Springboks v All Blacks 2
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@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@No-Quarter said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
They also need to start RTS at 12. Ennor and Havili cannot compete at the top level, RTS is a world class athelete that will only get better the more he plays.
And he's used to playing in a poor team (Warriors) but is able to stand out amongst the headless chickens around him. Good point.
Yeah, I know he's inexperienced at test level but the other options are just dire, we may as well start someone that at least has the potential to succeed.
@No-Quarter said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@No-Quarter said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
They also need to start RTS at 12. Ennor and Havili cannot compete at the top level, RTS is a world class athelete that will only get better the more he plays.
And he's used to playing in a poor team (Warriors) but is able to stand out amongst the headless chickens around him. Good point.
Yeah, I know he's inexperienced at test level but the other options are just dire, we may as well start someone that at least has the potential to succeed.
Given up on Quinn Tupaea, or have I missed something? He is only 23.
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We should have stuck with Tupaea, yes he made mistakes in the 2nd test, but was marginally better than Havili. He has much better ball carrying and physicality, and they should have built the combination. Havili/Ioane is a crap 12/13 combo.
@Tim said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
We should have stuck with Tupaea, yes he made mistakes in the 2nd test, but was marginally better than Havili. He has much better ball carrying and physicality, and they should have built the combination. Havili/Ioane is a crap 12/13 combo.
oh just saw your post. Yup, but I hope they only play him at 12 and don't make him shift between 12 and 13.
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@Bovidae said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Tim Twice now that Ioane has been subbed and Havili stayed on. I've got no fuckin' idea what Foster is thinking.
I haven't read the match thread, or this thread yet, but I am assuming with the injuries we may see Jordan at fullback and Mo'unga at 1st 5. Old man Coles was worse than Taylor so time to put him out to pasture. No reason not to select Newell either in the 23.
Havili is there for the tactical kicking to win territory. A couple of decent kicks aside, he was used to crash it up.
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Bovidae said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Tim Twice now that Ioane has been subbed and Havili stayed on. I've got no fuckin' idea what Foster is thinking.
I haven't read the match thread, or this thread yet, but I am assuming with the injuries we may see Jordan at fullback and Mo'unga at 1st 5. Old man Coles was worse than Taylor so time to put him out to pasture. No reason not to select Newell either in the 23.
Havili is there for the tactical kicking to win territory. A couple of decent kicks aside, he was used to crash it up.
Didn't Foster say DH is super skilled? If so he needs space or structure or tactics to use those skills. I'm beginning to wonder if miracle practice time is more important to Foster than onfield performance..
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Who's the ref? Hopefully one that doesn't allow disrupting jumpers at the high ball with no intention of catching (I thought they worked that one out years ago when the Bokke first tried it) and one that doesn't reward a jackal if the tackler still has their arms around the tackled player.
It’s ridiculous how Gardner let this happen. The bok winger who got the red card at the end of the match, nearly paralysing BB in the process, should have had a yellow for same offence in the first half. Gardner doesn’t look at it and the result is the ridiculous challenge toward the end of the match.
Only one team was reffed st the breakdown
Why did he leave the scrums to sit there for so long?
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It’s ridiculous how Gardner let this happen. The bok winger who got the red card at the end of the match, nearly paralysing BB in the process, should have had a yellow for same offence in the first half. Gardner doesn’t look at it and the result is the ridiculous challenge toward the end of the match.
Only one team was reffed st the breakdown
Why did he leave the scrums to sit there for so long?
@DaGrubster complaining about the ref is so depressing after a loss. Glad it's an Aussie.
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@DaGrubster complaining about the ref is so depressing after a loss. Glad it's an Aussie.
@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@DaGrubster complaining about the ref is so depressing after a loss. Glad it's an Aussie.
It is a reflection of how far we have sunk that we can feel like everything is against us, including the refs. But we are not a good side right now
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@DaGrubster complaining about the ref is so depressing after a loss. Glad it's an Aussie.
@OomPB said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@DaGrubster complaining about the ref is so depressing after a loss. Glad it's an Aussie.
