All Blacks 2025
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
The only countries that seem capable to win are SA, NZ, France, England. Ireland had a great team but are surrender monkeys at RWC time. Not sure Australia have the cattle, would take another perfect storm of generational players to do it. It would take a minor miracle for any of the rest to beat out one or two of the top 4 to win the title. Considering no one has actually done it, I think he's talking shit and the comment smacks of the naivety we are seeing with his ABs tenure right now
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
It just dawned on me that Razor is right now getting his international experience with the ABs, so by the time he moves on and starts coaching another side he will be a much better coach for it. Wish it was the other way around, but the ABs are his training ground right now and it's making a mess of our legacy. Losing Schmidt to Aus is such a massive fucking fumble from NZR.
Which teams is Robertson going to win his two World Cup titles with? I can't see anyone half decent giving him a job if things continue with the All Blacks the way they've been going.
Fair, I suspect he'll end up with a gig coaching a club team up north, and if he has any success with them would be able to make a case for taking on a Tier 1 nation. And by that stage you'd expect he would be a much better coach than he is now.
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Chris-B and one of the other losses was that thumping at Twickers when the English midfield of Barritt and Tuilagi ripped us a new one.
TBF the boys all had a serious virus.
Weren’t we one a 18 game winning streak or something as well , not that it makes it ok but you are more inclined to write it off as a bad day when you have been outstanding leading into it .
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@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out. -
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out.I would say the biggest problem with the NZR system is that you end up with dead wood clogging up pathways. Guys like ALB & Reece getting minutes ahead of younger prospects with years ahead of them and way more upside. There's no rugby reason why Reece was picked 4 times before Carter stepped on the paddock this season.
In that sense I can't help thinking that the NZ XV should be a much more used vehicle for giving players a crack to see what they have got. If they scheduled 6 matches or so a year (3 in June/July and 3 in November) and had a really solid connection with the AB coaching staff you would be able to get a much better look at what players can offer in a national team environment. As is I can't help feeling that guys like Love end up languishing in a system that rewards longevity over form and guys like Shaun Stevenson never really get a fair crack.
If you have a central contact system you really have to be an excellent arbiter of talent. You don't have the luxury of letting players slip through your fingers or not getting the best out of the players under contract.
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out.Correct. Robertson would have selected Richie Mo'unga.
The thing that’s puts people off about selecting overseas players is that we’ve seen them come back to New Zealand and play incredibly poorly far too often.
The question there is: why do players based in Japan front up for South Africa but, Ardie Savea, for example, comes back from his sabbatical a complete waste of space for a full season?
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@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out.I think you're way over egging the pudding, when we were completely dominant for the better part of a decade it was under the exact system we have now, and for the majority of that time period the Saffas could select from overseas.
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
I've noticed a distinct whiff of defending Razor by claiming he's not able to chose his own players, when really he just hasn't been up to it coaching-wise so far. Fingers crossed he's learning on the job how to coach international rugby. Plus, he's going to have to hope his little overhyped 10 pays off, as much as I will shout I told you so I'll be gutted if he doesn't pay off and we continue to be relatively shit.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks 2025:
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@pakman said in All Blacks 2025:
Jeremy Paul is quite 'volatile', but his observations, from about 28:00 on, in respect of the 2025 AB squad are very insightful:
One thing that you have to remember is that SA (and now Aus) have more flexibility in making selections, than Robertson.
It’s kinda like Rassie (and now Schmidt as well) can pick players for his club team, that are not actually contracted to his club.
The squad dynamic is different. Players can be moved in and out so easily.
No SA player will ever feel he’s out of the Bok picture. Even if he’s not currently in the squad, living wherever, playing for the Red Diamonds.
A more contemporary type modus operandi.Robertson is more restricted in what he can do.
It’s almost like the AB team for 27WC is already picked and, most important, contracted.
In terms of player selections, he’s committed already. He can only tinker.
