, NPC, and so on). This is Proctor's page, for example:
Billy Proctor Rugby Bio | News, Stats, Age, Height & Team | RugbyPass
Get Billy Proctor stats, ratings, news, & video on the world's largest rugby player & team database. Click here to get the latest news on Billy Proctor
If you want to know how often he passed for the Hurricanes, you can take his total number of passes during this year's Canes season (73), divide it by his total playing minutes (517) and then multiply by 80 to get a match average.
So he'd get to a number of 11.3 passes per 80 minutes, which is considerably more than what he averages for the ABs during the TRC (5.1 passes per 80 minutes).
Thanks for pulling this data out, just paints a picture that because of the way the ABs have decided to play, Proctor is getting barely any chance to make a proper impact.
Thats the nature of test rugby though. Games are naturally tighter. Proctors greatest strength in Super Rugby simply isn't as important in Test Rugby.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
🗣️ "Now that's a bit of a contradiction because Barrett has played over 100 Tests, but hasn't played a lot of rugby at 10 over the last period of time, and he seems to loathe taking the ball as a first receiver."
I realise Eddie is not the same coach any more but what he says here is correct. The out the back stuff ruins one of New Zealand rugby backs best natural strengths - running on to the ball straight and hard. It goes against our natural instinct.
“When you are watching the All Blacks’ games now, on their phase attack, they drop the pass out the back to a playmaker, but it’s a very stationary action, so yes, they they they toss the ball out the back, but it’s to a guy standing still,” he explained.
“So there’s no momentum to capitalise on. You compare that with what Argentina do, where there’s someone coming onto the ball hard"
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
🗣️ "Now that's a bit of a contradiction because Barrett has played over 100 Tests, but hasn't played a lot of rugby at 10 over the last period of time, and he seems to loathe taking the ball as a first receiver."
I realise Eddie is not the same coach any more but what he says here is correct. The out the back stuff ruins one of New Zealand rugby backs best natural strengths - running on to the ball straight and hard. It goes against our natural instinct.
“When you are watching the All Blacks’ games now, on their phase attack, they drop the pass out the back to a playmaker, but it’s a very stationary action, so yes, they they they toss the ball out the back, but it’s to a guy standing still,” he explained.
“So there’s no momentum to capitalise on. You compare that with what Argentina do, where there’s someone coming onto the ball hard"
He and McKenzie are 100% correct they pulled our attack apart very well in that article.
The worry for me we don't seem to see the same picture which means no improvement, we will just carry on and keep getting shut down behind the advantage line which stuffs our forward pack through going backwards most of the game.
Jones nailed it when he said.
"Unfortunately, you don’t get any points for going to the sideline,” he remarked. “So that’s the game, mate.” -
Jezus, maybe backs in NZ are not smarter than forwards after all. How the fuck have we, as in 'backs', not managed to master anything more complicated than run hard and run straight?
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
Jezus, maybe backs in NZ are not smarter than forwards after all. How the fuck have we, as in 'backs', not managed to master anything more complicated than run hard and run straight?
Well that's the attack pattern this coaching team wants. They're just doing what's coached.
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The match was long since over but ardies chip kick in the 78th minute in his own 22 is such a poor reflection.
In that it gifted yet more possession to the Boks in the abs half and in the first place was a show pony move. You don't want to see your loosies attempting chip kicks in their own 22 at all, never mind when you are getting destroyed. And of course they scored to just run extra salt into the wounds.
These chip kicks that the abs attempt at times are just an abomination. Its more or less a reflection of a total lack of imagination on attack - it's just hopeful and speculative play.
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@Crazy-Horse but we often dont even manage the run hard and straight part!
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Was so embarrassing if I'm being honest, Scott and Beauden pathetic the younger players Sititi & Williams look off the pace since returning from injury, Jordan had a shocker, hate to bag on newbie Brodie but just terrible, Jordie is good on defence, I'm unsure about Proctor, Carter had some good touches although defence somewhat shakey, Springboks schooled us and now "Uncle Siya" leaves with the Freedom cup
if we lose the Bledisloe Razor and his useless assistants must go -
@Grooter Yup, Williams has been underwhelming since returning from injury. Looks out of shape and seems to be struggling to breathe when the camera is on him.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Grooter Yup, Williams has been underwhelming since returning from injury. Looks out of shape and seems to be struggling to breathe when the camera is on him.
You just need to look at Williams to know that cardio wouldn’t come as naturally to him as others.
Sititi seems to really have that second year syndrome which he can hopefully overcome.
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@MN5 said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@nonpartizan said in All Blacks vs Springboks II:
@Grooter Yup, Williams has been underwhelming since returning from injury. Looks out of shape and seems to be struggling to breathe when the camera is on him.
You just need to look at Williams to know that cardio wouldn’t come as naturally to him as others.
Sititi seems to really have that second year syndrome which he can hopefully overcome.
His workrate has always been poor
