Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions
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@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@MiketheSnow said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
Murray, Sexton was the expected half-back partnership.
I'll be very surprised if that's the case if Farrell is fit.
All three will feature in the 23 if fit. There were various permutations mooted with Farrell at 12 with the option to move to 10 if the combination didn't work.
Sure there were a couple of spots where there was a clear battle (Hogg's inclusion if fit being another) but Gatland hardly declared all spots open and is going to pick the test team on merit. Providing the players take a passing interest in rugby they would have been able to pick the test team before they got on the plane well before the squad split.
He's certainly picking a number of spots on merit.
Coming in both Best and Owens were ahead of George but it appears George is now in pole.
Likewise with O'Mahoney.
Te'o, despite his inexperience, is in because of form.
And Nowell and Williams are rightly nowhere near the 23
@MiketheSnow Agree with all that except that I think Williams might still make the 23 - none of the outside backs have thus far covered themselves in glory.
I would add that I think Marler and Sinkler have made a very good case for at least bench spots, when most people would have said before the tour that they were dirt trackers-in-waiting. Surprisingly, they've looked like the best scrummaging unit of the 3 front rows.
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@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Stargazer Did the opposition want to sing a song after it again?
Not having a dig but trying to understand that comment.
I am guessing you are confusing Powhiri with Kapa Haka with Haka
When the Lions sung a song that was part of Powhiri, a welcome ceremony. After a speech a song is sung in support of the speaker.
During Kapa Haka all sorts of stuff is done including singing
What you are seeing in that clip is Haka (which can be a part of Kapa Haka) or, as you will have seen the most, performed by itself as a show of pride, honour and challenge
Hope I have that all right
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@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
There's been a lot of talk that the match day squad and particularly the run on XV was pre-selected in the main AND that the pre-selection favoured Gatland's go to boys. We shall see. But if, if, I were to suggest that this was the case then the blokes I would be looking at would be AWJ, Warburton, Davies, Williams as guys that would likely get picked come what may and perhaps don't merit it. Of those I'd say that Warburton has a good case for inclusion on merit, AWJ was off colour but has risen to the occasion (being a second half penalty magnet against the Highlanders aside) and that Davies has done little wrong but has not really shone either. It would have been interesting to see what happened if Hogg was fit and firing and also if Billy Vunipola was on tour but that is just speculation to feed the conspiracy theorists.
We are all very good armchair sectors though and all have our national biases but in short and despite Gatland saying all places are up for grabs, any coach worth his salt would have a good idea who is in his test squad before embarking. The difference is that with most tours there is already a hierarchy and various degrees of expectation. A Lions tour is different. Here we are talking a large squad of already experienced international players and there is no established hierarchy. In some ways it's a bastard of a job.
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@Crucial No, I was referring to that time Wales wanted to sing Bread of Heaven (?) after the Haha so the All Blacks did it in their changing room instead.
@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Crucial No, I was referring to that time Wales wanted to sing Bread of Heaven (?) after the Haha so the All Blacks did it in their changing room instead.
Are you sure? I thought the issue was they wanted to change around the anthems and haka order? ie do the haka first then anthems.
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@MiketheSnow Agree with all that except that I think Williams might still make the 23 - none of the outside backs have thus far covered themselves in glory.
I would add that I think Marler and Sinkler have made a very good case for at least bench spots, when most people would have said before the tour that they were dirt trackers-in-waiting. Surprisingly, they've looked like the best scrummaging unit of the 3 front rows.
@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@MiketheSnow Agree with all that except that I think Williams might still make the 23 - none of the outside backs have thus far covered themselves in glory.
I would add that I think Marler and Sinkler have made a very good case for at least bench spots, when most people would have said before the tour that they were dirt trackers-in-waiting. Surprisingly, they've looked like the best scrummaging unit of the 3 front rows.
Yes both Marler and Sinckler have seized their chance.
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@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
There's been a lot of talk that the match day squad and particularly the run on XV was pre-selected in the main AND that the pre-selection favoured Gatland's go to boys. We shall see. But if, if, I were to suggest that this was the case then the blokes I would be looking at would be AWJ, Warburton, Davies, Williams as guys that would likely get picked come what may and perhaps don't merit it. Of those I'd say that Warburton has a good case for inclusion on merit, AWJ was off colour but has risen to the occasion (being a second half penalty magnet against the Highlanders aside) and that Davies has done little wrong but has not really shone either. It would have been interesting to see what happened if Hogg was fit and firing and also if Billy Vunipola was on tour but that is just speculation to feed the conspiracy theorists.