I have no doubt, if he could have, he would have picked at least one player who was a member of another club this season.
For NZ, if you aint in the club, you may as well go off-shore, earn some coin, and that’s the end of it.
You are either in, or you're out.Correct. Robertson would have selected Richie Mo'unga.
The thing that’s puts people off about selecting overseas players is that we’ve seen them come back to New Zealand and play incredibly poorly far too often.
The question there is: why do players based in Japan front up for South Africa but, Ardie Savea, for example, comes back from his sabbatical a complete waste of space for a full season?
The Bok’s Japan based players, bar Kolbe, all took some time to get back to the level expected of them after their time in Japan. Even PSDT. And Marx took even longer.
They had to up their game to stay in Rassie’s plans. Maybe the AB players returning from sabbatical don’t feel their place is under enough threat?
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@Nepia it hilarious. No one talks about Mo’unga more on this forum than you.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
Speaking of oldtimers Nonu just scored a try recently. And I'd bet Ryan would choose Shannon.
And not that I ever mentioned it before but someone like Akira could still be handy. -
@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
The Bok’s Japan based players, bar Kolbe, all took some time to get back to the level expected of them after their time in Japan. Even PSDT. And Marx took even longer.
They had to up their game to stay in Rassie’s plans. Maybe the AB players returning from sabbatical don’t feel their place is under enough threat?
One exception, I'd offer, is Jordie.* He came back lean mean and decisive.
Luckily the ace AB backline coaches soon managed to knock that out of him...*Admittedly, not from Japan.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia it hilarious. No one talks about Mo’unga more on this forum than you.
I follow the concept of utu and like to provide balance to Razor, Cantabs and plastic cantabs.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
Speaking of oldtimers Nonu just scored a try recently. And I'd bet Ryan would choose Shannon.
And not that I ever mentioned it before but someone like Akira could still be handy.Yeah, I'd take Akira, but I'm glad the useless shit Shannon is unavailable to Ryan.
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@stodders said in All Blacks 2025:
They had to up their game to stay in Rassie’s plans. Maybe the AB players returning from sabbatical don’t feel their place is under enough threat?
And they sure have upped their game.
The thing is Rassie is picking overseas players all the time now.
A little less than half the current squad.
No way you can say it doesn't work.
They are in and out of the squad constantly.
The whole set up is now different.
The only time he doesn't select outside, is when the international windows are closed.
The SA squad is operating like an international club team.
And it'll remain this way, because the international game is where the real rugby money is.NZ is just picking from SRP.
And SRP is not that special, and probably no better prep for Test rugby than any other domestic comp.
If some foreign club wants to subsidise an ABs pay packet, NZR should be all for it. -
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
I think you're way over egging the pudding, when we were completely dominant for the better part of a decade it was under the exact system we have now, and for the majority of that time period the Saffas could select from overseas.
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
I've noticed a distinct whiff of defending Razor by claiming he's not able to chose his own players, when really he just hasn't been up to it coaching-wise so far. Fingers crossed he's learning on the job how to coach international rugby. Plus, he's going to have to hope his little overhyped 10 pays off, as much as I will shout I told you so I'll be gutted if he doesn't pay off and we continue to be relatively shit.
You said it.
We were completely dominant.
But times change, and the old thinking and way of doing things is not cutting it anymore.
Happens everywhere in society, all the time.
It’s all relative, but I’d say we are maybe not quite as good as we were, but we’re still darned good.
Having just said that, but were we really that good.
We missed out on a several WCs when we were favourites.
Ran into SF/F buzz saws several times, and our game couldn’t withstand the pressure.
What’s changed is the other guys have got better, they’ve figured us out, and moved on.There are very few players overseas that would be picked now, exactly because of the current restriction.
I’d say if the restriction was dropped, the make up of the AB squad would look very like the SA squad very quickly.Not defending Robertson, but I can see he’s been worked into a corner selection wise.
