Six Nations 2017
-
@Crucial It's one of the huge differences I noticed when I moved over. Mostly with forwards, however an offload in the tackle to a player was often met by a knock on due to it being the last thing they expect, plus them not advancing into positions/gaps to take advantage of an offload. Try and run a shoulder to take an offload from a forward? 90℅ of the time = no chance.
@Bones said in Six Nations 2017:
@Crucial It's one of the huge differences I noticed when I moved over. Mostly with forwards, however an offload in the tackle to a player was often met by a knock on due to it being the last thing they expect, plus them not advancing into positions/gaps to take advantage of an offload. Try and run a shoulder to take an offload from a forward? 90℅ of the time = no chance.
I find that I have already called the instruction to go wide to the player on the TV about a second before he does. Admittedly I get a different view to him but you can see they have usually identified space but are just debating on whether to attack it.
-
@Bones said in Six Nations 2017:
@Crucial It's one of the huge differences I noticed when I moved over. Mostly with forwards, however an offload in the tackle to a player was often met by a knock on due to it being the last thing they expect, plus them not advancing into positions/gaps to take advantage of an offload. Try and run a shoulder to take an offload from a forward? 90℅ of the time = no chance.
I find that I have already called the instruction to go wide to the player on the TV about a second before he does. Admittedly I get a different view to him but you can see they have usually identified space but are just debating on whether to attack it.
@Crucial said in Six Nations 2017:
@Bones said in Six Nations 2017:
@Crucial It's one of the huge differences I noticed when I moved over. Mostly with forwards, however an offload in the tackle to a player was often met by a knock on due to it being the last thing they expect, plus them not advancing into positions/gaps to take advantage of an offload. Try and run a shoulder to take an offload from a forward? 90℅ of the time = no chance.
I find that I have already called the instruction to go wide to the player on the TV about a second before he does. Admittedly I get a different view to him but you can see they have usually identified space but are just debating on whether to attack it.
Imagine what it's like to be me. During my playing career I was extraordinarily quick to see when it was "on", but was generally unable to execute because of my crap hands. It's kind of like the rugby equivalent of locked-in syndrome.
-
@Crucial It's one of the huge differences I noticed when I moved over. Mostly with forwards, however an offload in the tackle to a player was often met by a knock on due to it being the last thing they expect, plus them not advancing into positions/gaps to take advantage of an offload. Try and run a shoulder to take an offload from a forward? 90℅ of the time = no chance.
@Bones my experience was similar to yours, but also to quite a few, just some basic skills, a lot didn't come naturally and then trying to teach them proper touch rugby, cos that's what you play when warming up, again, the nuances that seem natural to us and Aussies, were not there in many cases. (I realize this is a generalized statement based on a limited sample size)
We had 1 guy, lightning fast, yet caught the ball maybe 50% of the time on a good day.
-
@Bones my experience was similar to yours, but also to quite a few, just some basic skills, a lot didn't come naturally and then trying to teach them proper touch rugby, cos that's what you play when warming up, again, the nuances that seem natural to us and Aussies, were not there in many cases. (I realize this is a generalized statement based on a limited sample size)
We had 1 guy, lightning fast, yet caught the ball maybe 50% of the time on a good day.
@taniwharugby You just summed up my schoolboy rugby career in one sentence. Except maybe drop 50% to around 25%.
-
so, English types, what did you think of Itoje at 6? While i understand it wasn't his best game, do you think it's his best spot? From the little i have seen, his work rate and athleticism is what makes him a stand out at lock, while those same levels are almost expectation at 6. I get he's a little short at lock, but surely that point of difference is beneficial over all for your pack? They were worked over on the ground in that game.
His lineout work in the last quarter was fucking excellent though, clean hands under pressure making sure he provided plenty of ball.
-
I see a lot of English supporters lamenting the difference between their depth at lock and blindside, but moving him to flanker in expectation that he'll turn into a Jones is a mistake. He's an athletic lock with the capability to be truly world-class; leave him in his best position.
-
so, English types, what did you think of Itoje at 6? While i understand it wasn't his best game, do you think it's his best spot? From the little i have seen, his work rate and athleticism is what makes him a stand out at lock, while those same levels are almost expectation at 6. I get he's a little short at lock, but surely that point of difference is beneficial over all for your pack? They were worked over on the ground in that game.
His lineout work in the last quarter was fucking excellent though, clean hands under pressure making sure he provided plenty of ball.
