Ashes 2025/6
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@Chris-B said in Ashes 2025/6:
@Virgil said in Ashes 2025/6:
Also its night and day with the fielding and keeping between the sides.
Unfortunately, that's a primary reason while we'll get our arses handed to us next summer. The Aussies catch pretty much everything and frequently get the sort of runout that Inglis engineered on Stokes - we'll drop four or five catches per match and almost never hit the stumps. (Note to NZ Cricket - it may not yet be too late to fix this!)
Even if we can turn up with Henry, Jamieson, O'Rourke, Sears, Duffy and Santner all fit and firing - they're not as good as what the Aussies can field (and we'll probably play Foulkes and "discover" he's of minimal use in conditions where the ball won't swing).
And our batting line-up will likely have Latham, Conway, Blundell and even Little Kane - guys who are past their best and mostly (hopefully Kane still might) won't cope with Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon - unless injuries or retirements strike.
I'm extremely interested to see which of our pace attack get through to the end of the next WTC cycle.
And in typing that out I've realised we're now almost at the point where we align seasons to what is effectively the World Cup Final of Test Cricket, much like Rugby.
We've got Head, Weatherald, and Labuschagne at 31 which might present a fairly solid top 3.
Smith at 36, Green 26, Carey 34, and Inglis 30 - not sure if the latter will be a regular but he's not done too much wrong.
Starc 35, Boland 36, Cummins 32, Hazlewood 34 - a good group of pace guys to have around*
Lyon at 38 is the old man of the team, and despite getting publicly shitty at being dropped he is the GOAT.*I'm counting out Neser (35) and Doggett (31) at this point. There are probably younger options than Neser in particular
When you look at that list, and think about the careers, it is fairly clear a lot of these guys took their lumps and didn't lock in a spot until their late 20s. Think about Darren Lehmann, who had something like 7000 Shield runs before he made his Test debut, thanks in part to the Waugh-era domination and form of that particular middle order.
Cummins and Hazlewood have shown that injury can strike and so having a few guys bubbling away in Jhye Richardson, Sean Abbott, and some of the younger crowd could help.
While recognising that this England team are a bit shit - thanks mostly to a philosophy that seems to ignore reality - I feel a bit happier that we can survive the loss of one or two of our top pace guys. Better opposition might make me rethink that
At the same time, we need only look at the All Blacks side through the 20teens to understand that rotating in the odd young buck to give them a taste is a very useful exercise in terms of longevity of success. e.g. Todd Murphy or Kuhnemann for Lyon, even in a one-spin-option list.
Hopefully Bailey et al are paying attention.
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@NTA said in Ashes 2025/6:
@Chris-B said in Ashes 2025/6:
@Virgil said in Ashes 2025/6:
Also its night and day with the fielding and keeping between the sides.
Unfortunately, that's a primary reason while we'll get our arses handed to us next summer. The Aussies catch pretty much everything and frequently get the sort of runout that Inglis engineered on Stokes - we'll drop four or five catches per match and almost never hit the stumps. (Note to NZ Cricket - it may not yet be too late to fix this!)
Even if we can turn up with Henry, Jamieson, O'Rourke, Sears, Duffy and Santner all fit and firing - they're not as good as what the Aussies can field (and we'll probably play Foulkes and "discover" he's of minimal use in conditions where the ball won't swing).
And our batting line-up will likely have Latham, Conway, Blundell and even Little Kane - guys who are past their best and mostly (hopefully Kane still might) won't cope with Starc, Cummins, Hazlewood and Lyon - unless injuries or retirements strike.
I'm extremely interested to see which of our pace attack get through to the end of the next WTC cycle.
And in typing that out I've realised we're now almost at the point where we align seasons to what is effectively the World Cup Final of Test Cricket, much like Rugby.
We've got Head, Weatherald, and Labuschagne at 31 which might present a fairly solid top 3.
Smith at 36, Green 26, Carey 34, and Inglis 30 - not sure if the latter will be a regular but he's not done too much wrong.
Starc 35, Boland 36, Cummins 32, Hazlewood 34 - a good group of pace guys to have around*
Lyon at 38 is the old man of the team, and despite getting publicly shitty at being dropped he is the GOAT.*I'm counting out Neser (35) and Doggett (31) at this point. There are probably younger options than Neser in particular
When you look at that list, and think about the careers, it is fairly clear a lot of these guys took their lumps and didn't lock in a spot until their late 20s. Think about Darren Lehmann, who had something like 7000 Shield runs before he made his Test debut, thanks in part to the Waugh-era domination and form of that particular middle order.
Cummins and Hazlewood have shown that injury can strike and so having a few guys bubbling away in Jhye Richardson, Sean Abbott, and some of the younger crowd could help.
