Bokke vs Ireland
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@pakman said in Bokke vs Ireland:
@sparky said in Bokke vs Ireland:
YC for Ryan. Illegal clear out that made contact with the head. Going for a RC review.
Should be a 20-minute Red IMHO.
I’ve now watched this very carefully. The head contact with Marks was minimal. Shoulder contact made on his upper chest. He didn’t even touch his face, as one would if hit solidly there.
Most certainly not a high degree of danger the way Ryan twisted his body, which to me suggested he actually was aiming below neck.
Will be interesting to see what the Kangaroo Court releases once it has done its review.
No attempt to bind or stay on his feet, tucked shoulder coming in like a missile.
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@antipodean I’m not sure what he was thinking but he seemed to tuck his left shoulder in and down to avoid Marx’s head, and it contacted him instead in the upper chest.
So stupid, yes, but in fact not a high degree of danger.
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@PN said in Bokke vs Ireland:
Honestly ireland deserved every card. Flopping at the scrum, hands in the truck. Sacking the maul. So cynical. Don't fall into the narrative if the game being 'weird'. Ireland were playing negative rugby and ran into a ref that was prepared to ref what he sees
Yep. Couldn’t agree more. Pleased to see Carley not cowed by the crowd. Loved it when he laughed at Aki after the penalty try.
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@MajorPom said in Bokke vs Ireland:
I am right up there in the fuck Ireland camp when it comes to rugby. I might even lead it.
But those boys in green showed the most heart I have ever seen on a rugby pitch last night.
Hats off to them. They earned their guiness, big time.
For sure the braveheart effort was in full effect. But that’s not great rugby
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From some fella on FB
Written by: Eathan-john Peters
“Ok, let’s really talk about that Bok vs Ireland game. And let me warn you now — if you’re an Irish fan, take a sip of your drink, because this is going to hurt more than the Boks’ front row did.
First things first: Ireland didn’t lose a rugby match.
They got reintroduced to reality.You could see the delusion evaporating from their eyes in real time. They came into that stadium hyped up off that little spell of success they had the last few years — beating a Bok team here, winning a series there, convincing themselves they’re now some elite powerhouse. Cute.
But from the first scrum, the Springboks grabbed them by the shoulders and said:‘Focus, my boy. You’ve forgotten who your landlord is.’
That wasn’t a scrum.
It was a heritage lesson.Every reset felt like the Boks were stamping a passport:
Welcome back to the real world, population: you.Ireland looked like schoolkids trying to hold back a Hilux rolling down a hill. Their pack was moving backward so fast the stadium security should’ve issued a speeding ticket.
And let’s not pretend they were ‘competitive’.
Ireland spent more time on their knees than upright.
It looked like an 80-minute yoga class they never signed up for.Boks weren’t playing rugby — they were running a structural engineering test on the Irish spine column.
And the funniest part?
Ireland actually tried.
You could see the effort. The panic. The desperation.
But trying to outmuscle the Boks is like trying to fight a pit bull with a wet sock. You’re not brave — you’re stupid.People love to talk about Ireland’s “structures,” “systems,” and “phase play.” Ja, that stuff works against teams who want to play chess.
The Boks don’t play chess.
They flip the table and use it as a weapon.Ireland brought a laptop.
The Boks brought a sledgehammer.Now let’s talk discipline. Ireland’s discipline was so bad, half their team was sitting in the sin bin like they booked a group reservation. They were basically rotating through yellow cards like they were sharing a bathroom.
At one point Ireland had 12 men on the field.
Twelve.
That’s not a rugby team — that’s a minibus taxi.Meanwhile the Boks were still smashing them like they owed child support.
And ja, ok, let’s address the Irish fans who’ll say:
“But the score wasn’t that big!”My bru, listen carefully…
The score wasn’t big because the Boks stopped caring about points.
They weren’t there to win by 30.
They were there to send a message in bodily pain.The Boks wanted Ireland to feel every mistake they've made since 2017.
