Wales v All Blacks
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@canefan said in Wales v All Blacks:
@kiwiinmelb said in Wales v All Blacks:
I watched most of it , struggled a bit through tiredness and went back to bed when the result looked secure ,
Gee we seem to easily leak points these days , that was probably the thing that stood out strongest for me
We don't dictate and control the play anymore. Other teams impose their will on us
Yeah we are very passive , it’s disturbing to me how the so called lesser teams seem to be right in the game and have lots of success against us .
I think we are at the crossroads and in danger of slipping further like the wallabies did years ago if we aren’t careful.
Maybe our talent production line will always be stronger than theirs and will prevent that happening but it does feel a bit similar with the on field stuff . -
@African-Monkey said in Wales v All Blacks:
Yeah hard to disagree. They lack on the physical side of the game to be really competitive at present. The game itself felt like a mid table Super Rugby fixture, with the AB defence awful on the outsides. So many players out their, for all their positive play, have so many bad habits in their games.
That seems right to me. The coaches seem to have trouble hiding, minimizing, or working around weaknesses. The better, bigger, faster, better kicking teams exploit this.
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@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
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@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
Yeah that's fair. But hardly had a carry and didn't make many tackles to my eye (not that the team as a whole had many to make).
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@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
Nice to know they have it in them
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@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
Yeah that's fair. But hardly had a carry and didn't make many tackles to my eye (not that the team as a whole had many to make).
Perhaps as long as each player has a primary task they can perform well would be better than a bunch of guys not doing the hard stuff because they are all wanting to seagull out in the backs
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@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
I think he's worth perservering with for now tbh. I noticed some of his work around the ruck today. Probably needs to work on his work with ball in hand next season. We've seen in at SR in the wider channels, haven't seen it just yet at Test level.
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So, usual initial thoughts before reading the thread.
Two teams who have poor defence, but really we had the worst defence considering the monopoly on possession for the majority of the game. Do we have a defence coach?
Why is Ratima so robotic for the ABs when he isn't for the Chiefs, there's just no variety in his game and it's just pass, pass, pass.
Without Ardie on the park the commentators obviously chose to talk up Jordan. If you only listed to them without watching the game then Jordan was the best player on the park instead of the rocks and diamonds performance he put in. The funniest one was Marshall talking up his play before the Reece try when he threw a terrible pass missing two players.
I don't know what to do with Jordan anymore, he's our best right wing and a try scoring machine, but they see him at fullback, and I think today he assumed he was fullback because so often he was off his wing.Reece likely secured his place in the ABs for next year with two tries.
I don't know what instructions our players have, in the lead up to the first second half non Clarke try there were no loosies clearing rucks, Ioane had multiple clears in that passage.
I'm glad the ref gave Lake a talking to for his constant moving of the mark at the lineout, was pissing me off. But how dumb is our team, Elton John is straighter than that guy's lineout throws and we too often didn't send a jumper up.
I thought the ref was fine, I think someone posted something pre match about her not being able to keep up with the play but she seemed to do that fine to me.
Well taken hatrick by Rogers.
I think I'm actually underrating the 50 points in my head because of our defence and the seemingly long periods of time where we struggled to unlock them, but there was some genuinely good attacking play in the match. DMac assured at 10, kicked goals spectacularly, most in play kicks were good, the backs got some space. Sititi ran on to the ball hard all night and even if he wasn't making huge metres he was at least bending the line. Love with a well taken try in a rocks and diamonds performance. Holland is a lineout gun and busy around the field, I think he's had a good breakout season, maybe the best for a lock since BBBR.
Well, a dud end to a dud season for us. Such as it's been I'm actually looking forward to the break whereas most years I'm annoyed by the end of the season as I don't really follow other sports.
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@African-Monkey said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
I think he's worth perservering with for now tbh. I noticed some of his work around the ruck today. Probably needs to work on his work with ball in hand next season. We've seen in at SR in the wider channels, haven't seen it just yet at Test level.
Yeah at super he did damage there so have to think he is playing under instructions to stay tight and let Ardie have the wide role...
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Well, thats a big win to finish the year, lots of points, everyone got o run around and have a bit of fun, racked up 50. Go get on the beers for summer boys.
Set piece again sensational. Some actual venom in the carry. Lots of continuous play.
Huge game from Sititi. Actually ran on to the ball, but actually hit a heap of rucks at crucial times, constant involvement. Nice to see the old Sami T back as well.
Back three looked bloody good in the first half. In fact the backlone looked better because we had guys who can pass at 10, 12 and 15 (also Reiko has better hands than he gets credit for).Wales got flogged on thr scoreboard but geez they gave it shit, tackled and tackled and tackled, fucked around at the breakdown, and biffed it wide at every opportunity.
Fun watch, now its cricket season.
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@Grooter
I have also heard that Love had a training ground disagreement with Hansen. -
But the scoreline hides some shit aye?
