2019 Rugby World Cup
-
@pukunui said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@Machpants said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
An interesting point, na throw away line in the Torygraph, was that 'preparations to move the England France game were well underway' when it was realised it was going to have to be two, possibly three, games moved. That was impossible. So to make it consistent they canned them both, and have no contingency for the third. So I guess the much vaunted contingency plans talked about pre cup, if this article is correct, only really covered one game getting into trouble.
Which makes sense because I challenge anyone to develop a scenario to fix this weekend's problems.
Play the next day? Change venue a couple of days in advance? Extend the group stages by a week to allow for reserve days (before it starts obviously)?
There are plenty of options. They chose to just cancel games instead.Play the next day where? Change the venues to where? How in the living fuck do you think it's possible to simply extend the RWC by a week?
They're options in your mind because you've no concept of the logistical difficulties in hosting such a tournament.
I don't want to be a dick about this, but your solutions work because they assume far too much and are oblivious to the realities. The stadia were provisionally booked for those dates when the bid was made and upon receiving the hosting, they were booked for those dates. They aren't all held open for the duration of the RWC.
Every participating nation booked accommodation and got access to training facilities years ago. Hotels are booked. Transport now is becoming congested and booked solid as people make plans to deal with the typhoon. Tomorrow most flights won't happen and the trains won't run. How are you going to get to this "other place"?
The compounding factor in all of this is it might have been possible if it was just one game. But there are too many pieces on the board to move at once.
It's like people don't think they haven't been in a war room losing sleep trying to make it work.
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@pukunui said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@Machpants said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
An interesting point, na throw away line in the Torygraph, was that 'preparations to move the England France game were well underway' when it was realised it was going to have to be two, possibly three, games moved. That was impossible. So to make it consistent they canned them both, and have no contingency for the third. So I guess the much vaunted contingency plans talked about pre cup, if this article is correct, only really covered one game getting into trouble.
Which makes sense because I challenge anyone to develop a scenario to fix this weekend's problems.
Play the next day? Change venue a couple of days in advance? Extend the group stages by a week to allow for reserve days (before it starts obviously)?
There are plenty of options. They chose to just cancel games instead.Play the next day where? Change the venues to where? How in the living fuck do you think it's possible to simply extend the RWC by a week?
They're options in your mind because you've no concept of the logistical difficulties in hosting such a tournament.
I don't want to be a dick about this, but your solutions work because they assume far too much and are oblivious to the realities. The stadia were provisionally booked for those dates when the bid was made and upon receiving the hosting, they were booked for those dates. They aren't all held open for the duration of the RWC.
Every participating nation booked accommodation and got access to training facilities years ago. Hotels are booked. Transport now is becoming congested and booked solid as people make plans to deal with the typhoon. Tomorrow most flights won't happen and the trains won't run. How are you going to get to this "other place"?
The compounding factor in all of this is it might have been possible if it was just one game. But there are too many pieces on the board to move at once.
It's like people don't think they haven't been in a war room losing sleep trying to make it work.
Calm down. I simply don’t agree with you that there was no other options in the known universe. That is just bullshit. They cancelled the game 3 days out. That is plenty of time to shift people around a relatively small country on transport systems that are still operating well BEFORE the storm hits.
My point is, if you are happy to give the hosting rights to a country where there is a high probability of this happening, and it was a high probability. This isn’t unforeseen. Then you have to come up with a better plan than “just cancel the game”.
At the start of planning they should have allowed extra days and had alternate locations sorted.
10 fucking years this has been in the planning.
10 years!If they can’t work out how to overcome these issues in 10 years they should never have been given the hosting rights.
-
@pukunui said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@Machpants said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
An interesting point, na throw away line in the Torygraph, was that 'preparations to move the England France game were well underway' when it was realised it was going to have to be two, possibly three, games moved. That was impossible. So to make it consistent they canned them both, and have no contingency for the third. So I guess the much vaunted contingency plans talked about pre cup, if this article is correct, only really covered one game getting into trouble.