While recognising that this England team are a bit shit - thanks mostly to a philosophy that seems to ignore reality - I feel a bit happier that we can survive the loss of one or two of our top pace guys. Better opposition might make me rethink that
At the same time, we need only look at the All Blacks side through the 20teens to understand that rotating in the odd young buck to give them a taste is a very useful exercise in terms of longevity of success. e.g. Todd Murphy or Kuhnemann for Lyon, even in a one-spin-option list.
Hopefully Bailey et al are paying attention.
Yeah it's pretty freaky to think how many guys who'd walk into other test teams had to bide their time to get a shot or got limited chances or no chances at all. Lehman like you mentioned, David Hussey, Stuart Law, Michael Di Vunuto........even wannabe nude model Matt Hayden had to bide his time behind Tubby and Slats.
"Junior" despite a very good record possibly lucky that his twin bro was captain of the side.
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I read McCullum's book a few years back, and one thing that stuck with me is how important it was that he had a more conservative coach like Hesson that would always challenge him on tactics. He talked about that constant challenge meaning they found a really good balance between playing attacking cricket without taking it too far and throwing games away.
With "Bazball" growing a life of it's own, and the breath of fresh air it was for English fans who were frustrated at how negative previous English sides had played, I feel like McCullum isn't being challenged enough on it now. Especially with a captain like Stokes who is also attacking minded.
As @Chris-B pointed out, putting the shots away against Starc and just blunting him while attacking the other bowlers would have been smart, attacking cricket. But instead they just played the same way against all of the Aus bowlers, and Starc with all his class had a field day as a result. If he had someone challenging the approach more in the dressing room, I think they would play a lot smarter cricket.
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@No-Quarter said in Ashes 2025/6:
If he had someone challenging the approach more in the dressing room, I think they would play a lot smarter cricket.
Perfect example was Starc and Boland's partnership, which I think was the longest of the series so far.
Those are the conditions in front of you. Sometimes playing positive is just wearing down the opposition.
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@No-Quarter said in Ashes 2025/6:
I read McCullum's book a few years back, and one thing that stuck with me is how important it was that he had a more conservative coach like Hesson that would always challenge him on tactics. He talked about that constant challenge meaning they found a really good balance between playing attacking cricket without taking it too far and throwing games away.
With "Bazball" growing a life of it's own, and the breath of fresh air it was for English fans who were frustrated at how negative previous English sides had played, I feel like McCullum isn't being challenged enough on it now. Especially with a captain like Stokes who is also attacking minded.
As @Chris-B pointed out, putting the shots away against Starc and just blunting him while attacking the other bowlers would have been smart, attacking cricket. But instead they just played the same way against all of the Aus bowlers, and Starc with all his class had a field day as a result. If he had someone challenging the approach more in the dressing room, I think they would play a lot smarter cricket.
Yeah I think that balance was really key, and was noticeable for us with Kane/Stead that we had the opposite problem where we could get too conservative.
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Boycs articles are outstanding. Again, read them out loud in a Yorkshire accent if possible ( helps if you're working from home )
He's a grumpy old fuck but everything he says is true and he's been there and done that. I didn't know his Ashes record in Oz was that impressive.
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England Lions get pummelled by Australia A to the tune of an innings and 127 runs.
For the Lions, Bethell and Tribe get runs in the 2nd innings but Nathan McSweeney's double in the Aus-A stint sealed it.
The bowlers shared the wickets according to the scorecard.
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@barbarian said in Ashes 2025/6:
I can't really think of a sporting equivalent of England in the (away) Ashes. Every four years arriving with a mixture of confidence, hopefulness and at times arrogance and just getting the piss beaten out of them every time.
The Wallabies haven't won in NZ for a very long time but it doesn't provoke anguish like this. We know our place, we expect failure. It can be disappointing but it's never devastating.
But watching the Poms roll in here, tails up, only to see them go straight onto the canvas... and then the avalanche of opinions, think-pieces, fan vitriol... there's just nothing like it.
Maybe the England football team at every major tournament...?
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getting battered in the Ashes in Australia is unlike any other sporting experience, it just lasts so long and its so impossible to avoid. The sinking feeling of knowing you're going to have to stay off twitter, the BBC website, whatsapp because of all the bloody Aussies you've known in London over the years.
Watching us throw wickets away and place 'clever fields' after a couple of overs is depressing. Joe Root deserves so much better from those around him. I still think this team can win a test or two in this series but i don't think i can bring myself to watch...
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@Dodge Root and Stokes deserve better BUT they've both got to step up as senior players and tell their coach to pull his head in, too.
Watching some of the English commentators in various videos when those wickets are thrown away on bad shots - the despair on their faces - almost makes me feel sorry for them.
Almost...