A damning stat. At the 75 minute mark our missed tackle percentage was higher than theirs despite barely having to make any. We gave up 4 tries with only 50 tackles made, and all were system related. Still no linespeed. Still no momentum stopping hits. We're passive and easy to get around.
We had all thr ball, made thousands of metres, and it took two fucking yellow cards to open them up. Heaps of endeavour, but we struggled to do much with it. Lethal in the red zone I'll give them that.
To me thats "process" not personnel.
It'll get glissed, but how hard we found it to put thrm away until the cards despite all the ball, all the penalties and every advantage is a trifle concerning.
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@kidcalder said in Wales v All Blacks:
@African-Monkey said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
I think he's worth perservering with for now tbh. I noticed some of his work around the ruck today. Probably needs to work on his work with ball in hand next season. We've seen in at SR in the wider channels, haven't seen it just yet at Test level.
Yeah at super he did damage there so have to think he is playing under instructions to stay tight and let Ardie have the wide role...
And that's the thing, I think he has to work on his carrying in close. We know he'll be playing close to the ruck so he needs to improve in that area. He could be the answer though. Maybe.
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@tubbyj said in Wales v All Blacks:
Kirifi, Christie, ALB and Reece are not good enough for test rugby and their selections on this tour were poor for a team that is meant to be building depth towards the next RWC.
Then you have others like Ardie and BB who are being persisted with to the detriment of exploring other options and lineups
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@African-Monkey said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
I think he's worth perservering with for now tbh. I noticed some of his work around the ruck today. Probably needs to work on his work with ball in hand next season. We've seen in at SR in the wider channels, haven't seen it just yet at Test level.
Hes basically another Reuben Thorne. In the context of the coaches selecting a 7 who likes to carry and pilfer hes they do need someone focused on hitting rucks.
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@mariner4life said in Wales v All Blacks:
But the scoreline hides some shit aye?
A damning stat. At the 75 minute mark our missed tackle percentage was higher than theirs despite barely having to make any. We gave up 4 tries with only 50 tackles made, and all were system related. Still no linespeed. Still no momentum stopping hits. We're passive and easy to get around.
We had all thr ball, made thousands of metres, and it took two fucking yellow cards to open them up. Heaps of endeavour, but we struggled to do much with it. Lethal in the red zone I'll give them that.
To me thats "process" not personnel.
It'll get glissed, but how hard we found it to put thrm away until the cards despite all the ball, all the penalties and every advantage is a trifle concerning.
Ratimas contestables were poor. You have to wonder about this tactic when we are poor under the highball and poor defensively.
The ball was moving a bit faster when Christie came on but I felt the point of attack wasn't narrow enough even when the first receiver was taking into contact. Very little in the way of pick and goes.
We havent used the maul enough this year considering how dominant our lineout was been most of the time.
Not doing these things are all of course part of their game plan and attack pattern.
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@brodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
@African-Monkey said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
McKenzie such a clear upgrade, not perfect (apart from the goalkicking), but ball moved rapidly to space and all of a sudden our wingers are scoring tries. Contestable kicks were better. Long kicks were better. And most of that with Ratima really struggling with kicking and delivery, and not running once that I recall - vs Barrett having Roigard. As fucking expected for fuck's sake Raygun you dullard.
Samisoni very good, both around the field and 100% in the lineout. More suited to start than come off the bench.
Holland, what a great season.
Sititi very good, while Kirifi and Parker were pretty anonymous - and finally, finally we've seen one of our loosies wind up.
Ioane a couple of uncharacteristic really poor bits of defence in conjunction with Jordan, otherwise good. ALB good too. LF continues to look dangerous and have terrible ball security.
Clarke excellent on attack, got done by the excellent LRZ a couple of times though.
Love rocks and diamonds, which is fine for a young guy who has hardly played. Showed that he deserves more opportunities, and looked genuinely angry after scoring, which you'd have to assume is a reaction to the non-selection. Then gets dragged after 50... probably not match fit I suppose...Game was always likely to be a bit of a mess, with the lack of combinations, guys who hadn't played much, the tendency to overplay when finally give a chance, and the knowledge that the coach neither trusts you or thinks that this game is any sort of a challenge.
Some excellent cleans by Parker, something that you could seldom say about an AB loosie recently.
I think he's worth perservering with for now tbh. I noticed some of his work around the ruck today. Probably needs to work on his work with ball in hand next season. We've seen in at SR in the wider channels, haven't seen it just yet at Test level.
Hes basically another Reuben Thorne. In the context of the coaches selecting a 7 who likes to carry and pilfer hes they do need someone focused on hitting rucks.
Yeah, and that's why they loved Frizzell so much. I described Frizzell a few times as like a Tongan version of Reuben Thorne and that's what they're trying to replicate with Parker, who is seen obviousily as the closest fit for it.
So yes, if Reuben Thorne was around in today's era, he will have played a lot of tests in the 6 jersey.
