England v All Blacks
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When your flyhalf huffs and puffs at 30 min on the first half...you know you are in for a long afternoon. Where is our much talked about conditioning gone??? Where we used to put sides to the sword just before halftime and the final 20 minutes in 2nd half.
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@Mauss said in England Vs All Blacks:
I thought the Dingwall try was actually quite symbolic for some of the deeper-lying issues within this team. It shows that the players don’t trust each other and that the opposition is generally smarter than them.
It is honestly an embarrassingly easy score for England: Mitchell throws the long pass to Lawrence, taking out both Taylor and Lakai from the defensive picture. It leaves England and the ABs with a two-on-two: Lawrence and Dingwall against Carter and Tupaea.
There is really no reason for Tupaea to bite in here, unless he doesn’t trust Carter to make the tackle on Lawrence. And that takes us all the way back to the try in the first half, where Carter gets flattened by the English centre. Tupaea gets a flashback, wants to put in a double shot, and then it’s just easy hands at the line for Lawrence. Proctor is far back because he’s covering the English attackers hidden in the boot; he’s trusting his teammates to execute the defensive 2-on-2.
It's smart from England but it is painfully naïve from an AB perspective. Big, individual errors, like Leroy Carter’s in the first half, are a mental challenge for a team. If you’re a good side, you immediately put it behind you and start again. If you’re mentally fragile, it becomes like a domino-effect, influencing your every move and decision from that moment onwards.
After the England Test, I think it’s pretty clear what kind of team these ABs are.
Fragile and lacking composure.
That happened right in front of where I was sitting.
Strikes me positioning of Carter was a bit close to end of lineout. He and Tupaea being another metre wider and Dingwall gap would have been
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@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
What is the alternative?
Stop thinking it's all down to the Head Coach.
I don't think he'll be let go. My only hope is that they severely curtail his autonomy by firing all his assistants and installing new ones that may not be of his choosing
First, someone needs to review the current set-up to understand what is happening and come up with an improvement plan. Someone like Cotter with support from McCaw or Whitelock?
My guess is Robertson is out of his depth and doesn't know how to ask for help. He promoted himself as a coaching genius who threatened to leave NZ to leverage to get the job. He now looks a rabbit in the headlights and needs some direction and support.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Victor-Meldrew said in England Vs All Blacks:
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
What is the alternative?
Stop thinking it's all down to the Head Coach.
I don't think he'll be let go. My only hope is that they severely curtail his autonomy by firing all his assistants and installing new ones that may not be of his choosing
First, someone needs to review the current set-up to understand what is happening and come up with an improvement plan. Someone like Cotter with support from McCaw or Whitelock?
My guess is Robertson is out of his depth and doesn't know how to ask for help. He promoted himself as a coaching genius who threatened to leave NZ to leverage to get the job. He now looks a rabbit in the headlights and needs some direction and support.
In fairness he probably got sucked in by his own success at local level like everyone else did and actually believed he had the answers , it wasn’t so much a con job , he really believed it .
And he will probably be a better coach from this tough lesson one day but he will be gone to us , similar to a John Mitchell.
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@Mattasaurus said in England Vs All Blacks:
@Steven-Harris said in England Vs All Blacks:
@jimmyb you are
correct
The discipline is as bad as it was under the back end of Hansen,Foster and now Robinson and it has’nt improved under the later
The aimless high kick and cross kick game still a major problem under all 3 coachesI think a lot of it comes down to BB being immune to being dropped - aimless, low percentage kicking has been his bread and butter for years now.
The bigger problem of the above is that our forwards win enough ball to expect the backs to progress the game or even score - these moments are not that common and when they are duly wasted on yet another feckless BB kick you have to wonder what it takes to roll the dice on some of the younger options
It takes away from the DNA of our rugby. Heads up rugby with players who like to run with the ball. The most frustrating play is the cross kick when under penalty advantage - a low % play when the ref is going to give you every chance to work space and score close to the line. We know the balance is important but when the ABs were down against Boks in Wellington and we had low % plays like chip kicking for Ardie Savea… ffs.
The other aspect of this is how incestuous our rugby community is - ex ABs as player agents and commentators on the game, a press that incessantly talks up the coaches narrative on the kicking game yet ignores how poor we kick and our inability to retain possession and build pressure. You can critique players/ coaches for decisions, performance and skills without denigrating them. Instead we talk in cliches until it smacks us in the face.
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@kiwiinmelb said in England Vs All Blacks:
And he will probably be a better coach from this tough lesson one day but he will be gone to us , similar to a John Mitchell.
Hopefully NZR and the idiots who cheer-led him blindly will learn something as well.
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All Blacks legend: New Zealand Rugby 'burned relationship' with top coaches who didn't get benefit of the doubt like Scott Robertson
The inquest into the All Blacks' latest disappointing defeat started with New Zealand legends questioning the quality of coaching.
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@ploughboy Steve Devine has said the same thing:
Steve Devine believes the All Blacks' “structured” attack is stifling Scott Robertson's side as the pressure increases on the head coach.
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I only watched a bit of the Breakdown. While it was nice to see them being critical, did any of the criticism extend to the players? What I saw seemed to be 'we have the cattle, this is a good team, look at all the experience, we're good in patches, not coping with pressure' and blame the coaches. But I think the experienced guys are a big part of the problem: they can't cope with pressure and if e.g. BB and AS aren't patchy players, I don't know who is.
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@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@ploughboy Steve Devine has said the same thing:
Quoting an ex-Blues man AND halfback on here is like playing double jeopardy!
Some cojones! -
@nostrildamus well plenty on here were lamenting the lack of performance KPIs for Foster, so you'd hope (no doubt in vain) they learnt from that and tied some to Razor, even with a 4 year contract.
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@nostrildamus said in England Vs All Blacks:
@sparky said in England Vs All Blacks:
@ploughboy Steve Devine has said the same thing:
Quoting an ex-Blues man AND halfback on here is like playing double jeopardy!
Some cojones!He's an aussie too mate.
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@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
and if e.g. BB and AS aren't patchy players, I don't know who is.
Jordan, DMac, Leicester, Carter, Reece...
(but actually I like the first three)...
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@nostrildamus said in England Vs All Blacks:
@reprobate said in England Vs All Blacks:
and if e.g. BB and AS aren't patchy players, I don't know who is.
Jordan, DMac, Leicester, Carter, Reece...
(but actually I like the first three)...
Yes, though I'd argue less so. My point is just that our experienced guys (Taylor aside) are incredibly inconsistent whereas some newbies e.g. Lakai and Holland will go hard all game. So when someone is calling out our patchy performances and blaming the coaches, our patchy as fuck senior players ought to be copping it too.
And in my opinion anyone that flakey should never be anywhere near a leadership group. If their great moments are genuinely great they can fuck off to the wing and shut their dumb traps, otherwise they can watch it on the telly - though I'd wonder if they even have the attention span for that. -
@canefan said in England Vs All Blacks:
I don't generally watch or like The Breakdown. But this might be the best episode ever. Mils and Goldie are putting the boot into Razor and his group, NZR and the players. Their frustration and anger is palpable
NZR will probably demand that Goldie and Mils get sacked now, so they'll quietly get brushed to the side for Angus Ta'avao and James Parsons.
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@nostrildamus And, most bravely of all, an Aussie.
