Six Nations 2017
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I see a lot of English supporters lamenting the difference between their depth at lock and blindside, but moving him to flanker in expectation that he'll turn into a Jones is a mistake. He's an athletic lock with the capability to be truly world-class; leave him in his best position.
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so, English types, what did you think of Itoje at 6? While i understand it wasn't his best game, do you think it's his best spot? From the little i have seen, his work rate and athleticism is what makes him a stand out at lock, while those same levels are almost expectation at 6. I get he's a little short at lock, but surely that point of difference is beneficial over all for your pack? They were worked over on the ground in that game.
His lineout work in the last quarter was fucking excellent though, clean hands under pressure making sure he provided plenty of ball.
Itoje has played a lot of club rugby at 6 for Sarries, so it's not a completely left field selection and he didn't have that bad a game there. However I can't really see him starting there if Haskell and Robshaw are fully fit as they are both better blind sides. He's certainly a better lock and as you say his athleticism there more than makes up for being a few inches shorter than a lot of test locks.
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I see a lot of English supporters lamenting the difference between their depth at lock and blindside, but moving him to flanker in expectation that he'll turn into a Jones is a mistake. He's an athletic lock with the capability to be truly world-class; leave him in his best position.
Not so sure in this case. Our bench options here were a half fit Haskell and Harrison. Starting Itoje at six was probably the right call for me, given the options available.
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so, English types, what did you think of Itoje at 6? While i understand it wasn't his best game, do you think it's his best spot? From the little i have seen, his work rate and athleticism is what makes him a stand out at lock, while those same levels are almost expectation at 6. I get he's a little short at lock, but surely that point of difference is beneficial over all for your pack? They were worked over on the ground in that game.
His lineout work in the last quarter was fucking excellent though, clean hands under pressure making sure he provided plenty of ball.
@mariner4life I felt that putting Itoje at 6 lost us a little at lock and lost us a little in the back row. He was not a disaster and as has been pointed out he's done a job for Saracens at 6 a fair bit. At international level though, being able to do a job is not really enough, you have to be outstanding. He is an outstanding lock, keep him there and I think that barring injuries that is what Jones will now do.
I was shouting at the TV to put Haskell on and move Itoje into the engine room a good 20 minutes (well more like 58.65% of the way through the match) before Eddie made the call.
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Well Eddie has gone all George W Bush with his latest great quote
There is a certain story people like to paint when you are playing Wales. We want to paint our own picture. And the picture we paint isn’t going to be the picture that was painted in the past.”
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Well Eddie has gone all George W Bush with his latest great quote
There is a certain story people like to paint when you are playing Wales. We want to paint our own picture. And the picture we paint isn’t going to be the picture that was painted in the past.”
@Crucial That's a lot of paint.
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When hyping up Itoje it would be wise to remember a few years back when Courtney Lawes was the next big thing in world rugby.
Itoje would comfortably win a 'who has had the most hype' battle with Lawes.
Lawes would also be under pressure from Ford and Launchbury on the front from an England perspective.
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Itoje would comfortably win a 'who has had the most hype' battle with Lawes.
Lawes would also be under pressure from Ford and Launchbury on the front from an England perspective.
@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
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@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
Not at all. I think Launchbury is great. Just referring to the hype they received when ermerging, rather than how good they turned out.
For me Itoje has received more than any English player in the last decade. Remains to be seen whether he'll live up to it, but he's definitely had the column inches and has made a decent enough start.
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Not at all. I think Launchbury is great. Just referring to the hype they received when ermerging, rather than how good they turned out.
For me Itoje has received more than any English player in the last decade. Remains to be seen whether he'll live up to it, but he's definitely had the column inches and has made a decent enough start.
@Margin_Walker Ah. Misunderstanding. OK, as you were.
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@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2017:
@Margin_Walker I think you're being a bit unfair to Launchbury who has had some great all round games for both club and country. Lawes hype is all about the big hits and in this I feel a wee bit embarrassed as he's no Jerry Collins in the tackle.
