All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II
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Still catching up on the thread, but my biggest concern with Tupea is they "ALB" him, constantly chopping and changing between 12 and 13 (and sometimes wing) depending on the needs of the team, instead of letting him really settle in one position. If they're going to play him at 13, they need to do that 100% of the time from now or he'll never improve defensively as that will take time for him to learn.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Still catching up on the thread, but my biggest concern with Tupea is they "ALB" him, constantly chopping and changing between 12 and 13 (and sometimes wing) depending on the needs of the team, instead of letting him really settle in one position. If they're going to play him at 13, they need to do that 100% of the time from now or he'll never improve defensively as that will take time for him to learn.
Agreed. No other centres are putting their hands up ( someone in another thread mentioned Ennor and McLeod, yuck )
Tupaea has the upside to perform there consistently.
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I also still think BB and DMac are much of a muchness, and by far the most influential change in the backline is having Roigard back at 9. Ratima was really poor this season, and Christie is, well, Christie. We are so reliant on Roigard it's not even funny.
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And I really, really want to see a trio of:
- Vaa'i
- Dalton
- Lakai
Bench: Ardie
That would be by far the best use of our talents in NZ right now IMO. Size, height, work rate and threat ball in hand off the back of the scrum, with an absolute weapon on the bench to go nuts in the 2nd 40.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
I also still think BB and DMac are much of a muchness, and by far the most influential change in the backline is having Roigard back at 9. Ratima was really poor this season, and Christie is, well, Christie. We are so reliant on Roigard it's not even funny.
Ratima has steadily gone backwards for a little while now. He's now just racking up caps basically because he's on the bench so the coaching team feel obliged to put him out there for the last 7 mins.
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@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Not so sure. Ioane was all class in defense and hustle on the Aussies when the All Blacks were turning the screws and mounting the pressure on them keeping them pinned in their own half.. Tupaea while great on attack allowed them easy metres out wide and at times in the first half hour it looked like they could rip us a new one like the Sprinkboks did. Defense and pressuring other teams into mistakes to turn over possession is just such a critical part of test rugby now and Reiko is the best exponent of this at centre in NZ. It is something we have been shit at all season until the final 20 of this game.
I personally would like to see Tupaea at 12 and Ioane at 13 and Jordie Barrett the only one who looks assured under the high ball at 15. Jordan to the wing and massive practise on catching high balls. I just can't see us ever beating the boks consistently with him at the back catching less than 50% of high balls.
- Roigard
- Anyone other than Beauden or Damien
- Leroy Carter/Caleb Clarke
- Quinn Tuaaea
- Reiko Ioane
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett
reserve Hotham/Ratima
reserve. Mackenzie
reserve. Leicester FaingaʻanukuAgree with this.
Jordan just isnt nailing it as a test fullback. He takes so many poor options hes better suited to right wing where he has less tactical influence - especially with our 10 options also taking poor options.
100% and have been saying that for a while. Jordan is a great winger but not a great fullback.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
I also still think BB and DMac are much of a muchness, and by far the most influential change in the backline is having Roigard back at 9. Ratima was really poor this season, and Christie is, well, Christie. We are so reliant on Roigard it's not even funny.
Ratima off the bench was ok though I thought?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Not so sure. Ioane was all class in defense and hustle on the Aussies when the All Blacks were turning the screws and mounting the pressure on them keeping them pinned in their own half.. Tupaea while great on attack allowed them easy metres out wide and at times in the first half hour it looked like they could rip us a new one like the Sprinkboks did. Defense and pressuring other teams into mistakes to turn over possession is just such a critical part of test rugby now and Reiko is the best exponent of this at centre in NZ. It is something we have been shit at all season until the final 20 of this game.
I personally would like to see Tupaea at 12 and Ioane at 13 and Jordie Barrett the only one who looks assured under the high ball at 15. Jordan to the wing and massive practise on catching high balls. I just can't see us ever beating the boks consistently with him at the back catching less than 50% of high balls.
- Roigard
- Anyone other than Beauden or Damien
- Leroy Carter/Caleb Clarke
- Quinn Tuaaea
- Reiko Ioane
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett
reserve Hotham/Ratima
reserve. Mackenzie
reserve. Leicester FaingaʻanukuAgree with this.
Jordan just isnt nailing it as a test fullback. He takes so many poor options hes better suited to right wing where he has less tactical influence - especially with our 10 options also taking poor options.
100% and have been saying that for a while. Jordan is a great winger but not a great fullback.
You'd think they could hire Jane or someone who knew what they were doing to help him polish his rough edges?
