Blues v BI Lions
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A comment I read said they have been surprised not to be awarded some penalties when a scrum has collapsed as the refs (so far) have been happy to let play continue if the ball is at the no.8s feet.
The Lions scrum won't be able to hold back against the Crusaders.
@Bovidae said in Blues v BI Lions:
A comment I read said they have been surprised not to be awarded some penalties when a scrum has collapsed as the refs (so far) have been happy to let play continue if the ball is at the no.8s feet.
The Lions scrum won't be able to hold back against the Crusaders.
I think that was one journalist. Stupid comment. As usual no effort made to keep up with how the game is managed by refs in the modern day. The days of being able to hold a clean ball at the back and wait for an inevitable scrum collapse have gone because is was a crap thing to do.
If you are driving then yes, you get to hold the ball in to gain advantage but if the scrum is stationary then no you can't. -
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
Didn't think Perofeta was too bad. Great pass for the first try. As West showed it isn't that easy to throw that sort of ball. He went pretty well for a young guy making his starting debut against the Lions with shitty service from Pulu who was fucking slow to clear the ball as usual..
I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self.
Nanai would have had a field day with that shitty lions defence. What did Collins actually do other than not fuck up?A error free game from Collins - that's surely the very first thing you want from your fullback?
Caught everything that was kicked to him, including an excellent mark under intense pressure during the downpour (which he converted into a free kick) and the contested take that led to West's try.
Kick returns were all well judged - including that very nicely judged one that found touch 40 metres upfield that you've dismissed as "lucky".
Nice save when your man Perofeta dropped the ball on his own line.
At least one nice running break returning the ball.
Was he spectacular? Not particularly - just very solid in everything he did. So my assessment - given how much criticism he's copped on here - was that he was "pretty good". I think that's accurate. Your remarks about him for this game seem pretty unfair.
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
Didn't think Perofeta was too bad. Great pass for the first try. As West showed it isn't that easy to throw that sort of ball. He went pretty well for a young guy making his starting debut against the Lions with shitty service from Pulu who was fucking slow to clear the ball as usual..
I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self.
Nanai would have had a field day with that shitty lions defence. What did Collins actually do other than not fuck up?A error free game from Collins - that's surely the very first thing you want from your fullback?
Caught everything that was kicked to him, including an excellent mark under intense pressure during the downpour (which he converted into a free kick) and the contested take that led to West's try.
Kick returns were all well judged - including that very nicely judged one that found touch 40 metres upfield that you've dismissed as "lucky".
Nice save when your man Perofeta dropped the ball on his own line.
At least one nice running break returning the ball.
Was he spectacular? Not particularly - just very solid in everything he did. So my assessment - given how much criticism he's copped on here - was that he was "pretty good". I think that's accurate. Your remarks about him for this game seem pretty unfair.
Everything you have described there is just the baseline of what you expect from a professional fullback though. Taking a few high balls is not something i would describe as "excellent" or "great" as others have suggested. You seem to agree. I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Meanwhile the guy who he played ahead of, and has for most of the year, has been ripping defences apart all year and doing freakish shit while doing everything good Collins has. Forgive me if i expect a bit more than "error free" from a fullback.
His mark was as much excellent as his kick was lucky so you can split the difference there.
Not sure what you mean by "your man" perofeta. Ive seen him play about 60 mins of rugby if that.
Funnily enough has already reached higher heights than Collins. He did that with a single pass. -
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
Didn't think Perofeta was too bad. Great pass for the first try. As West showed it isn't that easy to throw that sort of ball. He went pretty well for a young guy making his starting debut against the Lions with shitty service from Pulu who was fucking slow to clear the ball as usual..
I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self.
Nanai would have had a field day with that shitty lions defence. What did Collins actually do other than not fuck up?A error free game from Collins - that's surely the very first thing you want from your fullback?
Caught everything that was kicked to him, including an excellent mark under intense pressure during the downpour (which he converted into a free kick) and the contested take that led to West's try.
Kick returns were all well judged - including that very nicely judged one that found touch 40 metres upfield that you've dismissed as "lucky".
Nice save when your man Perofeta dropped the ball on his own line.
At least one nice running break returning the ball.
Was he spectacular? Not particularly - just very solid in everything he did. So my assessment - given how much criticism he's copped on here - was that he was "pretty good". I think that's accurate. Your remarks about him for this game seem pretty unfair.
Everything you have described there is just the baseline of what you expect from a professional fullback though. Taking a few high balls is not something i would describe as "excellent" or "great" as others have suggested. You seem to agree. I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Meanwhile the guy who he played ahead of, and has for most of the year, has been ripping defences apart all year and doing freakish shit while doing everything good Collins has. Forgive me if i expect a bit more than "error free" from a fullback.
His mark was as much excellent as his kick was lucky so you can split the difference there.
Not sure what you mean by "your man" perofeta. Ive seen him play about 60 mins of rugby if that.
Funnily enough has already reached higher heights than Collins. He did that with a single pass.@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Well you did actually...
"I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self."
The guy played well, but you seem to have taken exception to people pointing it out...in multiple posts.
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@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Well you did actually...
"I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self."
The guy played well, but you seem to have taken exception to people pointing it out...in multiple posts.
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Well you did actually...
"I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self."
The guy played well, but you seem to have taken exception to people pointing it out...in multiple posts.
Ok i guess i did if his usual self equals shit.
I maintain he was slow, unable to hit a gap or beat a man.
I just call bullshit that taking a few high balls means he was great or played particularly well.