It must be refreshing for Bok fans to hear NZ whinging after a loss though. I can remember all the SA conspiracy theories (not from all mind) about the refs being lenient towards the ABs as the reasons the Boks lost in years gone by
. The worm has turned 
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@Bovidae said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Tim Twice now that Ioane has been subbed and Havili stayed on. I've got no fuckin' idea what Foster is thinking.
I haven't read the match thread, or this thread yet, but I am assuming with the injuries we may see Jordan at fullback and Mo'unga at 1st 5. Old man Coles was worse than Taylor so time to put him out to pasture. No reason not to select Newell either in the 23.
Havili is there for the tactical kicking to win territory. A couple of decent kicks aside, he was used to crash it up.
@stodders said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Bovidae said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@Tim Twice now that Ioane has been subbed and Havili stayed on. I've got no fuckin' idea what Foster is thinking.
I haven't read the match thread, or this thread yet, but I am assuming with the injuries we may see Jordan at fullback and Mo'unga at 1st 5. Old man Coles was worse than Taylor so time to put him out to pasture. No reason not to select Newell either in the 23.
Havili is there for the tactical kicking to win territory. A couple of decent kicks aside, he was used to crash it up.
- 1 fucking kick. And if you look around it, it was a mongrel punt that bounced beautifully
He was shithouse. Get fucking rid
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@taniwharugby said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo mate, they actually played some good rugby...this team is about to equal that run anyway next week.
Get what you're saying. But I thought that late 90s team was really brittle.
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
Early 70s was shit too. In my lifetime but before my recollection ...
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
I'm starting to believe the opposite. That we've a squad of players either not in form or exposed to Test rugby too early. Simply too many gaps in skills; other nations are finding and developing players while our famous depth is nowhere to be seen.
Predictability in attack shape just compounds the problem so now we don't know who is what.
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@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
I'm starting to believe the opposite. That we've a squad of players either not in form or exposed to Test rugby too early. Simply too many gaps in skills; other nations are finding and developing players while our famous depth is nowhere to be seen.
Predictability in attack shape just compounds the problem so now we don't know who is what.
@antipodean said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
I'm starting to believe the opposite. That we've a squad of players either not in form or exposed to Test rugby too early. Simply too many gaps in skills; other nations are finding and developing players while our famous depth is nowhere to be seen.
Predictability in attack shape just compounds the problem so now we don't know who is what.
IMHO we need to adopt a more rigid gameplan. We look like we have no plan. I remember A Smith backhanded a pass to no one yesterday, in years gone by that would have come off. But these guys don't know where to be, they need to be told
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Where's Razor
@BerniesCorner Sumner
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In test 2 I'd really like us playing on our strengths and their weaknesses. Ever since Hansen this "we worry about our team" schtick really gets me. The opponents work out and exploit our weaknesses and make us play their style (esp Ireland, SA). Why do we let them do this? And why can't we play the refs like they do? Am guesstimating but I expect the penalty ratio is getting worse and worse.
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
In test 2 I'd really like us playing on our strengths and their weaknesses. Ever since Hansen this "we worry about our team" schtick really gets me. The opponents work out and exploit our weaknesses and make us play their style (esp Ireland, SA). Why do we let them do this? And why can't we play the refs like they do? Am guesstimating but I expect the penalty ratio is getting worse and worse.
Ireland for every tackle, breakdown and everything in between were bitching and moaning at the ref. Cane is too passive and needs to voice up. There were so many questionable calls by Gus (whether right or wrong) but Cane needs to make himself heard.
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Fine detail and organisation are going to get us out of this. There is hope. We are not as poor as our recent results suggest.
I am looking forward to a remarkable return of form culminating with SW lifting the Webb Ellis in Paris. -
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
I'm starting to believe the opposite. That we've a squad of players either not in form or exposed to Test rugby too early. Simply too many gaps in skills; other nations are finding and developing players while our famous depth is nowhere to be seen.
Predictability in attack shape just compounds the problem so now we don't know who is what.
@antipodean said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
I'm starting to believe the opposite. That we've a squad of players either not in form or exposed to Test rugby too early. Simply too many gaps in skills; other nations are finding and developing players while our famous depth is nowhere to be seen.
Predictability in attack shape just compounds the problem so now we don't know who is what.