We are all very good armchair sectors though and all have our national biases but in short and despite Gatland saying all places are up for grabs, any coach worth his salt would have a good idea who is in his test squad before embarking. The difference is that with most tours there is already a hierarchy and various degrees of expectation. A Lions tour is different. Here we are talking a large squad of already experienced international players and there is no established hierarchy. In some ways it's a bastard of a job.
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
There's been a lot of talk that the match day squad and particularly the run on XV was pre-selected in the main AND that the pre-selection favoured Gatland's go to boys. We shall see. But if, if, I were to suggest that this was the case then the blokes I would be looking at would be AWJ, Warburton, Davies, Williams as guys that would likely get picked come what may and perhaps don't merit it. Of those I'd say that Warburton has a good case for inclusion on merit, AWJ was off colour but has risen to the occasion (being a second half penalty magnet against the Highlanders aside) and that Davies has done little wrong but has not really shone either. It would have been interesting to see what happened if Hogg was fit and firing and also if Billy Vunipola was on tour but that is just speculation to feed the conspiracy theorists.
We are all very good armchair sectors though and all have our national biases but in short and despite Gatland saying all places are up for grabs, any coach worth his salt would have a good idea who is in his test squad before embarking. The difference is that with most tours there is already a hierarchy and various degrees of expectation. A Lions tour is different. Here we are talking a large squad of already experienced international players and there is no established hierarchy. In some ways it's a bastard of a job.
Hogg would have been an interesting one.
On form he offers far more than Halfpenny, however Halfpenny is your banker when it comes to kicking.
With Farrell missing that shot against the Highlanders, that could well have made Gatland's mind up regardless of Hogg's injury.
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@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
There's been a lot of talk that the match day squad and particularly the run on XV was pre-selected in the main AND that the pre-selection favoured Gatland's go to boys. We shall see. But if, if, I were to suggest that this was the case then the blokes I would be looking at would be AWJ, Warburton, Davies, Williams as guys that would likely get picked come what may and perhaps don't merit it. Of those I'd say that Warburton has a good case for inclusion on merit, AWJ was off colour but has risen to the occasion (being a second half penalty magnet against the Highlanders aside) and that Davies has done little wrong but has not really shone either. It would have been interesting to see what happened if Hogg was fit and firing and also if Billy Vunipola was on tour but that is just speculation to feed the conspiracy theorists.
We are all very good armchair sectors though and all have our national biases but in short and despite Gatland saying all places are up for grabs, any coach worth his salt would have a good idea who is in his test squad before embarking. The difference is that with most tours there is already a hierarchy and various degrees of expectation. A Lions tour is different. Here we are talking a large squad of already experienced international players and there is no established hierarchy. In some ways it's a bastard of a job.
Hogg would have been an interesting one.
On form he offers far more than Halfpenny, however Halfpenny is your banker when it comes to kicking.
With Farrell missing that shot against the Highlanders, that could well have made Gatland's mind up regardless of Hogg's injury.
@MiketheSnow said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
There's been a lot of talk that the match day squad and particularly the run on XV was pre-selected in the main AND that the pre-selection favoured Gatland's go to boys. We shall see. But if, if, I were to suggest that this was the case then the blokes I would be looking at would be AWJ, Warburton, Davies, Williams as guys that would likely get picked come what may and perhaps don't merit it. Of those I'd say that Warburton has a good case for inclusion on merit, AWJ was off colour but has risen to the occasion (being a second half penalty magnet against the Highlanders aside) and that Davies has done little wrong but has not really shone either. It would have been interesting to see what happened if Hogg was fit and firing and also if Billy Vunipola was on tour but that is just speculation to feed the conspiracy theorists.
We are all very good armchair sectors though and all have our national biases but in short and despite Gatland saying all places are up for grabs, any coach worth his salt would have a good idea who is in his test squad before embarking. The difference is that with most tours there is already a hierarchy and various degrees of expectation. A Lions tour is different. Here we are talking a large squad of already experienced international players and there is no established hierarchy. In some ways it's a bastard of a job.
Hogg would have been an interesting one.
On form he offers far more than Halfpenny, however Halfpenny is your banker when it comes to kicking.
With Farrell missing that shot against the Highlanders, that could well have made Gatland's mind up regardless of Hogg's injury.
I'd be surprised if one bad kick after so much good place kicking, often in pressure conditions would sway Gatland. But it's all moot now really with Hogg goneski. What will be interesting is that fi both Farrell and Halfpenny are picked, who will be the place kicker.