Probably of his own making.
Him (assuming him) and NZR signed a lot of veteran ABs, thru to 27 [assuming again].
They are all players who have not been dominant at all for the last 7 years (No 1 ranked for only 98 days days in that 7 year period, and no WCs).
Players who are constantly being whinged about (rightly) on this site.
Robertson is pretty much locked himself into the current squad, thru to 27.
This is not the case with Rassie; he can chop and change, and pick who ever the fuck he wants.
And the Aussies are moving in this direction too. -
NZ Origin Players with pro contracts Overseas in 2024.
The second column are those who are no longer eligible for NZ.
Altho maybe not permanently, I notice Rassie actually selected an ex Ireland player this season. He has absolutely no shame.That is an awful lot of professional rugby players eliminated from the selection process.
And I'd also comment, they would all be available, if asked! -
@mohikamo said in All Blacks 2025:
@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
I think you're way over egging the pudding, when we were completely dominant for the better part of a decade it was under the exact system we have now, and for the majority of that time period the Saffas could select from overseas.
Aside from that one (overhyped) player, there's no one overseas that would be picked. The pro select from overseas brigade always bring up some geriatrics/not up for test rugby anymore (e.g. A Smith and BBBR) or guys who have been playing for Ireland for the better part of a decade and try and use them as examples.
I've noticed a distinct whiff of defending Razor by claiming he's not able to chose his own players, when really he just hasn't been up to it coaching-wise so far. Fingers crossed he's learning on the job how to coach international rugby. Plus, he's going to have to hope his little overhyped 10 pays off, as much as I will shout I told you so I'll be gutted if he doesn't pay off and we continue to be relatively shit.
You said it.
We were completely dominant.
But times change, and the old thinking and way of doing things is not cutting it anymore.
Happens everywhere in society, all the time.
It’s all relative, but I’d say we are maybe not quite as good as we were, but we’re still darned good.
Having just said that, but were we really that good.
We missed out on a several WCs when we were favourites.
Ran into SF/F buzz saws several times, and our game couldn’t withstand the pressure.
What’s changed is the other guys have got better, they’ve figured us out, and moved on.There are very few players overseas that would be picked now, exactly because of the current restriction.
I’d say if the restriction was dropped, the make up of the AB squad would look very like the SA squad very quickly.Not defending Robertson, but I can see he’s been worked into a corner selection wise.
Probably of his own making.
Him (assuming him) and NZR signed a lot of veteran ABs, thru to 27 [assuming again].
They are all players who have not been dominant at all for the last 7 years (No 1 ranked for only 98 days days in that 7 year period, and no WCs).
Players who are constantly being whinged about (rightly) on this site.
Robertson is pretty much locked himself into the current squad, thru to 27.
This is not the case with Rassie; he can chop and change, and pick who ever the fuck he wants.
And the Aussies are moving in this direction too.I honestly think the problem with Razor is that he takes too long to figure things out.
The French had the better of the aerial duels in that series but one of the better ABs at dealing with the high balls was Love in Hamilton - who never played again for a few tests. Meanwhile he kept picking players like Reece and Rieko who can't get the job done under the high ball which eventually culminated in the disaster class of the second Argentina test.
If he was a more astute selector and coach he would have been fixing that high ball problem long before it but him in the ass.
Same thing goes for the lineout. Without Taylor it was a disaster in Hamilton but for Wellington Bok test he once again had McAlister in the bench and lol and behold the lineout was dog shit again. Didn't start Holland in that test either which may have helped matters.
Razor just makes too many obvious errors and doesn't seem to be intelligent enough to be fix things before they become massive problems. It literally takes massive failure before he rethinks his failing strategies.
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@nonpartizan said in All Blacks 2025:
I honestly think the problem with Razor is that he takes too long to figure things out.
Haha
Yeah
When it comes to thinking, he is definitely nothing like Rassie!