How can they not be in form? Most of the squad played in a SR Final. They played good rugby. They step into the ABs and they turn to shit. Is that because they're out of form or because the coaching strategy is not working? 23 players can't be bad.
Who are the experienced players you propose to pick outside of the ones that are there?I don't think it's depth. There's something fundamentally wrong in the coaching set up.
For all the hype, Gus gifted the Boks a couple of scrum penalties. Our lineouts functioned. We have players but they get into the AB environment and they suck.
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@antipodean said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
@booboo said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
This team, to my mind, is full of decent players who are less than the sum of it's parts.
I'm starting to believe the opposite. That we've a squad of players either not in form or exposed to Test rugby too early. Simply too many gaps in skills; other nations are finding and developing players while our famous depth is nowhere to be seen.
Predictability in attack shape just compounds the problem so now we don't know who is what.
How can they not be in form? Most of the squad played in a SR Final. They played good rugby. They step into the ABs and they turn to shit. Is that because they're out of form or because the coaching strategy is not working? 23 players can't be bad.
Who are the experienced players you propose to pick outside of the ones that are there?I don't think it's depth. There's something fundamentally wrong in the coaching set up.
For all the hype, Gus gifted the Boks a couple of scrum penalties. Our lineouts functioned. We have players but they get into the AB environment and they suck.
Honest question, how do you feel about the frontrow, backrow, midfield and most of the bench that you have right now? Im not saying that they are bad players per se, but from the outside there seems to be a lot of placeholder selections until the long term guy pops up.
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Honest question, how do you feel about the frontrow, backrow, midfield and most of the bench that you have right now? Im not saying that they are bad players per se, but from the outside there seems to be a lot of placeholder selections until the long term guy pops up.
@SidBarret Rieko is a world-class wing, Jordan was the best fullback in the national competition, the top 10 gets 10-20 minutes off the bench, Ardie is a great 7, Cane was captain of a team that wasn't in the top 2.. see where I am going with this?
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@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
In test 2 I'd really like us playing on our strengths and their weaknesses. Ever since Hansen this "we worry about our team" schtick really gets me. The opponents work out and exploit our weaknesses and make us play their style (esp Ireland, SA). Why do we let them do this? And why can't we play the refs like they do? Am guesstimating but I expect the penalty ratio is getting worse and worse.
Ireland for every tackle, breakdown and everything in between were bitching and moaning at the ref. Cane is too passive and needs to voice up. There were so many questionable calls by Gus (whether right or wrong) but Cane needs to make himself heard.
@Joans-Town-Jones said in Springboks v All Blacks 2:
@nostrildamus said in Springboks v All Blacks 2 (Fozzie's Swansong??):
In test 2 I'd really like us playing on our strengths and their weaknesses. Ever since Hansen this "we worry about our team" schtick really gets me. The opponents work out and exploit our weaknesses and make us play their style (esp Ireland, SA). Why do we let them do this? And why can't we play the refs like they do? Am guesstimating but I expect the penalty ratio is getting worse and worse.
Ireland for every tackle, breakdown and everything in between were bitching and moaning at the ref. Cane is too passive and needs to voice up. There were so many questionable calls by Gus (whether right or wrong) but Cane needs to make himself heard.
Yup. Ref gets a free pass on every fucking decision without even being asked one question, he's hardly gonna second guess himself. What Cane let them get away with at the breakdown and in the air was a travesty.
Although if we're not even going to bother being within 20m of contesting a kick, we're not really positioning ourselves to complain.
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@SidBarret Rieko is a world-class wing, Jordan was the best fullback in the national competition, the top 10 gets 10-20 minutes off the bench, Ardie is a great 7, Cane was captain of a team that wasn't in the top 2.. see where I am going with this?
@nostrildamus yeah i get it, but that leaves you to find a different 13 and 8 to start, while still finding solutions for 12 and 6.
My point is that it is clear that their are issues with the coaching (and I would argue it dates back about at least 2017), but it isnt that obvious that just getting any other coach will solve those.
But I've seen good New Zealand coaches solve these issues before. It is hard to remember looking back nobody saw Nonu becoming Nonu when he started at 12 and Brad Thorn was an unconventional solution to the locking issues you had back then. From what i am seeing you guys are not a competent coach away from being good, youd need pretty fucken good one.
