All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
One thing I'm not sure about is this "us vs them" attitude. I can't recall that ever being the modus operandi of the great Aus teams. I remember the difference when that 98 team took the field. They weren't all pumped up like the previous year, they had their heads down and were focussed. You could see it in their eyes. That will ultimately bring success, not trying to get the players to froth at the mouth before each game.Interestingly enough, though, I thought the Wallabies looked much calmer, much more focussed this weekend. It was the All Blacks who looked a bit off kilter, as evidenced by Read's penalty after the Arnold try.
Compared to the second Bled, where we went too hard on the niggle and paid the price. Moore was noticeably different in how he dealt with the referee, too.
So I don't think the off-field chat necessarily equates to what happens on the ground.
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
One thing I'm not sure about is this "us vs them" attitude. I can't recall that ever being the modus operandi of the great Aus teams. I remember the difference when that 98 team took the field. They weren't all pumped up like the previous year, they had their heads down and were focussed. You could see it in their eyes. That will ultimately bring success, not trying to get the players to froth at the mouth before each game.Interestingly enough, though, I thought the Wallabies looked much calmer, much more focussed this weekend. It was the All Blacks who looked a bit off kilter, as evidenced by Read's penalty after the Arnold try.
Compared to the second Bled, where we went too hard on the niggle and paid the price. Moore was noticeably different in how he dealt with the referee, too.
So I don't think the off-field chat necessarily equates to what happens on the ground.
Agree with this.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
One thing I'm not sure about is this "us vs them" attitude. I can't recall that ever being the modus operandi of the great Aus teams. I remember the difference when that 98 team took the field. They weren't all pumped up like the previous year, they had their heads down and were focussed. You could see it in their eyes. That will ultimately bring success, not trying to get the players to froth at the mouth before each game.Interestingly enough, though, I thought the Wallabies looked much calmer, much more focussed this weekend. It was the All Blacks who looked a bit off kilter, as evidenced by Read's penalty after the Arnold try.
Compared to the second Bled, where we went too hard on the niggle and paid the price. Moore was noticeably different in how he dealt with the referee, too.
So I don't think the off-field chat necessarily equates to what happens on the ground.
@barbarian the Moore thing is key I reckon, his communication, leadership and play has been lacking up until that match.
I think the Aussies, like the Argies showed that you attack the breakdown, slow or disrupt the ball to our backs and it affects our flow...yes our ability to counterattack is second to none, but we still play a pretty structured game when it comes down to it. But playing that way for 80 minutes is the challenge for other teams, because a couple of lapses and the game can go from a 5 point margin to 20 in a a very short space.
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@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it has been perceived in some quarters. I think he went a bit too far, sure.
I'm sure there are some that think he's God, but I simply don't see how his behaviour is good for Australian rugby. It's bad enough that the team is losing and I don't see any benefit for the game from Cheika throwing his toys out of the cot.
One thing I'm not sure about is this "us vs them" attitude. I can't recall that ever being the modus operandi of the great Aus teams. I remember the difference when that 98 team took the field. They weren't all pumped up like the previous year, they had their heads down and were focussed. You could see it in their eyes. That will ultimately bring success, not trying to get the players to froth at the mouth before each game.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it has been perceived in some quarters. I think he went a bit too far, sure.
I'm sure there are some that think he's God, but I simply don't see how his behaviour is good for Australian rugby. It's bad enough that the team is losing and I don't see any benefit for the game from Cheika throwing his toys out of the cot.
One thing I'm not sure about is this "us vs them" attitude. I can't recall that ever being the modus operandi of the great Aus teams. I remember the difference when that 98 team took the field. They weren't all pumped up like the previous year, they had their heads down and were focussed. You could see it in their eyes. That will ultimately bring success, not trying to get the players to froth at the mouth before each game.
There were plenty of AB supporters that thought the Wallaby side of 1998-2001 were arrogant, disrespectful, cheats, refs favoured etc. I think I heard it all during that period. The we wuz robbed attitude was alive and well when last minute kicks "robbed us" of the Bledisloe.
I'm not saying everyone had that, but it did persist with some and the whinging did make its way to commentators and journalists.
It certainly did build this us v them feeling amongst the fans and even the players. I recall heaps of niggle in that era. OZ forwards thought they could bully us around because they were high on confidence after the 99 WC win.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel really? over the Wayne Barnes whine?
That has to be one of the more embarrassing drawn out whines?
People still think he was the cause of our loss.
@Hooroo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel really? over the Wayne Barnes whine?
That has to be one of the more embarrassing drawn out whines?
People still think he was the cause of our loss.
Er yes. Unless they've planned a miniseries about that game. Seriously, they made a miniseries about it.