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@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Crucial No, I was referring to that time Wales wanted to sing Bread of Heaven (?) after the Haha so the All Blacks did it in their changing room instead.
Are you sure? I thought the issue was they wanted to change around the anthems and haka order? ie do the haka first then anthems.
@Milk said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Crucial No, I was referring to that time Wales wanted to sing Bread of Heaven (?) after the Haha so the All Blacks did it in their changing room instead.
Are you sure? I thought the issue was they wanted to change around the anthems and haka order? ie do the haka first then anthems.
The issue was the ABs agreed to perform the Haka before the Welsh Anthem in 2005 to recreate the first ABs v Wales test in 1905. This was where singing national anthems before sporting events originated to my knowledge.
When 2006 came along the Welsh said "we liked that order last time, let's do that again" and bleated in the press about an unfair advantage. The ABs refused so we got the dressing room Haka which regrettably was filmed by Sky.
That is one of the reasons why the next test between the two nations in 2008 had an epic staredown - Wales relented but still wanted to get the last word in.
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@MiketheSnow said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@rotated said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
An inevitable shame if the first bit is true. The thing that can split the camp is if this was perceived to be the situation from the get go. Gatland has been at pains to ensure this is not the case, so let's hope there is no splintering of the tour party.
You don't thing some in the squad would perceive the first test 23 being completely preordained?
Based off the team to play the Maroi it is going to be exactly what was expected going into the tour barring injury - and the performances so far on tour have been poor.
There's been a lot of talk that the match day squad and particularly the run on XV was pre-selected in the main AND that the pre-selection favoured Gatland's go to boys. We shall see. But if, if, I were to suggest that this was the case then the blokes I would be looking at would be AWJ, Warburton, Davies, Williams as guys that would likely get picked come what may and perhaps don't merit it. Of those I'd say that Warburton has a good case for inclusion on merit, AWJ was off colour but has risen to the occasion (being a second half penalty magnet against the Highlanders aside) and that Davies has done little wrong but has not really shone either. It would have been interesting to see what happened if Hogg was fit and firing and also if Billy Vunipola was on tour but that is just speculation to feed the conspiracy theorists.
We are all very good armchair sectors though and all have our national biases but in short and despite Gatland saying all places are up for grabs, any coach worth his salt would have a good idea who is in his test squad before embarking. The difference is that with most tours there is already a hierarchy and various degrees of expectation. A Lions tour is different. Here we are talking a large squad of already experienced international players and there is no established hierarchy. In some ways it's a bastard of a job.
Hogg would have been an interesting one.
On form he offers far more than Halfpenny, however Halfpenny is your banker when it comes to kicking.
With Farrell missing that shot against the Highlanders, that could well have made Gatland's mind up regardless of Hogg's injury.
I'd be surprised if one bad kick after so much good place kicking, often in pressure conditions would sway Gatland. But it's all moot now really with Hogg goneski. What will be interesting is that fi both Farrell and Halfpenny are picked, who will be the place kicker.
@Catogrande I am ready to put some internet points on Halfpenny
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@Catogrande I am ready to put some internet points on Halfpenny
@Sapetyvi said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande I am ready to put some internet points on Halfpenny
Bitcoin surely?
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Article in the Herald today indicating that the BIL camp is virtually split already into two training/playing groups and that extra players have been called for as training standins to make full teams.
Also some whinging about goal kicks as if the situations only ever occur in NZ.
The one about Dalys kick is a valid point. Gardner should have offered a change from the shot when he moved the mark back (to the correct place). He would have had to stop things and informed the Highlanders of the change but that's fine.
The other was the borderline miss from Farrell against the Crusaders. Some twits in the team calling for the TMO while others say they had a better view from the stands than the ARunder the post. What a load of crap. If the ball doesn't go between the posts clearly and obviously then it isn't successful. TMO would need two synchronised cameras to get the point of ball and post meeting and the AR is able to remove one axis from the equation by looking up the post.
Suffer in ya jocks!@Crucial said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
Article in the Herald today indicating that the BIL camp is virtually split already into two training/playing groups and that extra players have been called for as training standins to make full teams.
Also some whinging about goal kicks as if the situations only ever occur in NZ.
The one about Dalys kick is a valid point. Gardner should have offered a change from the shot when he moved the mark back (to the correct place). He would have had to stop things and informed the Highlanders of the change but that's fine.