Which makes sense because I challenge anyone to develop a scenario to fix this weekend's problems.
Play the next day? Change venue a couple of days in advance? Extend the group stages by a week to allow for reserve days (before it starts obviously)?
There are plenty of options. They chose to just cancel games instead.Now we are hearing about some sort of contingency plans despite it being written in the rules that they can’t play on a different day.
Mate I’ve tried to post a reply without being too obnoxious and the best I can come up with is to plead with you to forward your cv to wr . Obviously for a man of your talents rebooking tv slots , organising transport in a hurricane when flights are grounded , accommodation for teams , officials and fans speaking different languages in a foreign country and being able to predict weather patterns four years out is a bloody breeze .
Unless it isn’t and this is actually the best they can come up with and the “ what if the abs were affected? “scenarios don’t really change my mind about that .I think I failed on the obnoxious part but you probably get my drift .
@jegga said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@pukunui said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@Machpants said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
An interesting point, na throw away line in the Torygraph, was that 'preparations to move the England France game were well underway' when it was realised it was going to have to be two, possibly three, games moved. That was impossible. So to make it consistent they canned them both, and have no contingency for the third. So I guess the much vaunted contingency plans talked about pre cup, if this article is correct, only really covered one game getting into trouble.
Which makes sense because I challenge anyone to develop a scenario to fix this weekend's problems.
Play the next day? Change venue a couple of days in advance? Extend the group stages by a week to allow for reserve days (before it starts obviously)?
There are plenty of options. They chose to just cancel games instead.Now we are hearing about some sort of contingency plans despite it being written in the rules that they can’t play on a different day.
Mate I’ve tried to post a reply without being too obnoxious and the best I can come up with is to plead with you to forward your cv to wr . Obviously for a man of your talents rebooking tv slots , organising transport in a hurricane when flights are grounded , accommodation for teams , officials and fans speaking different languages in a foreign country and being able to predict weather patterns four years out is a bloody breeze .
Unless it isn’t and this is actually the best they can come up with and the “ what if the abs were affected? “scenarios don’t really change my mind about that .I think I failed on the obnoxious part but you probably get my drift .
Equally i think some of you guys would fit right in at WR. The “solution” of giving lots of red cards for poorly executed tackles and the “solution” of just canceling games probably came from the same meeting.
-
@pukunui some big old sliding fantasy world doors there...in this world, we lose to the Boks and then they lose to Italy?
Then, our cancelled game v Italy is somehow bankable despite us losing to Boks and them losing to Italy?
Yea I'd be pissed if it happened to us, but by the same token what else do you do?
WR have made the call (imo 24 hours too early - what is the 'phoon looking like now?) and unfortunately it is what it is.
I am surprised the French aren't making more of it, their game was the most pivotal of the 2 canned.
@taniwharugby said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@pukunui some big old sliding fantasy world doors there...in this world, we lose to the Boks and then they lose to Italy?
Then, our cancelled game v Italy is somehow bankable despite us losing to Boks and them losing to Italy?
Yea I'd be pissed if it happened to us, but by the same token what else do you do?
WR have made the call (imo 24 hours too early - what is the 'phoon looking like now?) and unfortunately it is what it is.
I am surprised the French aren't making more of it, their game was the most pivotal of the 2 canned.
I think the French are OK with being on that side of the QF draw - I reckon they'd back themselves to beat Wales in a QF.
-
Feel almost dirty typing this, but the wisest thing have read about the cancellations is this tweet from Stephen Jones of the Sunday Times:
https://twitter.com/stephenjones9/status/1182330402469335041?s=20
@sparky said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
Feel almost dirty typing this, but the wisest thing have read about the cancellations is this tweet from Stephen Jones of the Sunday Times:
https://twitter.com/stephenjones9/status/1182330402469335041?s=20
If ever there was proof that the ABs had absolutely nothing to do with the call to cancel that matches, this is it - Jones never misses an opportunity to put the boot into the ABs and so surely would have done so were there any truth to the allegation that we had any influence on this decision.