Every scrum penalty was like a love letter that said:
“Remember your place.”Every maul was a reminder that
there’s world rugby… and then there’s South Africa.And at the bar, you’ll always get that one Irish fan who chirps:
“We beat you before!”
Ja, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when that clock tries to fight a jackhammer, you know how it ends.Ireland thought they’d built a legacy.
The Boks reminded them they’d built a sandcastle.With one wave — gone.
This match settled the debate permanently:
Ireland are good.
The Boks are inevitable.And if Irish fans still want to argue, that’s fine.
Just remind them:The last time they saw a scrum like that…
they were probably watching a wildlife documentary about hippos fighting over territory. -
@taniwharugby we win one game in Dublin and completely lose the run of ourselves. I need another two decades of the boks treating Irish frontrowers like single ply bogroll before I’m ready to consider this sort of nonsense.
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@taniwharugby said in Bokke vs Ireland:
From some fella on FB
Written by: Eathan-john Peters
“Ok, let’s really talk about that Bok vs Ireland game. And let me warn you now — if you’re an Irish fan, take a sip of your drink, because this is going to hurt more than the Boks’ front row did.
First things first: Ireland didn’t lose a rugby match.
They got reintroduced to reality.You could see the delusion evaporating from their eyes in real time. They came into that stadium hyped up off that little spell of success they had the last few years — beating a Bok team here, winning a series there, convincing themselves they’re now some elite powerhouse. Cute.
But from the first scrum, the Springboks grabbed them by the shoulders and said:‘Focus, my boy. You’ve forgotten who your landlord is.’
That wasn’t a scrum.
It was a heritage lesson.Every reset felt like the Boks were stamping a passport:
Welcome back to the real world, population: you.Ireland looked like schoolkids trying to hold back a Hilux rolling down a hill. Their pack was moving backward so fast the stadium security should’ve issued a speeding ticket.
And let’s not pretend they were ‘competitive’.
Ireland spent more time on their knees than upright.
It looked like an 80-minute yoga class they never signed up for.Boks weren’t playing rugby — they were running a structural engineering test on the Irish spine column.
And the funniest part?
Ireland actually tried.
You could see the effort. The panic. The desperation.
But trying to outmuscle the Boks is like trying to fight a pit bull with a wet sock. You’re not brave — you’re stupid.People love to talk about Ireland’s “structures,” “systems,” and “phase play.” Ja, that stuff works against teams who want to play chess.
The Boks don’t play chess.
They flip the table and use it as a weapon.Ireland brought a laptop.
The Boks brought a sledgehammer.Now let’s talk discipline. Ireland’s discipline was so bad, half their team was sitting in the sin bin like they booked a group reservation. They were basically rotating through yellow cards like they were sharing a bathroom.
At one point Ireland had 12 men on the field.
Twelve.
That’s not a rugby team — that’s a minibus taxi.Meanwhile the Boks were still smashing them like they owed child support.
And ja, ok, let’s address the Irish fans who’ll say:
“But the score wasn’t that big!”My bru, listen carefully…
The score wasn’t big because the Boks stopped caring about points.
They weren’t there to win by 30.
They were there to send a message in bodily pain.The Boks wanted Ireland to feel every mistake they've made since 2017.
Every scrum penalty was like a love letter that said:
“Remember your place.”Every maul was a reminder that
there’s world rugby… and then there’s South Africa.And at the bar, you’ll always get that one Irish fan who chirps:
“We beat you before!”
Ja, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when that clock tries to fight a jackhammer, you know how it ends.Ireland thought they’d built a legacy.
The Boks reminded them they’d built a sandcastle.With one wave — gone.
This match settled the debate permanently:
Ireland are good.
The Boks are inevitable.And if Irish fans still want to argue, that’s fine.
Just remind them:The last time they saw a scrum like that…
they were probably watching a wildlife documentary about hippos fighting over territory.We didn’t score more points because we didn’t want to is the biggest pile of shit
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@MiketheSnow said in Bokke vs Ireland:
@taniwharugby said in Bokke vs Ireland:
From some fella on FB
Written by: Eathan-john Peters
“Ok, let’s really talk about that Bok vs Ireland game. And let me warn you now — if you’re an Irish fan, take a sip of your drink, because this is going to hurt more than the Boks’ front row did.