The other was the borderline miss from Farrell against the Crusaders. Some twits in the team calling for the TMO while others say they had a better view from the stands than the ARunder the post. What a load of crap. If the ball doesn't go between the posts clearly and obviously then it isn't successful. TMO would need two synchronised cameras to get the point of ball and post meeting and the AR is able to remove one axis from the equation by looking up the post.
Suffer in ya jocks!This is the second article that Crucial mentioned.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11876817
Some top notch persecution complex going on there.
Gregor Paul's article about the split is conjecture but not the first time it's come up in the last couple of days.
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@Sapetyvi said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Catogrande I am ready to put some internet points on Halfpenny
Bitcoin surely?
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@Crucial said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
Article in the Herald today indicating that the BIL camp is virtually split already into two training/playing groups and that extra players have been called for as training standins to make full teams.
Also some whinging about goal kicks as if the situations only ever occur in NZ.
The one about Dalys kick is a valid point. Gardner should have offered a change from the shot when he moved the mark back (to the correct place). He would have had to stop things and informed the Highlanders of the change but that's fine.
The other was the borderline miss from Farrell against the Crusaders. Some twits in the team calling for the TMO while others say they had a better view from the stands than the ARunder the post. What a load of crap. If the ball doesn't go between the posts clearly and obviously then it isn't successful. TMO would need two synchronised cameras to get the point of ball and post meeting and the AR is able to remove one axis from the equation by looking up the post.
Suffer in ya jocks!This is the second article that Crucial mentioned.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11876817
Some top notch persecution complex going on there.
Gregor Paul's article about the split is conjecture but not the first time it's come up in the last couple of days.
@booboo haha, yeah you gotta laugh when people think a TMO would have a better view of a ball travelling between 2 uprights than 2 guys standing directly beneath the uprights...maybe they need to get wide-angle cameras installed on the top with lasers to measure the ball trajectory?
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@booboo haha, yeah you gotta laugh when people think a TMO would have a better view of a ball travelling between 2 uprights than 2 guys standing directly beneath the uprights...maybe they need to get wide-angle cameras installed on the top with lasers to measure the ball trajectory?
Oh come on @taniwharugby "If you're standing underneath the posts, you can't tell me if that's gone over or if it's just crept in or not. It's quite difficult to see if you're standing quite literally 'looking straight up'" ...
Weird
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@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Crucial No, I was referring to that time Wales wanted to sing Bread of Heaven (?) after the Haha so the All Blacks did it in their changing room instead.
Are you sure? I thought the issue was they wanted to change around the anthems and haka order? ie do the haka first then anthems.
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@Milk Yeah, now you say it I think you're right.
I think they actually did get a fat guy in the crowd to sing Bread of Heaven on a different occasion?
@SimonAdd_2 said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Milk Yeah, now you say it I think you're right.
I think they actually did get a fat guy in the crowd to sing Bread of Heaven on a different occasion?
Wynne "Go Compare" Evans walking on to the pitch waving the Welsh flag and singing 'Cwm Rhondda'
http://lyricsplayground.com/alpha/songs/c/cwmrhondda.shtml
Magic if you were there.
Could well have looked naff on the box.
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@pakman said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
@Crucial With Hoefty coaching scrums surely he'll be put right?
All props do shit, of that there is little dispute. I have just always noticed what Hames is doing if he looks to be dominant.
A favourite of his is dipping under the TH and driving up into their chest. It looks spectacular when in works but some THs work him out and time a downward drive just as he dips. Then he gets pinged for collapsing.@Crucial said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
All props do shit, of that there is little dispute. I have just always noticed what Hames is doing if he looks to be dominant.
A favourite of his is dipping under the TH and driving up into their chest. It looks spectacular when in works but some THs work him out and time a downward drive just as he dips. Then he gets pinged for collapsing.Hames is the second most penalised player in super rugby. He's easily the the highest quality player in the tight five though. If he does get on the wrong side of the referee the Maoris could be in trouble.
Particularly when you consider the other side of the scrum where they have they inconsistent May with backup from the not good enough Renata. -
Not much that is directly attributable in that article though is there? One direct although vague quote from Jenkins and then various bits in "quote" marks with no source quoted.
@Catogrande said in Māori All Blacks vs British and Irish Lions:
Not much that is directly attributable in that article though is there? One direct although vague quote from Jenkins and then various bits in "quote" marks with no source quoted.
Original story is from Mick Cleary in the Telegraph.
And it seems to me that tge wuotes are directly attributed to Jenkins
