All Blacks 2025
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
- They were never going to pick him once he signed in Japan.
They picked Cane and Perenara.
Yes, but Cane is a 100 cap All Black captain and Perenara has been around for 10 years as an ever-present. In a team that had been badly shorn of experience. And TJ didn't announce he'd signed overseas until after the AB season had started and he'd been picked.
Akira had a chequered AB career and hadn't even made the team for RWC.
Is there not an obvious difference?
One was the first player to get a red card in an RWC final and the other one wasn't.
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@brodean said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
- They were never going to pick him once he signed in Japan.
They picked Cane and Perenara.
Yes, but Cane is a 100 cap All Black captain and Perenara has been around for 10 years as an ever-present. In a team that had been badly shorn of experience. And TJ didn't announce he'd signed overseas until after the AB season had started and he'd been picked.
Akira had a chequered AB career and hadn't even made the team for RWC.
Is there not an obvious difference?
One was the first player to get a red card in an RWC final and the other one wasn't.
Ouchee
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
How did Akira in particular go in that game? My memory was he had a strong game that day and that it was Choat who was playing for an unavailable Papalii who was the loose forward who got outplayed.
I guess my frustration is this:
Akira is clearly a huge talent which Razor has known about since he coached him in the NZ U20s
Razor didn't show a great deal of interest in Akira and working with him.
Vern Cotter in one season managed to get Akira firing on all cylinders including the final where Akira put in an incredible shift at 6 showing everything we are looking for at a 6 (go have a look at 2024 final to see how well Akira played).
There is a general lack of size and power in NZ loose forwards - mostly dominated by hybrid loosies who do a bit of everything.
Now we have a situation where Razor has come out and publicly stated that "test rugby is a game for big men" and we are crying out for more size and power in the forwards yet at the same time I don't believe Razor has truly turned over every stone and we are paying the price.
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@KiwiMurph I'm not going to disagree with much of that.
Except, we have no real idea about the discussions Akira and Razor might have had.
Unless they tell us, it's all in the realm of fantasy.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph But, doesn't all that pre-suppose that Akira was going to be a compelling selection?
A week or so before he announced he was off, the Blues went down to Christchurch and lost to the worst Crusaders in living memory. What if they'd shit the bed in the 2024 semi-final as per 2023?
I'm honestly not trying to troll you or anything.
I just don't see the logic.
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
I'm in the Akira leaving is on Akira camp - but that was a Blues side with the foot off the gas, and nowhere near as bad a Crusaders team as you're saying (on the day, the season was abject).
Notably their three best players in Blackadder, Taylor & Williams, and their 10 in Burke all playing - and all of whom played bugger all due to injury that season.So the Blues lost by 2 points away time the Crusaders with a few key Blues players out. Big deal.
This is basically the same Crusaders side that won the title a year later.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
And I suspect it's because you guys are looking at what his career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.
Nah.
I suspect it's because Ryan et al are looking at what Shannon's career could have been and I'm looking at what his career was.Hot take, Akira played better in the ABs than Shannon. He's over a year younger. And he stood up to drunk bogan halfbacks without collecting restraining orders.
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@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Have I completely misunderstood that ENS is buggering off?
There was chat he was going to France but he has signed with the Chiefs for another year. Last year I thought he was the second best left winger behind Caleb Clarke. It was unfortunate he got injured this year. I expect he plays mainly at Fullback for the Chiefs next year and could be an improvement on Stevenson with better all-round skills.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@KiwiMurph I'm not going to disagree with much of that.
Except, we have no real idea about the discussions Akira and Razor might have had.
Unless they tell us, it's all in the realm of fantasy.
My view is that given how much time Razor has had in the role, the noises he and Ryan have made about other players and that Akira didn't last long after Ryan took over says all you need to know about what the regime thinks of Akira.
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@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
How have we got this far into conspiracy and not brought up that Razor's number 1 guy decided to fuck off after Razor got the top gig?
He did.
It's quite extraordinary that we weren't able to retain the number one "must have".
But, Richie is no moron.
He's realised that he can have his cake and eat it too. He can be the Six Million Dollar Man and probably waltz back in and helm the ABs at the World Cup.
Because while the NZR Board are rattling their sabres about defectors doing their time in NPC, they've already bent a bit on letting Big Leicester back into the fold as soon as a slightly adverse wind has blown. A little bit of an example.