First things first: Ireland didn’t lose a rugby match.
They got reintroduced to reality.You could see the delusion evaporating from their eyes in real time. They came into that stadium hyped up off that little spell of success they had the last few years — beating a Bok team here, winning a series there, convincing themselves they’re now some elite powerhouse. Cute.
But from the first scrum, the Springboks grabbed them by the shoulders and said:‘Focus, my boy. You’ve forgotten who your landlord is.’
That wasn’t a scrum.
It was a heritage lesson.Every reset felt like the Boks were stamping a passport:
Welcome back to the real world, population: you.Ireland looked like schoolkids trying to hold back a Hilux rolling down a hill. Their pack was moving backward so fast the stadium security should’ve issued a speeding ticket.
And let’s not pretend they were ‘competitive’.
Ireland spent more time on their knees than upright.
It looked like an 80-minute yoga class they never signed up for.Boks weren’t playing rugby — they were running a structural engineering test on the Irish spine column.
And the funniest part?
Ireland actually tried.
You could see the effort. The panic. The desperation.
But trying to outmuscle the Boks is like trying to fight a pit bull with a wet sock. You’re not brave — you’re stupid.People love to talk about Ireland’s “structures,” “systems,” and “phase play.” Ja, that stuff works against teams who want to play chess.
The Boks don’t play chess.
They flip the table and use it as a weapon.Ireland brought a laptop.
The Boks brought a sledgehammer.Now let’s talk discipline. Ireland’s discipline was so bad, half their team was sitting in the sin bin like they booked a group reservation. They were basically rotating through yellow cards like they were sharing a bathroom.
At one point Ireland had 12 men on the field.
Twelve.
That’s not a rugby team — that’s a minibus taxi.Meanwhile the Boks were still smashing them like they owed child support.
And ja, ok, let’s address the Irish fans who’ll say:
“But the score wasn’t that big!”My bru, listen carefully…
The score wasn’t big because the Boks stopped caring about points.
They weren’t there to win by 30.
They were there to send a message in bodily pain.The Boks wanted Ireland to feel every mistake they've made since 2017.
Every scrum penalty was like a love letter that said:
“Remember your place.”Every maul was a reminder that
there’s world rugby… and then there’s South Africa.And at the bar, you’ll always get that one Irish fan who chirps:
“We beat you before!”
Ja, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when that clock tries to fight a jackhammer, you know how it ends.Ireland thought they’d built a legacy.
The Boks reminded them they’d built a sandcastle.With one wave — gone.
This match settled the debate permanently:
Ireland are good.
The Boks are inevitable.And if Irish fans still want to argue, that’s fine.
Just remind them:The last time they saw a scrum like that…
they were probably watching a wildlife documentary about hippos fighting over territory.We didn’t score more points because we didn’t want to is the biggest pile of shit
The great irony of that dribling excrement is where it complains about the hyperbole of deluded Irish fans.
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@antipodean the insults we lob are often less about our target than a revelation of our own fearful/disgusted insecurities
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@taniwharugby said in Bokke vs Ireland:
From some fella on FB
Written by: Eathan-john Peters
“Ok, let’s really talk about that Bok vs Ireland game. And let me warn you now — if you’re an Irish fan, take a sip of your drink, because this is going to hurt more than the Boks’ front row did.
First things first: Ireland didn’t lose a rugby match.
They got reintroduced to reality.You could see the delusion evaporating from their eyes in real time. They came into that stadium hyped up off that little spell of success they had the last few years — beating a Bok team here, winning a series there, convincing themselves they’re now some elite powerhouse. Cute.
But from the first scrum, the Springboks grabbed them by the shoulders and said:‘Focus, my boy. You’ve forgotten who your landlord is.’
That wasn’t a scrum.
