All Blacks 2025
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@gt12 not to mention at super they play these players in ways that utlise thier skillset, whereas at Int we seem to be going through the motions, not enough weights, not enough speedwork, not enough smarts, struggle street.
SA are where we used to be, we would find ways to win ins spite of the hand we were dealt (mostly) now, we are finding ways to lose when we get ourselves in position to win (mostly)
That comes back to identity > strategy > tactics in alignment.
The comment was made above that our attack looks too structured and as you said, it looks like the players are going through the motions.
From the outside, that indicates that we have a problem in the first two of those three ideas above, and then we see problems with game tactics - I think that is why we don't see Dmac at 10. I think last year when he looked OK, we were playing like the chiefs in the best and worst ways, and I'm not sure that those were the directions he was meant to be paying under. His stupidity in 10 minutes or so against Australia when he blew a try I think was the final nail in the coffin, but that's only supposition.
All in all, my guess is that the players either don't agree with the identity > strategy of the team, or don't understand it.
And that raises a good question, because in a forum os rugby geeks, can anyone clearly summarize, what is this team's identity?
The Blues have a clear identity based around ball running around the ruck, which suits their loosies and tighties.
The Chiefs are a fast-ball side that uses powerful runners off 10, which might be one reason why these 6s look much better at the level below because that is miles away from how they are being used at the ABs.
To me, the Saders are the most like this team - but I'm not quite sure how I would describe them in comparison to others - they wear you down. They are patient, relying on set piece and territory. Their basic attack is based around getting to the outside, going side to side until they find their opportunity, which they'll exploit. If that doesn't work, they'll kick it away and back their defense.
So, for me, the second question is whether the factors which make the Saders better at Super rugby translate across to International rugby? That seems to be where Razor is stuck - getting the players to play like that, and whether or not that is a successful formula.
Two different questions, in my mind.
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@Nepia said in All Blacks 2025:
You think Flanders is too small? He's bigger than our current loose forwards aside from Parker. He's too big for our current coaches.
It's confusingly written but I thought they were referring to Lio Willie.
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(broken record) The most dominant loose trio we have had at Super level in the last 5 years is Akira Ioane, Dalton Papali'i and Hoskins Sotutu, and it's not even close. Not one of those players have had a look in due to this weird fucking anti-Blues bias that these idiot Crusaders coaches have. Then we wonder why our loosies get smacked around every test. These morons made their bed, they can lie in it now. A loss to Wales is needed so we can move these clowns on and try and install professional coaches that don't act like fucking children when selecting their teams.
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Problems persist everywhere, and i believe the thing that damns this coaching group is their nailed-on selections are huge problems.
Jordan is not a fullbacks asshole. All our best fullbacks have been at their best when they can bring other players in to the game. Mils was a genius at linking up with his wingers. Ben Smith made constant smart decisions creating for others. Jordan can't pass for shit, has no vision outside is admittedly freakish ability go be where needed. Doesn't exactly kick well either. Should go back to the wing, and a real fullback found.
Wingers? We are churning through them, none are setting the world on fire. But in their defense, do we do anything to create them opportunities to shine? The structure also appears to have them glued to touchlines waiting for the ball rather than turning up in unexpected areas to create mismatches.
The midfield continues to be a mess. Proctor has been given the whole year and has done nothing with it. Jordie is nailed in to the 12 shirt, and appears to run our attack, which is an issue because he has a terrible passing game. In fact all his highlights this year are admittedly amazing scramble defense plays. QT looks good but is prone to a terrible defensive read. Calls for Leicester to come in to the midfield, but if is going to carry the ball like that looking for offloads no thank you. Again, these guys are victims of an attacking structure that does not appear to be set up to make the most of them.
The issues at 10 have been done to death. Another Barrett is nailed in to the jersey despite a complete inability to kick well, pass well, engage defenders, run the team, or even defend well (a lowlight reel of bad Barrett covering tackle attempts in conceded tries would be funny to watch).
Halfback, Roigard has become our best player despite being ponderous getting the ball out. Has to kick because the 10 and 15 can't do it for shit. At least takes the game on.
The loose forwards do my head in. Led by the enigmatic, "close to best player in the world" Ardie Savea who flat out refuses to do the required shit work, and can not put a shot on to save his life. Lakai tries his guts out but is shoehorned in to a role he is ill-suited to. The 6 jersey continues to be empty. Sititi is far too much like Savea and Lakai. They are a weird mix of great athletes who are not a menace to other teams ball, aren't big enough to dominate collisions on either side of the ball, and do not generate quick ball for us. The traditional strength of NZ rugby has become our weakness.
Lock is fucking good except the guy with the worst form of all of them (and if we are real for a minute, even at his peak Scott had a limited ceiling) is the fucking captain and has to play.
Props? Our scrum has been no more than ok all year. They can't carry for shit. And for some fucking reason, we are using them as ball players?? Personnel are there i think, but the use?
Cody T has had yet another great year, Sami T has not, but he gets fuck all rugby and yet we expect him to just come on and carve on 10-15 minutes a fortnight??Not only are the selections fucked, but what we do on the field is fucking terrible as well. Look at how England defended on the weekend, sprinting forward off the line, hard accurate tackling. We sit on our fucking heels and make soaking tackles. And even then we miss them. England went through us and around us with relative ease on the weekend. They are not alone this year. Even in the tests they lost, Australia made us look stupid on several occassions.