But, Richie isn't going to be some minimum wage Mofo. He's going to be a primary finacial asset on top dollar.
I expect the lesson to be that if you want to fuck off overseas for a couple of years, you'd better be extremely indispensable.
Frizz can sit out the South African tour to pay the price.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@African-Monkey yeah was Ice, he had played 8 games for Auckland (according to Wiki)
Rokocoko debuted at both super and ABs in 2003
Mitchell and Deans definitely picked Joe Rok on potential given in that super season he wasn’t a permanent starter with Rupeni and Dougie there plus Mils and Rico.
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@mikedogz said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Have I completely misunderstood that ENS is buggering off?
There was chat he was going to France but he has signed with the Chiefs for another year. Last year I thought he was the second best left winger behind Caleb Clarke. It was unfortunate he got injured this year. I expect he plays mainly at Fullback for the Chiefs next year and could be an improvement on Stevenson with better all-round skills.
Awesome, really rate him and think his game would translate well to test rugby. Shades of Mils...
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@African-Monkey yeah was Ice, he had played 8 games for Auckland (according to Wiki)
Rokocoko debuted at both super and ABs in 2003
Mitchell and Deans definitely picked Joe Rok on potential given in that super season he wasn’t a permanent starter with Rupeni and Dougie there plus Mils and Rico.
Super Rugby in 2003 was a great watch
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Rupeni...
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@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@mikedogz said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Have I completely misunderstood that ENS is buggering off?
There was chat he was going to France but he has signed with the Chiefs for another year. Last year I thought he was the second best left winger behind Caleb Clarke. It was unfortunate he got injured this year. I expect he plays mainly at Fullback for the Chiefs next year and could be an improvement on Stevenson with better all-round skills.
Awesome, really rate him and think his game would translate well to test rugby. Shades of Mils...
Not certain he's big enough to be an international fullback but could definitely make an impact on the wing.
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@Mr-Fish said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@mikedogz said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Bones said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
Have I completely misunderstood that ENS is buggering off?
There was chat he was going to France but he has signed with the Chiefs for another year. Last year I thought he was the second best left winger behind Caleb Clarke. It was unfortunate he got injured this year. I expect he plays mainly at Fullback for the Chiefs next year and could be an improvement on Stevenson with better all-round skills.
Awesome, really rate him and think his game would translate well to test rugby. Shades of Mils...
Not certain he's big enough to be an international fullback but could definitely make an impact on the wing.
Cripes, if being a decently solid, 6 ft bloke doesn't make you big enough for an international fullback, there's going to be a fair few blokes going redundant or shifting to wing soon. Who's going to be left?
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@African-Monkey yeah was Ice, he had played 8 games for Auckland (according to Wiki)
Rokocoko debuted at both super and ABs in 2003
Mitchell and Deans definitely picked Joe Rok on potential given in that super season he wasn’t a permanent starter with Rupeni and Dougie there plus Mils and Rico.
Yes he was, Doug mostly played fullback and Mils mostly played centre. I think Joe had the most appearances of all the wings and played the finals. Rico was on the bench the most.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ShaquilleOatmeal said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
- They were never going to pick him once he signed in Japan.
They picked Cane and Perenara.
Yes, but Cane is a 100 cap All Black captain and Perenara has been around for 10 years as an ever-present. In a team that had been badly shorn of experience. And TJ didn't announce he'd signed overseas until after the AB season had started and he'd been picked.
Akira had a chequered AB career and hadn't even made the team for RWC.
Is there not an obvious difference?
Akira's best rugby was in front of him..?
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@Nepia said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks & All Blacks XV EOYT Squads 2025:
@African-Monkey yeah was Ice, he had played 8 games for Auckland (according to Wiki)
Rokocoko debuted at both super and ABs in 2003
Mitchell and Deans definitely picked Joe Rok on potential given in that super season he wasn’t a permanent starter with Rupeni and Dougie there plus Mils and Rico.
Yes he was, Doug mostly played fullback and Mils mostly played centre. I think Joe had the most appearances of all the wings and played the finals. Rico was on the bench the most.
Maybe my memory is hazy, but what I do remember was a match I went to whilst in NZ at Okara Park against Qld and he didn’t start.
Being 19 yo he certainly was showing potential in a backline that had all sorts of talent.