The amusing thing is that if that had happened to Aus in 2007 you can guarantee John Connolly would have had a meltdown at the press conference and Aus fans would not only be bitching about it now but also long into the future as well.
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@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it has been perceived in some quarters. I think he went a bit too far, sure.
I'm sure there are some that think he's God, but I simply don't see how his behaviour is good for Australian rugby. It's bad enough that the team is losing and I don't see any benefit for the game from Cheika throwing his toys out of the cot.
One thing I'm not sure about is this "us vs them" attitude. I can't recall that ever being the modus operandi of the great Aus teams. I remember the difference when that 98 team took the field. They weren't all pumped up like the previous year, they had their heads down and were focussed. You could see it in their eyes. That will ultimately bring success, not trying to get the players to froth at the mouth before each game.
There were plenty of AB supporters that thought the Wallaby side of 1998-2001 were arrogant, disrespectful, cheats, refs favoured etc. I think I heard it all during that period. The we wuz robbed attitude was alive and well when last minute kicks "robbed us" of the Bledisloe.
I'm not saying everyone had that, but it did persist with some and the whinging did make its way to commentators and journalists.
It certainly did build this us v them feeling amongst the fans and even the players. I recall heaps of niggle in that era. OZ forwards thought they could bully us around because they were high on confidence after the 99 WC win.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it has been perceived in some quarters. I think he went a bit too far, sure.
I'm sure there are some that think he's God, but I simply don't see how his behaviour is good for Australian rugby. It's bad enough that the team is losing and I don't see any benefit for the game from Cheika throwing his toys out of the cot.
One thing I'm not sure about is this "us vs them" attitude. I can't recall that ever being the modus operandi of the great Aus teams. I remember the difference when that 98 team took the field. They weren't all pumped up like the previous year, they had their heads down and were focussed. You could see it in their eyes. That will ultimately bring success, not trying to get the players to froth at the mouth before each game.
There were plenty of AB supporters that thought the Wallaby side of 1998-2001 were arrogant, disrespectful, cheats, refs favoured etc. I think I heard it all during that period. The we wuz robbed attitude was alive and well when last minute kicks "robbed us" of the Bledisloe.
I'm not saying everyone had that, but it did persist with some and the whinging did make its way to commentators and journalists.
It certainly did build this us v them feeling amongst the fans and even the players. I recall heaps of niggle in that era. OZ forwards thought they could bully us around because they were high on confidence after the 99 WC win.
People were pissed off at losing, but I can't recall any of the coaches trying to create some kind of siege mentality or lashing out and claiming some kind of tag-team between team and press. I would also add that the pressure Cheika is under is probably nothing compared to what AB coaches face. Look at the shit Jon Hart had to put up with.
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@Hooroo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel really? over the Wayne Barnes whine?
That has to be one of the more embarrassing drawn out whines?
People still think he was the cause of our loss.
Er yes. Unless they've planned a miniseries about that game. Seriously, they made a miniseries about it.
The amusing thing is that if that had happened to Aus in 2007 you can guarantee John Connolly would have had a meltdown at the press conference and Aus fans would not only be bitching about it now but also long into the future as well.
Thanks barbarian.
I didn't notice Moore having a bad game but was he briliant? Kind of the game I'd expect from an international hooker and captain.
But you don't have many other quality hookers do you and is TNP (who I rate) about to leave? -
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@barbarian said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
I'm not saying I agree with it, but that's how it has been perceived in some quarters. I think he went a bit too far, sure.
I'm sure there are some that think he's God, but I simply don't see how his behaviour is good for Australian rugby. It's bad enough that the team is losing and I don't see any benefit for the game from Cheika throwing his toys out of the cot.
One thing I'm not sure about is this "us vs them" attitude. I can't recall that ever being the modus operandi of the great Aus teams. I remember the difference when that 98 team took the field. They weren't all pumped up like the previous year, they had their heads down and were focussed. You could see it in their eyes. That will ultimately bring success, not trying to get the players to froth at the mouth before each game.
There were plenty of AB supporters that thought the Wallaby side of 1998-2001 were arrogant, disrespectful, cheats, refs favoured etc. I think I heard it all during that period. The we wuz robbed attitude was alive and well when last minute kicks "robbed us" of the Bledisloe.
I'm not saying everyone had that, but it did persist with some and the whinging did make its way to commentators and journalists.
It certainly did build this us v them feeling amongst the fans and even the players. I recall heaps of niggle in that era. OZ forwards thought they could bully us around because they were high on confidence after the 99 WC win.
