Wales v All Blacks
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@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
There's three occasions for cards: dangerous play, cynical play, repeat offending.
I think maybe we should look at finding a way around the repeat infringing ones. If 3 points isn't enough reward, would 4 be? Or changing the kick off following a penalty (either who does it or where from), so that you get the ball back in better field position after kicking one?
Thugs and deliberate cheats still need to go I think: spirit of the game and all that.Similar to the basketball team foul threshold? Once a team reaches the penalty threshold for the half, penalties could increase to four points?
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@Crazy-Horse said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman said in Wales v All Blacks:
@Mr-Fish I grant you that.
But for ‘voluntary’ penalties I’d rather ref’s kept it in their pants.
Perhaps more assertiveness along the way would help? If I were a ref I might say to the captain that the crowd didn’t come along to see me giving out cards so for God’s sake tell your players to cut the crap.
Perhaps I’m just still riled from the ludicrousness of the Codie yellow!
Teams tend to give away 'voluntary' penalties because they don't want to concede a try. As an alternative to the yellow card, how about we do something left field like award 7 point penalties for a period of time. Maybe as a one off or for 10 minutes? Anything is better than cards.
Not sure what you mean by "for a period of time". Please explain ...
Brainstorming an option how about automatic three points with PK restart on halfway?
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@taniwharugby said in Wales v All Blacks:
@pakman it is a subtle change of mindset in how you look at something, because I agree with you in that it seems refs/TMO are looking at every situation as a way to issue a card, almost like they have KPIs around how many cards they issue
Why does this deserve card?
vs
How can I avoid issuing a card?@Crazy-Horse maybe issue more PTs for professional fouls inside the 22 and allow a tap restart?
Didn't read this when I posted the above. Kindof #booboo.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal said in Wales v All Blacks:
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
There's three occasions for cards: dangerous play, cynical play, repeat offending.
I think maybe we should look at finding a way around the repeat infringing ones. If 3 points isn't enough reward, would 4 be? Or changing the kick off following a penalty (either who does it or where from), so that you get the ball back in better field position after kicking one?
Thugs and deliberate cheats still need to go I think: spirit of the game and all that.Similar to the basketball team foul threshold? Once a team reaches the penalty threshold for the half, penalties could increase to four points?
Interesting idea. I'm pretty sure the average number of penalties per game for different refs would be quite different - so with some refs it would be worthwhile, with others not. Which may be a problem, maybe not.
A penalty needs to be attractive enough vs a try for the attacking team to consider kicking it, and enough of a deterrent for the defending team to stop infringing. Removing the repeat infringements card would remove some of the 'keep playing for more penalties and a card' motivation, but the deterrent needs to be stronger.
I'm also sick of playing under 40m advantage until a try is scored. It makes heaps of amazing defensive plays worthless.
Just keep it to 3 points and a goal line drop out restart might work? -
@reprobate said in Wales v All Blacks:
There's three occasions for cards: dangerous play, cynical play, repeat offending.
I think maybe we should look at finding a way around the repeat infringing ones. If 3 points isn't enough reward, would 4 be? Or changing the kick off following a penalty (either who does it or where from), so that you get the ball back in better field position after kicking one?
Thugs and deliberate cheats still need to go I think: spirit of the game and all that.Thugs can be dealt with good old red cards. Deliberate cheats maybe look at variation of penalty try. So if in 22 automatic 3 and if within 5m automatic 5?
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@booboo maybe extend it to a tap restart, or allow them to kick for touch from the restart, meaning they are right back in the red zone on attack.
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@reprobate Just brainstorming here but how about advancing the mark for the penalty 10 or 20 metres for repeat offending?
Or (this is very random) five minute power plays - the non-offending team receives more points for tries, drop goals and penalties within the time period, handling errors by the non-offending team result in a free kick to that team, rather than a scrum to the defending team, the non-offending team are allowed an extra stoppage for mauls, that sort of random stuff. I haven't thought that through at all but it popped into my head.
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@ShaquilleOatmeal I like your thinking in some ways, but will admit ti not liking another system that will just cause arguments.
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or, and i know it's a crazy idea but, how about when the ref says "i have repeatedly penalised you for laying in the ruck to slow the ball down, next time someone goes" the other team says okay you got me, and stops doing that? Wales were fucking lucky not to get one in the first half with their first warning. She then gave another warning in the 2nd half before old mate got sent.
I actually thought the high shot yellow was more dodgy as it was one of those ones where the head contact was the whiplash effect rather than shoulder to jaw. Not the tacklers fault, it's DMacs for selling his mate out.
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@taniwharugby said in Wales v All Blacks:
@booboo maybe extend it to a tap restart, or allow them to kick for touch from the restart, meaning they are right back in the red zone on attack.
Yeah. What I meant. A PK on the half to restart. Gives the option of a tap, kick to touch, or shot at goal.
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@booboo currently, awarding a pen on halfway from the restart is in the ref's arsenal, but cant recall the last time I saw it.
Is it viewed any differently to a normal penalty?
I mean if you have a kicker able to knock it over, 10 points should be a bigger dis-incentive to infringe.
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I'm averse to solutions which are more complex to administer and more subjective than the current state.
They won't bring back rucking so the problem obviously doesn't solve itself.
And you can't put in place a solution that removes the contest at rucks.
For me the simplest solution is to insist players from either side have to stay on their fucking feet.
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Infringement which stops a try being scored = YC
If a try is scored = carry on, No YC
I hate it when there’s a Penalty Try and YC
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@taniwharugby said in Wales v All Blacks:
@booboo currently, awarding a pen on halfway from the restart is in the ref's arsenal, but cant recall the last time I saw it.
Is it viewed any differently to a normal penalty?
I mean if you have a kicker able to knock it over, 10 points should be a bigger dis-incentive to infringe.
Penalty on halfway is, as far as I know, for illegality in the act of scoring, or thereafter. We're talking about strengthening the sanction for cynical professional foul.
Guarantee 3 points, 10min sin bin, and opportunity to kick to 22/kick at goal/tap and go/scrum should be quite the disincentive.
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@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
Penalty Try and YC
Isn't that required if there's a PT.
(Ireland should have been down to 11.)
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@booboo said in Wales v All Blacks:
@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
Penalty Try and YC
Isn't that required if there's a PT.
(Ireland should have been down to 11.)
Yeah
But doesn’t make sense
Ref has awarded 7 pts
That should be enough
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@MiketheSnow well yeah but they've done that because a try probably would have been scored.
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@antipodean said in Wales v All Blacks:
I'm averse to solutions which are more complex to administer and more subjective than the current state.
Yeah, keep it simple.
If the ref deems a defender to have deliberately infringed, just get him to stand out of play (side line, db line), and he come back on when possession changes (when the attacking makes a mistake, or scores).
Might even clean the rucks up a bit, if they know they can get outed quick and simple.
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@MiketheSnow said in Wales v All Blacks:
I hate it when there’s a Penalty Try and YC
Mmm, that's like kicking someone when they are down.
A double whammy.