It was a heritage lesson.Every reset felt like the Boks were stamping a passport:
Welcome back to the real world, population: you.Ireland looked like schoolkids trying to hold back a Hilux rolling down a hill. Their pack was moving backward so fast the stadium security should’ve issued a speeding ticket.
And let’s not pretend they were ‘competitive’.
Ireland spent more time on their knees than upright.
It looked like an 80-minute yoga class they never signed up for.Boks weren’t playing rugby — they were running a structural engineering test on the Irish spine column.
And the funniest part?
Ireland actually tried.
You could see the effort. The panic. The desperation.
But trying to outmuscle the Boks is like trying to fight a pit bull with a wet sock. You’re not brave — you’re stupid.People love to talk about Ireland’s “structures,” “systems,” and “phase play.” Ja, that stuff works against teams who want to play chess.
The Boks don’t play chess.
They flip the table and use it as a weapon.Ireland brought a laptop.
The Boks brought a sledgehammer.Now let’s talk discipline. Ireland’s discipline was so bad, half their team was sitting in the sin bin like they booked a group reservation. They were basically rotating through yellow cards like they were sharing a bathroom.
At one point Ireland had 12 men on the field.
Twelve.
That’s not a rugby team — that’s a minibus taxi.Meanwhile the Boks were still smashing them like they owed child support.
And ja, ok, let’s address the Irish fans who’ll say:
“But the score wasn’t that big!”My bru, listen carefully…
The score wasn’t big because the Boks stopped caring about points.
They weren’t there to win by 30.
They were there to send a message in bodily pain.The Boks wanted Ireland to feel every mistake they've made since 2017.
Every scrum penalty was like a love letter that said:
“Remember your place.”Every maul was a reminder that
there’s world rugby… and then there’s South Africa.And at the bar, you’ll always get that one Irish fan who chirps:
“We beat you before!”
Ja, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when that clock tries to fight a jackhammer, you know how it ends.Ireland thought they’d built a legacy.
The Boks reminded them they’d built a sandcastle.With one wave — gone.
This match settled the debate permanently:
Ireland are good.
The Boks are inevitable.And if Irish fans still want to argue, that’s fine.
Just remind them:The last time they saw a scrum like that…
they were probably watching a wildlife documentary about hippos fighting over territory.Irish brought this upon themselves. Their lock stocks for this game were one LH lock and two 5/6 hybrids. Then they use a man.
Scrums became Holden V8 vs Reliant Robin.
Didn’t bother watching second half.
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@antipodean said in Bokke vs Ireland:
@MiketheSnow said in Bokke vs Ireland:
@taniwharugby said in Bokke vs Ireland:
From some fella on FB
Written by: Eathan-john Peters
“Ok, let’s really talk about that Bok vs Ireland game. And let me warn you now — if you’re an Irish fan, take a sip of your drink, because this is going to hurt more than the Boks’ front row did.
First things first: Ireland didn’t lose a rugby match.
They got reintroduced to reality.You could see the delusion evaporating from their eyes in real time. They came into that stadium hyped up off that little spell of success they had the last few years — beating a Bok team here, winning a series there, convincing themselves they’re now some elite powerhouse. Cute.
But from the first scrum, the Springboks grabbed them by the shoulders and said:‘Focus, my boy. You’ve forgotten who your landlord is.’
That wasn’t a scrum.
It was a heritage lesson.Every reset felt like the Boks were stamping a passport:
Welcome back to the real world, population: you.Ireland looked like schoolkids trying to hold back a Hilux rolling down a hill. Their pack was moving backward so fast the stadium security should’ve issued a speeding ticket.
And let’s not pretend they were ‘competitive’.
Ireland spent more time on their knees than upright.
It looked like an 80-minute yoga class they never signed up for.Boks weren’t playing rugby — they were running a structural engineering test on the Irish spine column.
And the funniest part?
Ireland actually tried.
You could see the effort. The panic. The desperation.
But trying to outmuscle the Boks is like trying to fight a pit bull with a wet sock. You’re not brave — you’re stupid.People love to talk about Ireland’s “structures,” “systems,” and “phase play.” Ja, that stuff works against teams who want to play chess.