People were pissed off at losing, but I can't recall any of the coaches trying to create some kind of siege mentality or lashing out and claiming some kind of tag-team between team and press. I would also add that the pressure Cheika is under is probably nothing compared to what AB coaches face. Look at the shit Jon Hart had to put up with.
@Rancid-Schnitzel in that time our coaches either were sacked or quit....
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Biggest issue with having a polarising figure like Cheika is when it comes to sponsors. If Cheika insists on being the sole mouthpiece for the Wallabies and continues until the next round of sponsorship negotiations (Qantas up in 2019) it would be very possible to see that Qantas money turn into Tiger Airlines money if the results on the field continue and he is putting up this kind of performance.
I personally don't think he makes it to 2019 for a raft of reasons - not least of which is I've never seen a coach go off like that and have any sort of tenure.
@rotated said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Biggest issue with having a polarising figure like Cheika is when it comes to sponsors. If Cheika insists on being the sole mouthpiece for the Wallabies and continues until the next round of sponsorship negotiations (Qantas up in 2019) it would be very possible to see that Qantas money turn into Tiger Airlines money if the results on the field continue and he is putting up this kind of performance.
Again, that is in opposition to the belief that there is no such thing as bad publicity.
If the Wallabies are getting attention for winning, or whining, its still attention. Public profile, etc.
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Thanks barbarian.
I didn't notice Moore having a bad game but was he briliant? Kind of the game I'd expect from an international hooker and captain.
But you don't have many other quality hookers do you and is TNP (who I rate) about to leave?@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Thanks barbarian.
I didn't notice Moore having a bad game but was he briliant? Kind of the game I'd expect from an international hooker and captain.
But you don't have many other quality hookers do you and is TNP (who I rate) about to leave?He wasn't brilliant, but he was better than he has been all season.
TPN is injured and on his way to the NH, though he has passed the 60 cap threshhold so could come back at any time. Not too much beyond him at the moment, James Hanson and Tolu Latu are the next two in line with young Andrew Ready from the Reds a likely customer as well.
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Thanks barbarian.
I didn't notice Moore having a bad game but was he briliant? Kind of the game I'd expect from an international hooker and captain.
But you don't have many other quality hookers do you and is TNP (who I rate) about to leave?@nostrildamus said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Thanks barbarian.
I didn't notice Moore having a bad game but was he briliant? Kind of the game I'd expect from an international hooker and captain.
But you don't have many other quality hookers do you and is TNP (who I rate) about to leave?Lineout went well. His team had 65% possession. Scrum was solid. Noticed a couple of good runs for hard metres, didn't annoy the ref.
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Although I noticed a pretty blatant attempted shoulder charge/cleanout at one point by Moore, saw clearly at the game, on re-watching it you hear Owens say he missed everyone so it was alright, if he had made contact he might have had a card I reckon.
He seemed to get about pretty well too
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@LagerLout said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Just to add to this, but the Aussies have always performed best when they've had intelligent & astute coaches. Dwyer, McQueen and cough Jones spring to mind. I don't know what other coaches are out there but one who focuses on their own issues would be great start!
Ah... in part, yes. But look at the teams those coaches had. Jones wasn't a coach, he was more of a manager, and he just let what was a very good crop of players do what they do best. Dwyer had a very similar group, but probably added a bit more in terms of teamwork.
Macqueen was probably the best of them in terms of bringing something new and staying ahead of the curve, basically going professional before everyone else knew what it looked like.
But again: Eales leading a hardworking forward pack including (at times) Kearns, Smith, Cockbain, Kefu, and several players well above average. Bolt on a backline of Gregan, Larkham, Horan, Little, Roff, Tune, Burke. Not only handy players but went up against what was probably a slightly disorganised NZRFU (and everyone else) at the time.
@booboo said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
shouldn't the TMO check replays anyway regardless of the homeground producer? TMO sees something it's checked regardless of conversion timing. Just hold the restart until TMO has checked?
If that was to become standard procedure, it starts to look like the NRL.
Someone mentioned an NRL bunker-style review setup. I've heard nothing but bad things about it. Haven't seen it in operation (because NRL).
@Gary said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Then Owen allowed Phipps to put the ball into the second row to try and get the game moving.
Owens allowed sideways feeds from the start on both sides. TJP wasn't even standing straight at the feed - looked like he wanted Phipps to give him a bit of the ol' truncheon!@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But again: Eales leading a hardworking forward pack including (at times) Kearns, Smith, Cockbain, Kefu, and several players well above average.
Owen Finegan! How the hell could you miss that colussus, one of the finest Aussie forwards to play the game
The Wallaby team in that era was hard to dislike. So many class players, it sucked to lose, but at least they earned it. Chalk and cheese to now though, there are few in the current outfit that you'd think would be good over a few beers.