With the ball we play meaningless phase after meaningless phase. There is no intent in the carry. Slow ball, static ball carriers, out the back pass, wide pass. All eaten up by line speed and an easy drift. Then we kick it away, generally too deep because we are not accurate. We kick an enormous amount of ball away with no real intent other than getting as far from our try line as possible.The final damning thing for this coaching group is, I could have written this post 12 months ago. We are not growing, we are not fixing problems. Yes selections are changing, mainly through injury, and on the fringes (oh we'll change the winger and a blindside). The core problems are locked in.
Fuck these guys
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Razor apologists, if any still remain, will point at the win-loss column and say "well we can't win them all" and ignore the fact that France C pushed us in the middle of the year, and a full strength France would have beaten us.
The South Africa loss was actually a belting at home.
The Eden Park Bledisloe relied on Australia making a couple of monumental errors and Roigard being the best player on the park. The 2nd Bledisloe Aus were all over us and one momentum killing penalty that rubbed out a try changed that whole game. And Australia are shit.
England dominated us on Saturday, we gave up 25 straight points FFS. And the ABs quit, the vision of the complete lack of desperation on that last try was damning. That's the 2nd time this year that there is clear evidence that heads have dropped so far the boys have given up. Damning.If we are serious, heads should roll. Players, coaches, the lot. Someone make a hard fucking call FFS.
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@mariner4life Just need to look at the form of pretty much anyone from super to the ABs, almost to a man, worse, if that isnt an indictment something is amiss in camp, then i am not sure what is.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2025:
@mariner4life Just need to look at the form of pretty much anyone from super to the ABs, almost to a man, worse, if that isnt an indictment something is amiss in camp, then i am not sure what is.
The example of Jordie is even better.
He came back looking a better player and has got worse.
That's an embarrassment. -
I understand why Leon left the set up as early as he did. No doubt they were sitting around discussing their philosophy and strategy. He had Scott Hansen blabber on for 15 mins like it was an audition for a TED talk and thought to himself, "this bloke's an imbecile. I can't be associated with this."
I'd like just one journalist ask why our attacking strategy is to stand still rather than running onto the ball. The follow up question can be when do we expect Ardie to do some work?
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks 2025:
@kpkanz said in All Blacks 2025:
And then Scott's captaincy...let alone the fact that he isn't in the top 3 locks in the squad yet is GUARANTEED a start because he was made captain.
While it is a top quality rant I feel compelled to mention that for awhile there, maybe 1 or 2 years ago, Scott really was one of the top 3 locks in the country.
Agreed, he was a logical choice for captain at the time with Retallick and Whitelock retiring.
He's not now, and when situations change so should decisions - although the moustache does lend a certain gravitas.
I don't think Savea should be near it, would prefer just Scott's moustache ahead of him.
Should probably be Taylor. -
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Should probably be Taylor
disagree, Taylor plays with a bit of an edge that i don't want to see dulled.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Should probably be Taylor
disagree, Taylor plays with a bit of an edge that i don't want to see dulled.
Then who? None of the props. Not sure who the locks are out of Holland, Vaai, Patty T and Barrett. Not sure who the loosies should be. Roigard is a kid and is injured a lot. BB should not be in the squad. Don't know who shouldb e centre, can't captain from the wing and Jordan no way.
So Jordie maybe? -
i honestly don't know because i am not sure i would start Jordie either.
And this is what we have created, the old experienced heads have been there too fucking long, and are no longer performing. The leadership group is a fucking shambles.
You are probably right in Taylor being the only guaranteed starter with any sort of experience or gravity.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Sititi maybe
No. A captain needs to lead by example - not go missing.
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@antipodean part of the problem is these guys will be looking to thier peers (Ardie, SB, BB) and even changing based on how they play....
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Sititi maybe
No. A captain needs to lead by example - not go missing.
Sititi has been severely mis-managed. Wouldn't it be great if they picked the best 8 in the country - Sotutu - and had Ardie on the bench with Sititi in the squad to learn the ropes instead of being thrown in the deep end. That way we get a quality 8 starting, someone that should always have been a bench impact player in his correct position, and Sititi gets to be brought up to speed to end up taking Ardie's bench spot, and in the future the number 8 spot.
But no, can't have that. Fuck Sotutu for some reason, how dare he be both the best 8 in the country AND a Blues player, the nerve of the bloke. And of course the Ardie stuff has been done to death.
What is clear now is that just about any Ferner would make MUCH better AB coach than Razor. I wish I was joking but the issues with the team right now were apparent to 90% of us on their FIRST squad selection.
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@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Sititi maybe
No. A captain needs to lead by example - not go missing.
hence the 'Taylor now' and the 'maybe' bits.
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@No-Quarter said in All Blacks 2025:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2025:
@reprobate said in All Blacks 2025:
Sititi maybe
No. A captain needs to lead by example - not go missing.
Sititi has been severely mis-managed. Wouldn't it be great if they picked the best 8 in the country - Sotutu - and had Ardie on the bench with Sititi in the squad to learn the ropes instead of being thrown in the deep end. That way we get a quality 8 starting, someone that should always have been a bench impact player in his correct position, and Sititi gets to be brought up to speed to end up taking Ardie's bench spot, and in the future the number 8 spot.
Yes
But no, can't have that. Fuck Sotutu for some reason, how dare he be both the best 8 in the country AND a Blues player, the nerve of the bloke. And of course the Ardie stuff has been done to death.
Agreed
What is clear now is that just about any Ferner would make MUCH better AB coach than Razor. I wish I was joking but the issues with the team right now were apparent to 90% of us on their FIRST squad selection.
Steady on, much easier to criticise behind a keyboard. And just about ANY Ferner?
There's a few loose cannons short of a target here.
Although it is probably time for a new thread: "Next AB coaching team"