-
I think @pukunui 's point is valid, although being incredibly unlikely. Italy are shit but Japan hadn't done much previously either. Then they beat the Boks, then they beat the Irish. The Italians at least should have the opportunity, as should the Scots.
How about we were unfortunate enough to have 2 games labeled as a draw due to weather and miss out? Weather that might actually be good enough to play in...
@Snowy said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
How about we were unfortunate enough to have 2 games labeled as a draw due to weather and miss out? Weather that might actually be good enough to play in...
Well, the bad news guys is you are out of the RWC. The good news is... here are your Halbergs.
-
@gt12 said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
Fuck all food at the Supermarket, so stopped at the convenie - no bread, water, milk. We are stocked up on Potato chips, wine, and instant donuts though, so let's hope that going to work.
People are taking this very seriously (not me quite so much, but would do I know). My wife tells me that we were at level three evacuation (on 4 you have to leave) for the last typhoon, so we should expect to have to get in the car and have to bolt tomorrow...
Nothing said about the game in Iwate so far, but I'll be surprised if that one happens. Still, looks like it has slowed down, so might take a while to get here.
Stay safe
-
@pukunui said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@Machpants said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
An interesting point, na throw away line in the Torygraph, was that 'preparations to move the England France game were well underway' when it was realised it was going to have to be two, possibly three, games moved. That was impossible. So to make it consistent they canned them both, and have no contingency for the third. So I guess the much vaunted contingency plans talked about pre cup, if this article is correct, only really covered one game getting into trouble.
Which makes sense because I challenge anyone to develop a scenario to fix this weekend's problems.
Play the next day? Change venue a couple of days in advance? Extend the group stages by a week to allow for reserve days (before it starts obviously)?
There are plenty of options. They chose to just cancel games instead.Play the next day where? Change the venues to where? How in the living fuck do you think it's possible to simply extend the RWC by a week?
They're options in your mind because you've no concept of the logistical difficulties in hosting such a tournament.
I don't want to be a dick about this, but your solutions work because they assume far too much and are oblivious to the realities. The stadia were provisionally booked for those dates when the bid was made and upon receiving the hosting, they were booked for those dates. They aren't all held open for the duration of the RWC.
Every participating nation booked accommodation and got access to training facilities years ago. Hotels are booked. Transport now is becoming congested and booked solid as people make plans to deal with the typhoon. Tomorrow most flights won't happen and the trains won't run. How are you going to get to this "other place"?
The compounding factor in all of this is it might have been possible if it was just one game. But there are too many pieces on the board to move at once.
It's like people don't think they haven't been in a war room losing sleep trying to make it work.
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
It's like people don't think they haven't been in a war room losing sleep trying to make it work.
The die was cast once the tournament rules were set.
I'm not sure what contingency work they have been doing because every hypothetical contingency would have come back to "we have this very inflexible set of tournament rules - so we aren't in a position to move the day or venue of anything".
Serious contingency planning would have set out clearly what the minimum requirements were to get a game up in the event of an emergency (i.e. can it be played without a crowd, how far can teams charter/bus in on game day, does it require broadcast etc).
It sounds like they spent the first 12-24 hours spinning their wheels on this and even in the press conference the argument shifted from fan safety, to logistics, to intergrity of the competition - it wasn't entirely clear what element is the sticking point.
If they had such a plan before the tournament they would be able to sit at the press conference and say here are the five things we need to hold the game and this is the one that is the sticking point.
This is moot anyway without tournament regulations to force some flexibility.
-
Read that they have insured for natural disaster but if they reschedule/relocate then they aren't covered. No idea if it's accurate but sounds plausible.
@mofitzy_ said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
Read that they have insured for natural disaster but if they reschedule/relocate then they aren't covered. No idea if it's accurate but sounds plausible.
That would go someway to explaining why the tournament organizer seemed ambivalent about not insignificant refunds to rights holders given France/England was cancelled. That or he may not have slept in 48 hours.
-
-
Read that they have insured for natural disaster but if they reschedule/relocate then they aren't covered. No idea if it's accurate but sounds plausible.