In fact, thinking about it, the Aussies I'd sink a pint with are:
- Moore, decent all round bloke
- Hodge because, stuff
- Genia, cos who doesn't like a yappy halfback
not sure there are many others to be honest.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But again: Eales leading a hardworking forward pack including (at times) Kearns, Smith, Cockbain, Kefu, and several players well above average.
Owen Finegan! How the hell could you miss that colussus, one of the finest Aussie forwards to play the game
The Wallaby team in that era was hard to dislike. So many class players, it sucked to lose, but at least they earned it. Chalk and cheese to now though, there are few in the current outfit that you'd think would be good over a few beers.
In fact, thinking about it, the Aussies I'd sink a pint with are:
- Moore, decent all round bloke
- Hodge because, stuff
- Genia, cos who doesn't like a yappy halfback
not sure there are many others to be honest.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But again: Eales leading a hardworking forward pack including (at times) Kearns, Smith, Cockbain, Kefu, and several players well above average.
Owen Finegan! How the hell could you miss that colussus, one of the finest Aussie forwards to play the game
The Wallaby team in that era was hard to dislike. So many class players, it sucked to lose, but at least they earned it. Chalk and cheese to now though, there are few in the current outfit that you'd think would be good over a few beers.
In fact, thinking about it, the Aussies I'd sink a pint with are:
- Moore, decent all round bloke
- Hodge because, stuff
- Genia, cos who doesn't like a yappy halfback
not sure there are many others to be honest.
Nah they were very easy to dislike. Kearns and Finegan being reason number 1 and 2....
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@nzzp said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But again: Eales leading a hardworking forward pack including (at times) Kearns, Smith, Cockbain, Kefu, and several players well above average.
Owen Finegan! How the hell could you miss that colussus, one of the finest Aussie forwards to play the game
The Wallaby team in that era was hard to dislike. So many class players, it sucked to lose, but at least they earned it. Chalk and cheese to now though, there are few in the current outfit that you'd think would be good over a few beers.
In fact, thinking about it, the Aussies I'd sink a pint with are:
- Moore, decent all round bloke
- Hodge because, stuff
- Genia, cos who doesn't like a yappy halfback
not sure there are many others to be honest.
Nah they were very easy to dislike. Kearns and Finegan being reason number 1 and 2....
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Nah they were very easy to dislike. Kearns and Finegan being reason number 1 and 2....
Ya reckon? Most of the backline, Eales, most people except Kearns (although even he could string a sentence together).
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Eales? Really? Great player, boring human. Can't see him being fun on the schooners. Be as bad as i imagine beers with Richie would be.
If you're getting on the sauce with Melon, you better pack your drinking shoes. and your gambling wallet.
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@NTA said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
But again: Eales leading a hardworking forward pack including (at times) Kearns, Smith, Cockbain, Kefu, and several players well above average.
Owen Finegan! How the hell could you miss that colussus, one of the finest Aussie forwards to play the game
The Wallaby team in that era was hard to dislike. So many class players, it sucked to lose, but at least they earned it. Chalk and cheese to now though, there are few in the current outfit that you'd think would be good over a few beers.
In fact, thinking about it, the Aussies I'd sink a pint with are:
- Moore, decent all round bloke
- Hodge because, stuff
- Genia, cos who doesn't like a yappy halfback
not sure there are many others to be honest.
@nzzp said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Owen Finegan! How the hell could you miss that colussus, one of the finest Aussie forwards to play the game
I didn't mention Melon, because he was the fluffiest of bunnies, truth be told. Let's not forget this is the guy who missed a Super Rugby finals series because he shoed the incumbent Wallaby hooker in the face.
Class niggle merchant, mind. Won a World Cup.
If he was playing today, all the fucking pansies here would be talking about him in the same vein as Hooper's headbutt, Mumm's elbow on poor widdle Brodie, and Moore's whinging.
Which leads me onto the big point: TSF hindsight is heavily tinged with gold when it comes to that Wallabies team/era.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v Wallabies at Eden Park.:
Eales? Really? Great player, boring human. Can't see him being fun on the schooners. Be as bad as i imagine beers with Richie would be.
Beers? You're optimistic - reckon you'd be lucky to get one beer in. Some form of wine I assume, and a long discussion about managed funds and aviation or some shit.
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Greegs is a very private guy. Amiable, but guarded, much like he was as Wallabies skipper.
While I loved jeering any time he was in a Brumbies shirt, he was an all-time legend in gold (even if Whitaker was better than him two seasons straight mutter mutter)
Still gets a massive wrap from me for his post-RWC2003 losing speech. Big smile "Helluva game, wasn't it?"