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@Dodge said in Ashes 2025/6:
getting battered in the Ashes in Australia is unlike any other sporting experience, it just lasts so long and its so impossible to avoid. The sinking feeling of knowing you're going to have to stay off twitter, the BBC website, whatsapp because of all the bloody Aussies you've known in London over the years.
Watching us throw wickets away and place 'clever fields' after a couple of overs is depressing. Joe Root deserves so much better from those around him. I still think this team can win a test or two in this series but i don't think i can bring myself to watch...
its always amusing to me how every 4 years theres an expectation your team will win. Like the previous 15-20 years didnt happen.
On paper the English looked more than capable but you've not won a test in OZ since 2010/11.
Australia are fucking tough to beat at home no matter their situation, they seem to find another level when its the Ashes too. -
@Dodge said in Ashes 2025/6:
getting battered in the Ashes in Australia is unlike any other sporting experience, it just lasts so long and its so impossible to avoid. The sinking feeling of knowing you're going to have to stay off twitter, the BBC website, whatsapp because of all the bloody Aussies you've known in London over the years.
Watching us throw wickets away and place 'clever fields' after a couple of overs is depressing. Joe Root deserves so much better from those around him. I still think this team can win a test or two in this series but i don't think i can bring myself to watch...
They’re more than capable of Bazballing a win when the series is already lost and then they can tell all the doubters they told them so.
Bazball ROCKS !
touching on what @junior said, no country, and I mean NO COUNTRY builds sporting teams up and then sees shit come crashing down like the English. It's in their journalistic DNA and they are the masters at it.
I become a huge football fan whenever England play just for the amusement of watching them inevitiably shit the bed.....it always cracks me up when this tune gets churned out.......
It’s Coming Home: Is England fan anthem Three Lions a dream, boast or way of life?
Whether the song is arrogant or earnest or ironic has become one of the more contested topics of the last few years
Then again, in 1999 Air New Zealand did paint a plane with the Otago/All Black front row so maybe we're almost as bad sometimes.
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@Virgil said in Ashes 2025/6:
Australia are fucking tough to beat at home no matter their situation, they seem to find another level when its the Ashes too.
And yet we've fallen to the West Indies in recent years at the Gabba, and an Indian side that was forced to make bowling changes that turned out to be a masterstroke.
We're not invincible, and this England team isn't that bad in terms of actual skill, but fuck me some of their mental application in what is fairly mild heat is appalling.
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And that there is the parallel to rugby. The Wallabies mental hoodoo at Eden Park, or NZ in general, is the equivalent of England in Australia. Lesser sides have gone to NZ and won. Lesser cricket sides have come to Australia and won.
But the combination of mental block and the lift in the home team for a grudge match is what makes the difference.
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its a great comparison between the Aussie test side vs the poms and the All Blacks vs Wallabies.
How many times have we pumped you guys after playing badly/losing badly the week before?
We always seem to rise especially when its at Eden Park.
You guys are the same when it comes to the Ashes at home.That and the poms are their own worse enemy, dropping catches. Fumbling moments when they were in front (think their 2nd innings at Perth).
Other sides seem to adapt better to playing in Australia too. -
@Virgil said in Ashes 2025/6:
its a great comparison between the Aussie test side vs the poms and the All Blacks vs Wallabies.
How many times have we pumped you guys after playing badly/losing badly the week before?
We always seem to rise especially when its at Eden Park.
You guys are the same when it comes to the Ashes at home.That and the poms are their own worse enemy, dropping catches. Fumbling moments when they were in front (think their 2nd innings at Perth).
Other sides seem to adapt better to playing in Australia too.https://www.espncricinfo.com/series/new-zealand-in-australia-2019-20-1183522
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@NTA said in Ashes 2025/6:
@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:
Then again, in 1999 Air New Zealand did paint a plane with the Otago/All Black front row so maybe we're almost as bad sometimes.
How quickly you all forget 1991 through to 2011...
That sledge was so aggravating for years, especially originating from George Gregan. In recent years I've taken solace that (so far) it's been "never again" for Mr Gregan.
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what has done my head way more than the batting approach has been the bowling "plans". How much short wide shit did they serve up at the 'gabba? the difference in the pitch maps between the two attacks could not have been more stark.
When Scott Boland, and absolute bunny, was occupying the crease they were chucking short shit at him rather than just hitting the top of off and waiting for the inevitable mistake? Boring? Yes. But that's test cricket some times. Chucking short shit at him might make you feel like a tough fluffybunny, but it makes you look stupid.
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@NTA said in Ashes 2025/6:
@MN5 said in Ashes 2025/6:
Then again, in 1999 Air New Zealand did paint a plane with the Otago/All Black front row so maybe we're almost as bad sometimes.
How quickly you all forget 1991 through to 2011...
how long has it been for Australia?