I expect they paid a pretty premium to cover cancellation in typhoon season, event cover can also cover relocation, so I expect that is why they wrote the rules the way they did, as that would have cost more.
Assume there will likely be some liability cover for legal costs to (Scotland)
-
Cheers!
Hardly raining now and we are on the second bottle of wine. Plenty more though.
-
Fuck all food at the Supermarket, so stopped at the convenie - no bread, water, milk. We are stocked up on Potato chips, wine, and instant donuts though, so let's hope that going to work.
People are taking this very seriously (not me quite so much, but would do I know). My wife tells me that we were at level three evacuation (on 4 you have to leave) for the last typhoon, so we should expect to have to get in the car and have to bolt tomorrow...
Nothing said about the game in Iwate so far, but I'll be surprised if that one happens. Still, looks like it has slowed down, so might take a while to get here.
@gt12 said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
Fuck all food at the Supermarket, so stopped at the convenie - no bread, water, milk. We are stocked up on Potato chips, wine, and instant donuts though, so let's hope that going to work.
The essentials
People are taking this very seriously (not me quite so much, but would do I know). My wife tells me that we were at level three evacuation (on 4 you have to leave) for the last typhoon, so we should expect to have to get in the car and have to bolt tomorrow...
Nothing said about the game in Iwate so far, but I'll be surprised if that one happens. Still, looks like it has slowed down, so might take a while to get here.
Isn't that a bad thing? Means the bad weather hangs around longer.
-
@gt12 said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
Fuck all food at the Supermarket, so stopped at the convenie - no bread, water, milk. We are stocked up on Potato chips, wine, and instant donuts though, so let's hope that going to work.
The essentials
People are taking this very seriously (not me quite so much, but would do I know). My wife tells me that we were at level three evacuation (on 4 you have to leave) for the last typhoon, so we should expect to have to get in the car and have to bolt tomorrow...
Nothing said about the game in Iwate so far, but I'll be surprised if that one happens. Still, looks like it has slowed down, so might take a while to get here.
Isn't that a bad thing? Means the bad weather hangs around longer.
-
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
It's like people don't think they haven't been in a war room losing sleep trying to make it work.
The die was cast once the tournament rules were set.
I'm not sure what contingency work they have been doing because every hypothetical contingency would have come back to "we have this very inflexible set of tournament rules - so we aren't in a position to move the day or venue of anything".
Serious contingency planning would have set out clearly what the minimum requirements were to get a game up in the event of an emergency (i.e. can it be played without a crowd, how far can teams charter/bus in on game day, does it require broadcast etc).
It sounds like they spent the first 12-24 hours spinning their wheels on this and even in the press conference the argument shifted from fan safety, to logistics, to intergrity of the competition - it wasn't entirely clear what element is the sticking point.
If they had such a plan before the tournament they would be able to sit at the press conference and say here are the five things we need to hold the game and this is the one that is the sticking point.
This is moot anyway without tournament regulations to force some flexibility.
@rotated said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@antipodean said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
It's like people don't think they haven't been in a war room losing sleep trying to make it work.
The die was cast once the tournament rules were set.
I'm not sure what contingency work they have been doing because every hypothetical contingency would have come back to "we have this very inflexible set of tournament rules - so we aren't in a position to move the day or venue of anything".
Serious contingency planning would have set out clearly what the minimum requirements were to get a game up in the event of an emergency (i.e. can it be played without a crowd, how far can teams charter/bus in on game day, does it require broadcast etc).
It sounds like they spent the first 12-24 hours spinning their wheels on this and even in the press conference the argument shifted from fan safety, to logistics, to intergrity of the competition - it wasn't entirely clear what element is the sticking point.
If they had such a plan before the tournament they would be able to sit at the press conference and say here are the five things we need to hold the game and this is the one that is the sticking point.
This is moot anyway without tournament regulations to force some flexibility.
Maybe it wasn't just one?
-
Read that they have insured for natural disaster but if they reschedule/relocate then they aren't covered. No idea if it's accurate but sounds plausible.