The Boks don’t play chess.
They flip the table and use it as a weapon.Ireland brought a laptop.
The Boks brought a sledgehammer.Now let’s talk discipline. Ireland’s discipline was so bad, half their team was sitting in the sin bin like they booked a group reservation. They were basically rotating through yellow cards like they were sharing a bathroom.
At one point Ireland had 12 men on the field.
Twelve.
That’s not a rugby team — that’s a minibus taxi.Meanwhile the Boks were still smashing them like they owed child support.
And ja, ok, let’s address the Irish fans who’ll say:
“But the score wasn’t that big!”My bru, listen carefully…
The score wasn’t big because the Boks stopped caring about points.
They weren’t there to win by 30.
They were there to send a message in bodily pain.The Boks wanted Ireland to feel every mistake they've made since 2017.
Every scrum penalty was like a love letter that said:
“Remember your place.”Every maul was a reminder that
there’s world rugby… and then there’s South Africa.And at the bar, you’ll always get that one Irish fan who chirps:
“We beat you before!”
Ja, even a broken clock is right twice a day.
But when that clock tries to fight a jackhammer, you know how it ends.Ireland thought they’d built a legacy.
The Boks reminded them they’d built a sandcastle.With one wave — gone.
This match settled the debate permanently:
Ireland are good.
The Boks are inevitable.And if Irish fans still want to argue, that’s fine.
Just remind them:The last time they saw a scrum like that…
they were probably watching a wildlife documentary about hippos fighting over territory.We didn’t score more points because we didn’t want to is the biggest pile of shit
The great irony of that dribling excrement is where it complains about the hyperbole of deluded Irish fans.
Psychosis induced by Biltong. It’s heady stuff .
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@pakman you missed the boks dismantling the Irish scrum like a sociopathic schoolboy pulling the wings and legs off bugs.
Thought it would be right up your alley.
You’re bang on about the crazy bench gamble the Irish took. Which made me think this has been coming for so long.
Somehow Porter (and to a lesser extent Furlong) have been allowed to scrum illegally and play bullshit Bill Young games for almost a decade.
Which in turn allowed them to spend more time conditioning themselves to get about the field so they could hit more rucks, make more tackles and most egregiously: do that twinkle toes bullshit that brought them both so much empty praise from the cheerleading chorus pretending to be the Irish rugby press.
It also made it possible for Ireland to field JvdF and not one but two undersized but agile hookers.
This brazen but hugely successful long con - that both Porter & Furlong were Herculean scrummagers - made the Irish intricate multiphase game possible (to say nothing of how it improved their defence.)
Similarly, their game has depended on a cynical approach to the breakdown that amounts to daring the ref to make decisions he doesn’t want to make. Once (if) you find his limit, ride it all game long. I admire this so much I’ve adopted it for the jnr teams I coach.
Until Saturday, no ref had called the Irish bluff at both the scrum and the breakdown in a single game. In the QF Porter was for the first time in the tournament fairly reffed, and their breakdown bullshit became a moot point because Cane led the ABs to dominate the breakdown.
And yet, it’s taken another two years for a ref to apply the laws to Ireland.
The big question is whether this game will have a lasting impact on how Porter & co are reffed so that Leinster & Ireland will from now on have to select bigger hookers, proper locks and go 6-2 on the bench in order to stay competitive or whether refs will simply resume business as usual.
As with the Lood case where refs have continued to ignore leading with the shoulder where impact is not high, I am not holding my breath.
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@Smuts said in Bokke vs Ireland:
@pakman you missed the boks dismantling the Irish scrum like a sociopathic schoolboy pulling the wings and legs off bugs.
Thought it would be right up your alley.
Even I can only watch so much flogging of a dead Irish horse!
You’re bang on about the crazy bench gamble the Irish took. Which made me think this has been coming for so long.
Yep. ABs made a not dissimilar mistake in Chicago in 2016.