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
I also still think BB and DMac are much of a muchness,
Hard disagree. They both make mistakes. McKenzie passes better and runs onto the ball - that makes zero difference to his highlight reel, but makes everybody outside him better. He's also in general a longer clearance and a better goal kicker.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Not so sure. Ioane was all class in defense and hustle on the Aussies when the All Blacks were turning the screws and mounting the pressure on them keeping them pinned in their own half.. Tupaea while great on attack allowed them easy metres out wide and at times in the first half hour it looked like they could rip us a new one like the Sprinkboks did. Defense and pressuring other teams into mistakes to turn over possession is just such a critical part of test rugby now and Reiko is the best exponent of this at centre in NZ. It is something we have been shit at all season until the final 20 of this game.
I personally would like to see Tupaea at 12 and Ioane at 13 and Jordie Barrett the only one who looks assured under the high ball at 15. Jordan to the wing and massive practise on catching high balls. I just can't see us ever beating the boks consistently with him at the back catching less than 50% of high balls.
- Roigard
- Anyone other than Beauden or Damien
- Leroy Carter/Caleb Clarke
- Quinn Tuaaea
- Reiko Ioane
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett
reserve Hotham/Ratima
reserve. Mackenzie
reserve. Leicester FaingaʻanukuAgree with this.
Jordan just isnt nailing it as a test fullback. He takes so many poor options hes better suited to right wing where he has less tactical influence - especially with our 10 options also taking poor options.
100% and have been saying that for a while. Jordan is a great winger but not a great fullback.
Who is better at 15, and which winger would you drop?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
I also still think BB and DMac are much of a muchness,
Hard disagree. They both make mistakes. McKenzie passes better and runs onto the ball - that makes zero difference to his highlight reel, but makes everybody outside him better. He's also in general a longer clearance and a better goal kicker.
BB was very good in France tests 1 and 2, ran and passed well and the backline looked good. Jordie was superb outside of him as well, but then BB's form seemed to drop away after that. DMac's form is also historically very up and down, sometimes looks very good and assured, sometimes takes a lot of poor options and looks like a headless chicken. For what it's worth, I have maintained that I would have selected DMac for the EOYT and this year as well as he has a better kicking game, but the gap between our HBs and Roigard is a LOT bigger than any perceived or real gap between DMac and BB.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Still catching up on the thread, but my biggest concern with Tupea is they "ALB" him, constantly chopping and changing between 12 and 13 (and sometimes wing) depending on the needs of the team, instead of letting him really settle in one position. If they're going to play him at 13, they need to do that 100% of the time from now or he'll never improve defensively as that will take time for him to learn.
Are you talking about the Chiefs because that’s where he has played both centre and 2nd 5. Unless Jordie is moved to fullback or rested (the latter seemingly unlikely) he has 2nd 5 down.
They’ve given QT a start and it was at 13. I don’t see it as a major issue. He may yet settle into 12 in the longer term. Could be a Nonu path where he started at 13 for the ABs despite being a winger provincially. Played centre and then after Umaga retired and Lucky left overseas, he took the 12 jersey.
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@Richie8-7 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Read back the thread from during the match. I guess this is where the always unhappy, complain about everything, bitter old bastards who used to call Radio Sport hang out these days?
For the record, I'm still middle aged (just about) and I have never called Radio Sport.
It's the Silverfern.
None of us have Knighthoods for service to New Zealand Rugby, very few of us are paid to play, coach, commentate or analyse the game, but that won't stop us voicing our opinions about OUR game and OUR team. We love it here.
Go Black!
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
I also still think BB and DMac are much of a muchness,
Hard disagree. They both make mistakes. McKenzie passes better and runs onto the ball - that makes zero difference to his highlight reel, but makes everybody outside him better. He's also in general a longer clearance and a better goal kicker.
BB was very good in France tests 1 and 2, ran and passed well and the backline looked good. Jordie was superb outside of him as well, but then BB's form seemed to drop away after that. DMac's form is also historically very up and down, sometimes looks very good and assured, sometimes takes a lot of poor options and looks like a headless chicken. For what it's worth, I have maintained that I would have selected DMac for the EOYT and this year as well as he has a better kicking game, but the gap between our HBs and Roigard is a LOT bigger than any perceived or real gap between DMac and BB.
France C.
BB absolutely needs a Roigard, as he does not even pose a theoretical threat to the defence. Combine that with a 9 who doesn't run, and it is incredibly easy to defend against. That would be workable if he were a Grant Fox, but he is not.
Threats at 9 and 10 make everybody else's life easier. -
@Richie8-7 said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Read back the thread from during the match. I guess this is where the always unhappy, complain about everything, bitter old bastards who used to call Radio Sport hang out these days? What an embarrassment to read.
Nothing wrong with the whinging I feel. We support the ABs and expectations are high and always will be. If we start accepting mediocrity we become mediocre. Long may the whinging/we can always do better continue, unless we wanna become like the Wallabies?