@mofitzy_ said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
Read that they have insured for natural disaster but if they reschedule/relocate then they aren't covered. No idea if it's accurate but sounds plausible.
Sounds like a tinfoil hat theory from someone on twitter
-
@taniwharugby @booboo You are both correct re typhoons as a general rule - they slow down as well as weaken as they go over cooler water (moving north in this case).
"General rule" is a loose term though. They can do all sorts of things that they shouldn't according to the computer models. -
@mofitzy_ said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
Read that they have insured for natural disaster but if they reschedule/relocate then they aren't covered. No idea if it's accurate but sounds plausible.
Sounds like a tinfoil hat theory from someone on twitter
@booboo see above. Relocating is usually an additional cover, so if they didn't take it...
-
@booboo on that link I posted above it looks to be slow moving, but by the same token looks to be a bit smaller.
@taniwharugby said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@booboo on that link I posted above it looks to be slow moving, but by the same token looks to be a bit smaller.
Having lived a few summers in Qld you get used to following the cyclone warnings on BOM.gov.au.
Luckily we're far enough South (unlike @mariner4life ) so we've not been hit full on with a cyclone. Some Ex-TCs have got us bit wet and/or blustered, a couple have slid past, and a couple have veered away late. So very aware of your point @Snowy that they can be unpredictable.
However in terms of (un)predictability the Bureau do it really well, showing updated tracking maps every few hours, with previous, current and predicted intensities and locations at given times.
Can't seem to find the same detail on the JMA website. They have a tracking map but it's too big a scale to try and work out where it's likely to be when.
They don't seem to categorise the Typhoons as Cat 1-5 like TCs in this part of the world. But assume this is Cat 5 (weren't they talking about introducing a Cat 6?), but even if it is weakening to a Cat 4 that's still pretty damn strong.
And intensity isn't necessarily an indicator of likely damage. The most effect we've been subject to from a TC was Oswald (Straya Day floods 2013) and it was an Ex-TC which hardly made it to Cat 1 status.
But do agree with @Snowy about @gt12 's emergency preparedness planning.
-
@taniwharugby said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
@booboo on that link I posted above it looks to be slow moving, but by the same token looks to be a bit smaller.
Having lived a few summers in Qld you get used to following the cyclone warnings on BOM.gov.au.
Luckily we're far enough South (unlike @mariner4life ) so we've not been hit full on with a cyclone. Some Ex-TCs have got us bit wet and/or blustered, a couple have slid past, and a couple have veered away late. So very aware of your point @Snowy that they can be unpredictable.
However in terms of (un)predictability the Bureau do it really well, showing updated tracking maps every few hours, with previous, current and predicted intensities and locations at given times.
Can't seem to find the same detail on the JMA website. They have a tracking map but it's too big a scale to try and work out where it's likely to be when.
They don't seem to categorise the Typhoons as Cat 1-5 like TCs in this part of the world. But assume this is Cat 5 (weren't they talking about introducing a Cat 6?), but even if it is weakening to a Cat 4 that's still pretty damn strong.
And intensity isn't necessarily an indicator of likely damage. The most effect we've been subject to from a TC was Oswald (Straya Day floods 2013) and it was an Ex-TC which hardly made it to Cat 1 status.
But do agree with @Snowy about @gt12 's emergency preparedness planning.
@booboo said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
They don't seem to categorise the Typhoons as Cat 1-5 like TCs in this part of the world. But assume this is Cat 5
They do categorise but yeah it's a different system. Hong Kong have their own on a scale up to ten and not very intuitive (rank of storm is dependent on both location and wind strength - not just strength).
NASA give a category as per the US syatem on their website:
https://blogs.nasa.gov/hurricanes/Some cool satellite images as well.
Hagibis now cat 3 (was 5) and weakening. Seriously massive weather system though.
@booboo said in 2019 Rugby World Cup:
But do agree with @Snowy about @gt12 's emergency preparedness planning.
Weather lovely here but going to head off to the shops now - just in case.