Lawes seems to be excellent at smashing small backs who are in the middle of passing.
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Not at all. I think Launchbury is great. Just referring to the hype they received when ermerging, rather than how good they turned out.
For me Itoje has received more than any English player in the last decade. Remains to be seen whether he'll live up to it, but he's definitely had the column inches and has made a decent enough start.
@Margin_Walker Speaking of players hyped beyond reason* on their way up, this is another chapter for Danny's memoirs... http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-38891475
(* not to imply that he wasn't the most gifted English flyhalf of his generation. Because in my view, having followed his progress at every level, he was. In some parallel universe Brian Ashton built a team around him, and all was well. But such poor judgment off the park, it seems)
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When hyping up Itoje it would be wise to remember a few years back when Courtney Lawes was the next big thing in world rugby.
@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
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@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
@Kiwidom In fairness to Sinbad, he was broken a lot of the times when he might have had an opportunity to show his talents on the international stage, and on the occasions he wasn't, the England management (misguidedly) decided they didn't need him. So unless you watched a lot of Glaaaawster games through the noughties you could be forgiven for wondering what the buzz was all about. Incidentlally, it was the dummy pop pass and regather before he got to Lomu that was the clever bit, after that it was just an outside arc and a foot race., which he would generally have been favourite to win.
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I think it's great that fans have a player in their side that they consider the best around. I think a bit of hype adds something to following the team. It's not like we in NZ don't fall over ourselves to anoint all our players as the best in their position, even when they are in ordinary form.
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I think it's great that fans have a player in their side that they consider the best around. I think a bit of hype adds something to following the team. It's not like we in NZ don't fall over ourselves to anoint all our players as the best in their position, even when they are in ordinary form.
@mariner4life but but but they play for the best team, which makes them the best, Shirley?
Always easier to make claims like that of players you watch more than others, which is why we struggle with claims some players are better, and vice versa.
The added intrigue is that while England are in good form on a streak, they are yet to play the ABs so there are plenty of twats who rubbish their record as it doesn't include having played the ABs (similarly the SA 2007 RWC win)
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@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
@Kiwidom said in Six Nations 2017:
@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
That (bolded) sort of comment always makes me laugh. Certainly there are danger men but rugby is first and foremost a team game. Even the likes of Dan Carter would struggle to make an impact in a team of flids.
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@Kiwidom said in Six Nations 2017:
@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
That (bolded) sort of comment always makes me laugh. Certainly there are danger men but rugby is first and foremost a team game. Even the likes of Dan Carter would struggle to make an impact in a team of flids.
@Catogrande said in Six Nations 2017:
@Kiwidom said in Six Nations 2017:
@profitius definitely agree on the hype thing about Itoje. Had a Welshman tell me before Xmas that Itoje is better than anyone we have in the Southern hemisphere and we should be very worried when he makes the Lions tour squad! Only time will tell I guess but one season doesn't make u the man, and I think back to others like James Simpson Daniel (who stepped past Jonah once in a Babas game)... Tom Varndell (quickest man alive)... Andrew Sheridan (who was gonna destroy Hayman apparently ).. And good ol Danny- never far from the news - Cipriani to name a few
That (bolded) sort of comment always makes me laugh. Certainly there are danger men but rugby is first and foremost a team game. Even the likes of Dan Carter would struggle to make an impact in a team of flids.
Which he is proving this season
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I'm not sold on the idea Itoje has got more hype in England than, say, Ardie Savea got last year in NZ... every country hypes up their players. NZ is at least as bad, if not worse, than anywhere else.
And I'd still bet my house on Itoje winning at least a couple of world player of the year awards before he is done. Tho' it looks like he'll be at 6 again this weekend, with Harrison at 7. Tom Woods is broken & Haskel apparently still not quite match fit.