Itoje has played a lot of club rugby at 6 for Sarries, so it's not a completely left field selection and he didn't have that bad a game there. However I can't really see him starting there if Haskell and Robshaw are fully fit as they are both better blind sides. He's certainly a better lock and as you say his athleticism there more than makes up for being a few inches shorter than a lot of test locks.
-
I see a lot of English supporters lamenting the difference between their depth at lock and blindside, but moving him to flanker in expectation that he'll turn into a Jones is a mistake. He's an athletic lock with the capability to be truly world-class; leave him in his best position.
Not so sure in this case. Our bench options here were a half fit Haskell and Harrison. Starting Itoje at six was probably the right call for me, given the options available.
-
so, English types, what did you think of Itoje at 6? While i understand it wasn't his best game, do you think it's his best spot? From the little i have seen, his work rate and athleticism is what makes him a stand out at lock, while those same levels are almost expectation at 6. I get he's a little short at lock, but surely that point of difference is beneficial over all for your pack? They were worked over on the ground in that game.
His lineout work in the last quarter was fucking excellent though, clean hands under pressure making sure he provided plenty of ball.
@mariner4life I felt that putting Itoje at 6 lost us a little at lock and lost us a little in the back row. He was not a disaster and as has been pointed out he's done a job for Saracens at 6 a fair bit. At international level though, being able to do a job is not really enough, you have to be outstanding. He is an outstanding lock, keep him there and I think that barring injuries that is what Jones will now do.
I was shouting at the TV to put Haskell on and move Itoje into the engine room a good 20 minutes (well more like 58.65% of the way through the match) before Eddie made the call.
-
Well Eddie has gone all George W Bush with his latest great quote
There is a certain story people like to paint when you are playing Wales. We want to paint our own picture. And the picture we paint isn’t going to be the picture that was painted in the past.”
-
Well Eddie has gone all George W Bush with his latest great quote
There is a certain story people like to paint when you are playing Wales. We want to paint our own picture. And the picture we paint isn’t going to be the picture that was painted in the past.”
@Crucial That's a lot of paint.
-
When hyping up Itoje it would be wise to remember a few years back when Courtney Lawes was the next big thing in world rugby.
Itoje would comfortably win a 'who has had the most hype' battle with Lawes.
Lawes would also be under pressure from Ford and Launchbury on the front from an England perspective.
-
Itoje would comfortably win a 'who has had the most hype' battle with Lawes.
Lawes would also be under pressure from Ford and Launchbury on the front from an England perspective.
@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
-
@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
Not at all. I think Launchbury is great. Just referring to the hype they received when ermerging, rather than how good they turned out.
For me Itoje has received more than any English player in the last decade. Remains to be seen whether he'll live up to it, but he's definitely had the column inches and has made a decent enough start.
-
Not at all. I think Launchbury is great. Just referring to the hype they received when ermerging, rather than how good they turned out.
For me Itoje has received more than any English player in the last decade. Remains to be seen whether he'll live up to it, but he's definitely had the column inches and has made a decent enough start.
@Margin_Walker Ah. Misunderstanding. OK, as you were.
-
@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2017:
@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
Lawes seems to be excellent at smashing small backs who are in the middle of passing.
-
Not at all. I think Launchbury is great. Just referring to the hype they received when ermerging, rather than how good they turned out.
For me Itoje has received more than any English player in the last decade. Remains to be seen whether he'll live up to it, but he's definitely had the column inches and has made a decent enough start.
@Margin_Walker Speaking of players hyped beyond reason* on their way up, this is another chapter for Danny's memoirs... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38891475
(* not to imply that he wasn't the most gifted English flyhalf of his generation. Because in my view, having followed his progress at every level, he was. In some parallel universe Brian Ashton built a team around him, and all was well. But such poor judgment off the park, it seems)
-
When hyping up Itoje it would be wise to remember a few years back when Courtney Lawes was the next big thing in world rugby.
@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
-
@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
@Kiwidom In fairness to Sinbad, he was broken a lot of the times when he might have had an opportunity to show his talents on the international stage, and on the occasions he wasn't, the England management (misguidedly) decided they didn't need him. So unless you watched a lot of Glaaaawster games through the noughties you could be forgiven for wondering what the buzz was all about. Incidentlally, it was the dummy pop pass and regather before he got to Lomu that was the clever bit, after that it was just an outside arc and a foot race., which he would generally have been favourite to win.