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@African-Monkey it ain't about us accepting anything, it's the players, coaches and NZR who shouldn't be accepting mediocrity, but have to think they all have to a degree the past 4 or 5 years.
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@ACT-Crusader Tupaea hasn't started at centre for the Chiefs for several years. I think he only started there in his first and maybe second season. I looked this up a while ago on one of those random stats websites.
I was pretty surprised they picked him to play there and was pretty apprehensive about it - delighted he made a good fist.
I think Jordie is nailed on at second five and Tavatavanawai might be a handy back-up - with the likes of ALB, Havili and AJ Lam also floating in the background.
I'm less enamoured with our centre options. Looks like they're easing Rieko out. Not sure ALB is up to playing tests there anymore, and Billy had a pretty mixed time.
QT - best performance by a centre during Razor's reign. If he keeps that form I'd like to see him persisted with there exclusively. That IF is of course significant.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
QT - best performance by a centre during Razor's reign. If he keeps that form I'd like to see him persisted with there exclusively. That IF is of course significant.
Not tempted by LF at 13?
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@brodean said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
@tubbyj said in All Blacks vs Wallabies Bledisloe II:
Not so sure. Ioane was all class in defense and hustle on the Aussies when the All Blacks were turning the screws and mounting the pressure on them keeping them pinned in their own half.. Tupaea while great on attack allowed them easy metres out wide and at times in the first half hour it looked like they could rip us a new one like the Sprinkboks did. Defense and pressuring other teams into mistakes to turn over possession is just such a critical part of test rugby now and Reiko is the best exponent of this at centre in NZ. It is something we have been shit at all season until the final 20 of this game.
I personally would like to see Tupaea at 12 and Ioane at 13 and Jordie Barrett the only one who looks assured under the high ball at 15. Jordan to the wing and massive practise on catching high balls. I just can't see us ever beating the boks consistently with him at the back catching less than 50% of high balls.
- Roigard
- Anyone other than Beauden or Damien
- Leroy Carter/Caleb Clarke
- Quinn Tuaaea
- Reiko Ioane
- Will Jordan
- Jordie Barrett
reserve Hotham/Ratima
reserve. Mackenzie
reserve. Leicester FaingaʻanukuAgree with this.
Jordan just isnt nailing it as a test fullback. He takes so many poor options hes better suited to right wing where he has less tactical influence - especially with our 10 options also taking poor options.
100% and have been saying that for a while. Jordan is a great winger but not a great fullback.
welcome to the bandwagon with @Bones and me.
He's offensively brilliant, but like Masaga that doesn't make him a test player.
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Re watched the game this morning with the young fulla.
Here are some observations, with the emotion removed.
Mostly impressed with the forwards effort, except the lineout, what an absolute nightmare. It’s gotta be the game plan, but I’d love to know why our forwards always receive the ball while they’re standing still. We should be punching onto the ball with a god damn head of steam up, get angry FFS.
Probably an ongoing issue, but we were unable to take full advantage of line breaks like we used to. Not sure what it is, but our support runners were either too far behind the play, or the last pass/option taking was not great.
As good as Roigard is, maybe he’s trying to do too much, as he gets a bit lost at times.
The 10 debate. DMac while not perfect, brings a better all round game than BB. He engaged the defensive line, and generally his passing was good, minus the couple of bad ones last night. And he doesn’t always kick the ball away. On that, there was waaay less box kicking than we’ve seen. Fucking yipppeeeeeee!!! But still too many defensive bombs.
The majority of our backline play was the best I’ve seen for quite some time. Yes there were errors with some bad passes or positioning, but we were actually getting the ball in a bit of space and creating some confusion in the defensive line. Coincidence with the change at 10… hmmmm….?
Numbers 11-14 all showing some serious impact with ball in hand.
Midfield, wow that combo was excellent. Best we’ve seen in years. Surely Tupaea will get a run of games at 13 in the northern tour..
Cater, has speed to burn but also punches well above his weight in the physicality stakes. LF impressed, hard to tackle and always keen for work. I think will be best used to provide impact off the pine at centre or wing.
Our defence was pretty good.
We seemed to be squeezing our d line in tight within the 15m lines, and not letting them go through us. They did exploit the space out wider a couple of times, but our wingers of last defenders were usually pretty good at closing that space quickly.One thing I’d really like to see is someone who just smashes blokes for fun, like a Jerry Collins or Jerome Kaino. Feels like forever since we’ve had someone who does that with any consistency.
Leadership needs some serious work. We currently lack tactical awareness and rugby smarts in a lot of the big moments. Though in saying that, we finished the game well, so hopefully we’ve turned a bit of a corner in that department rather than it being an anomaly.
So while not perfect, there was plenty to like in that performance.
Now for some consistency.
Big NH tour coming up… when’s the squad named? And how many are we taking?