Somehow Porter (and to a lesser extent Furlong) have been allowed to scrum illegally and play bullshit Bill Young games for almost a decade.
Furlong has always been a holding option. Porter seems toothless when scrummaging legally but is effective when allowed to angle in under TH's chest.
Which in turn allowed them to spend more time conditioning themselves to get about the field so they could hit more rucks, make more tackles and most egregiously: do that twinkle toes bullshit that brought them both so much empty praise from the cheerleading chorus pretending to be the Irish rugby press.
It also made it possible for Ireland to field JvdF and not one but two undersized but agile hookers.
I don't believe JvdF makes a huge difference, as Kolisi isn't huge, but the first half did make me wonder how good Sheehan is at scrum time.
I think people overstate how much a good scrum is just down to props. Hooker is also very key, and Argentinians used to consider more important than LH. TH lock absolutely crucial, and LH becomes very key if down to seven men.
On the importance of the hooker front, it was noticeable in Boks 2 that ABs started to push Boks back when McAlister replaced Taukei'aho. Mind you, at that stage we had three locks in scrum and RG had played 50 minutes, which is long for him!
This brazen but hugely successful long con - that both Porter & Furlong were Herculean scrummagers - made the Irish intricate multiphase game possible (to say nothing of how it improved their defence.)
That said, the Bok THs are prone to driving up and over. It would have been interesting to see an aerial view of the scrums.
Similarly, their game has depended on a cynical approach to the breakdown that amounts to daring the ref to make decisions he doesn’t want to make. Once (if) you find his limit, ride it all game long. I admire this so much I’ve adopted it for the jnr teams I coach.
That is very true.
Until Saturday, no ref had called the Irish bluff at both the scrum and the breakdown in a single game. In the QF Porter was for the first time in the tournament fairly reffed, and their breakdown bullshit became a moot point because Cane led the ABs to dominate the breakdown.
Spot on.
And yet, it’s taken another two years for a ref to apply the laws to Ireland.
The big question is whether this game will have a lasting impact on how Porter & co are reffed so that Leinster & Ireland will from now on have to select bigger hookers, proper locks and go 6-2 on the bench in order to stay competitive or whether refs will simply resume business as usual.
The success of the Boks scrum ought to focus coaches' minds on the crucial importance of the TH lock, and the need for three proper locks in the 23. Ireland really missing Joe McCarthy, and would have done much better with Henderson on the bench.
As with the Lood case where refs have continued to ignore leading with the shoulder where impact is not high, I am not holding my breath.
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'Whisper it, but the Wallabies could out-scrum the British and Irish Lions this summer'
If they get their selection right, and see Andrew Porter's driving angle penalised, the Wallabies could turn a traditional weakness into their trump card.
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@pakman said in Bokke vs Ireland:
I don't believe JvdF makes a huge difference, as Kolisi isn't huge, but the first half did make me wonder how good Sheehan is at scrum time.
I think people overstate how much a good scrum is just down to props. Hooker is also very key, and Argentinians used to consider more important than LH. TH lock absolutely crucial, and LH becomes very key if down to seven men.
On the importance of the hooker front, it was noticeable in Boks 2 that ABs started to push Boks back when McAlister replaced Taukei'aho. Mind you, at that stage we had three locks in scrum and RG had played 50 minutes, which is long for him!
I agree that the unwashed punditry generally overemphasize individual props when discussing scrum performance. All 8 have a role to play, especially if like Ireland your props are weak as Yank piss.
My point re JvdF & the Irish hookers is that they’re luxuries that can only be accommodated because the Irish front row has not been properly policed. If they start to be then relatively mobile Irish props would start practicing their throwing and JvdF should, at least for matches involving SA, NZ & France, expect to find himself riding the pine to allow a bigger body to man the pumps early doors.
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He’s not wrong even if it does sound like sour grapes
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@MiketheSnow said in Bokke vs Ireland:
He’s not wrong
What is totally absurd is when the ref calls for a scrum after crooked line-out throw.
And the halfback feed to scrum is even more crooked!!!
And gets away with it!
