All Blacks 2025
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@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
think Tamaiti was accredited with tied most missed tackles in that match..
Im sure Ardie would have had more misses accredited if he could keep up
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@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
What about the I can't be fucked even trying to tackle stat, that would be higher for some not mentioned.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
What about the I can't be fucked even trying to tackle stat, that would be higher for some not mentioned.
Yep there were quite a few of those in the last 10.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports Beaudie and Vaa’i both missed 5 tackles and DMac and Williams 4 tackles.
In terms of minutes played to tackles missed,, Williams topped that ratio.
What about the I can't be fucked even trying to tackle stat, that would be higher for some not mentioned.
Yep there were quite a few of those in the last 10.
Was Scott still on then?
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There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
All of them are so used to loosing. The chiefs and blues players are largely mentally shot from constantly choking in the finals when the pressure is on. The highlanders players have zero self belief on how to close out a game. The unorganised chaos of the hurricanes doesn’t lend itself to international rugby.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Super rugby, since 2016/2017 has created a generation of soft players that have prayed on crappy Aussie teams and atrocious South African teams (I don’t care what people say about South Africa leaving super, most of those teams were guaranteed bonus points wins in the last few seasons) only to be thrashed by the one team that could play rugby at a semi-international level.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Well the players certainly respected that legacy last weekend didn’t they! Don’t take the piss, they’re responsible for repeatedly failing to life up to and respect that legacy.
Taylor somewhat, Ardie absolutely not. Roigard is still junior so no, Jordie has had plenty of time and still doesn’t seem to inspire.
Don’t clutch at straws. The players are soft and have a loosing mindset.
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Interesting comments from Jake White on the current AB's issues.
Pretty much puts a lot of it down to NZR not supporting the AB coaching set-up, interfering with choice of assistants and having a blind-spot regarding the loss of coaching talent like Tony Brown.
Jake White claims 'questions to be answered' over Scott Robertson's future after 'one of the poorest win records'
Former Springboks boss Jake White says that the pressure is building on Scott Robertson but hopes that New Zealand Rugby will stick by him.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Well the players certainly respected that legacy last weekend didn’t they! Don’t take the piss, they’re responsible for repeatedly failing to life up to and respect that legacy.
Taylor somewhat, Ardie absolutely not. Roigard is still junior so no, Jordie has had plenty of time and still doesn’t seem to inspire.
Don’t clutch at straws. The players are soft and have a loosing mindset.
You're over egging the pudding a bit. By my count 10 of the 2011 RWC final starting XV had never won Super rugby when that final was played. And for two of the players who had won that was eight years earlier.
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@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
I saw one involvement from him in the last 10mins. That's an "achievement" for someone wearing 7 on his back against the old foe at home.
The sooner this skiving fluffybunny fucks off, the better off we'll be.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Well the players certainly respected that legacy last weekend didn’t they! Don’t take the piss, they’re responsible for repeatedly failing to life up to and respect that legacy.
Taylor somewhat, Ardie absolutely not. Roigard is still junior so no, Jordie has had plenty of time and still doesn’t seem to inspire.
Don’t clutch at straws. The players are soft and have a loosing mindset.
You're over egging the pudding a bit. By my count 10 of the 2011 RWC final starting XV had never won Super rugby when that final was played. And for two of the players who had won that was eight years earlier.
My point isn’t quite that, it’s that the environment from that period has players who knew how to win and could lead. It gave players direction. Now, the team doesn’t have that so it’s really the blind leading the blind
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@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris said in All Blacks 2025:
@bayimports said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
And what the hell does 'beyond noble' mean?
well nobility should not have to tackle it would be beneath them, and I thought Tamaiti went beyond those requirements
Is that why Ardie was walking and not bothering to tackle in the last 20min it was beneath him, that sounds about right.
think Tamaiti was accredited with tied most missed tackles in that match..
Im sure Ardie would have had more misses accredited if he could keep up
At least Tamaiti was trying to get to tackles. Most of the time he was chasing backs or loosies, so no surprises lots of ‘missed’ tackles.
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@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@jimmyb said in All Blacks 2025:
There is clearly no self belief in the team; and half of that is to do with the fact that none of them outside of the crusaders players and Beuden (back in the glory days when he’d come off the bench) have ever won anything.
If you mean nationally or internationally then you are wrong.
What has changed is that we don’t have a leadership team and the on field presence that gives players the confidence to rise above domestic failures and perform on the international stage.
This is a reach. It's the ABs. There is a legacy to work for.
I’m sure we call work hard at our jobs and are/have leaders that know how to steer the team/company through a tough situation. Do any of those players inspire a single ounce of grit or determination?
Yes, Taylor; probably Ardie; Roigard too I suspect. Against England Jordie showed that as well.
Now that we have lost Smith, Retallick, Whitelock, Cane, and Coles, we lost the last of a generation of an era that knew how to lead and think on the pitch. I don’t think we should be under any illusions that that core was what pulled us through the final RWC2023.
5 people (4 forwards) is a reasonably-sized core.
Not sure how to format the replies like you did but:
Either and I’m right. The blues players sneaking in a title when the crusaders had an off season doesn’t count. The low hanging fruit of a Bledisloe Cup and Rugby Championship while South Africa was out? Not sure that counts.
Might as well disregard the Crusaders’ titles and the winning mentality of those players too. The other teams in the competition were all useless and didn’t know how to win.
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Or maybe the Blues won when they had a 10 running the show?
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Each year only one team can win the title , so there’s always going to be a lot of players in our pool that aren’t winners at that level .
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
Each year only one team can win the title , so there’s always going to be a lot of players in our pool that aren’t winners at that level .
Don't feed the troll.
Winning only counts if you're from the Crusaders. It's not a good mindset. Great players are great players, no matter where they come from. AA Ron Smith was insanely competitive, despite playing for an (ahem) small market team. Darren Lockyer (one of the finest league fullbacks in my opinion) was spotted by Wayne Bennett in a team getting humiliated. Mental strength and toughness is either in people or it's not.
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
Each year only one team can win the title , so there’s always going to be a lot of players in our pool that aren’t winners at that level .
Don't feed the troll.
Winning only counts if you're from the Crusaders. It's not a good mindset. Great players are great players, no matter where they come from. AA Ron Smith was insanely competitive, despite playing for an (ahem) small market team. Darren Lockyer (one of the finest league fullbacks in my opinion) was spotted by Wayne Bennett in a team getting humiliated. Mental strength and toughness is either in people or it's not.
Maybe we should get a winning coach from that level
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@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2025:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks 2025:
Each year only one team can win the title , so there’s always going to be a lot of players in our pool that aren’t winners at that level .
Don't feed the troll.
Winning only counts if you're from the Crusaders. It's not a good mindset. Great players are great players, no matter where they come from. AA Ron Smith was insanely competitive, despite playing for an (ahem) small market team. Darren Lockyer (one of the finest league fullbacks in my opinion) was spotted by Wayne Bennett in a team getting humiliated. Mental strength and toughness is either in people or it's not.
Maybe we should get a winning coach from that level
It's fascinating eh. Foster's late run, Razor's struggles and Penney's Super victory this year have reframed some of what - on the face of it - was a remarkable achievement. How much is the machine, how much is the players, how much is the coach?
Still reckon Sir Graham was right: Razor would be a better coach with experience offshore.