It was a stock standard journeyman performance. -
@MiketheSnow said in Blues v BI Lions:
Thoroughly deserved from the Blues. Stuck to the task and clinically and brutally exploited the Lions lack of pace and spatial awareness.
With a bit more precision and YCs being shown it could easily have been 5 tries to 1.
5 mins either side of halftime killed the Lions.
Luatua, Williams and Ioane played themselves into contention.
As mentioned earlier Owens, Tipuric, Webb, Halfpenny in the box seats for test match 23.
Big competition for prop.
Itoje will be in test 23, Lawes won't.
Stander had a good match but not good enough to oust Faletau.
Biggar shithouse. Sexton not much better. Gatland's decision to select Farrell as an outside half borne out.
Centres never got a chance and you still have to fancy Te'o, Joseph and Davies to be vying for the test spots
Daley is class
Nowell played himself out of contention
Liam Williams will have to do something remarkable to even get a look inI thought Webb was pretty terrible myself. Kicked so much aimless ball away. If you think Collins, Ioane and Duffie can run the ball back, there are better back 3s available to NZ.
@Billy-Tell said in Blues v BI Lions:
@MiketheSnow said in Blues v BI Lions:
Thoroughly deserved from the Blues. Stuck to the task and clinically and brutally exploited the Lions lack of pace and spatial awareness.
With a bit more precision and YCs being shown it could easily have been 5 tries to 1.
5 mins either side of halftime killed the Lions.
Luatua, Williams and Ioane played themselves into contention.
As mentioned earlier Owens, Tipuric, Webb, Halfpenny in the box seats for test match 23.
Big competition for prop.
Itoje will be in test 23, Lawes won't.
Stander had a good match but not good enough to oust Faletau.
Biggar shithouse. Sexton not much better. Gatland's decision to select Farrell as an outside half borne out.
Centres never got a chance and you still have to fancy Te'o, Joseph and Davies to be vying for the test spots
Daley is class
Nowell played himself out of contention
Liam Williams will have to do something remarkable to even get a look inI thought Webb was pretty terrible myself. Kicked so much aimless ball away. If you think Collins, Ioane and Duffie can run the ball back, there are better back 3s available to NZ.
True. He can kick better than that, and will.
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Yet again Best causes me to doubt the theory of nominative determinism. Now, if he was called Choker...
@Disgusted-of-TW said in Blues v BI Lions:
Yet again Best causes me to doubt the theory of nominative determinism. Now, if he was called Choker...
Second Best
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I was at the game and 2 things struck me about the Blues:
(1) Pulu is terrible. His slow, ponderous passing really stops the Blues backline from getting momentum. I'd never seen him live, so I didn't realise quite how bad he is.
(2) SBW was excellent. It's not just the big plays he made, but what really impressed me was how active he was. He worked really hard to get back to his feet and into position after every involvement. He went hard right from the word go to the end. That's one of the qualities I really want to see in an All Black centre. Not a guy who does a few good things in a game then slacks off for long periods.
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@antipodean said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Mokey https://twitter.com/jcorrigangolf/status/872503592351137792
Look at his handle. He's a golfer. Doesn't get it.
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@Tim said in Blues v BI Lions:
Two shit attempts at tackles from Nowell and Daly.
Nowell should have been wearing a lifejacket because he was all at sea all match.
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I was at the game and 2 things struck me about the Blues:
(1) Pulu is terrible. His slow, ponderous passing really stops the Blues backline from getting momentum. I'd never seen him live, so I didn't realise quite how bad he is.
(2) SBW was excellent. It's not just the big plays he made, but what really impressed me was how active he was. He worked really hard to get back to his feet and into position after every involvement. He went hard right from the word go to the end. That's one of the qualities I really want to see in an All Black centre. Not a guy who does a few good things in a game then slacks off for long periods.
@Damo said in Blues v BI Lions:
I was at the game and 2 things struck me about the Blues:
(1) Pulu is terrible. His slow, ponderous passing really stops the Blues backline from getting momentum. I'd never seen him live, so I didn't realise quite how bad he is.
Pulu has been poor all year in my view.
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On my way to work I have calmed down a bit on the DMac thing.
I assume that the ABs see him as a 10 option only and he will get a chance to stake that claim next year
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@Tim said in Blues v BI Lions:
Two shit attempts at tackles from Nowell and Daly.
Nowell should have been wearing a lifejacket because he was all at sea all match.
@MiketheSnow said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Tim said in Blues v BI Lions:
Two shit attempts at tackles from Nowell and Daly.
Nowell should have been wearing a lifejacket because he was all at sea all match.
That tatooed abomination belongs in one of those Geordie Shore type shows not the Lions.
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@Damo said in Blues v BI Lions:
I was at the game and 2 things struck me about the Blues:
(1) Pulu is terrible. His slow, ponderous passing really stops the Blues backline from getting momentum. I'd never seen him live, so I didn't realise quite how bad he is.
Pulu has been poor all year in my view.
@ACT-Crusader said in Blues v BI Lions:
@Damo said in Blues v BI Lions:
I was at the game and 2 things struck me about the Blues:
(1) Pulu is terrible. His slow, ponderous passing really stops the Blues backline from getting momentum. I'd never seen him live, so I didn't realise quite how bad he is.
Pulu has been poor all year in my view.
And yet he has been the best hlafback we've had in a while
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Just rewatching the game, a pommy mate of mine was talking up Itoje before the tour. Is Itoje known for being a bit of an excitable dickhead or is he just pumped to be part of this tour?
@jegga said in Blues v BI Lions:
Just rewatching the game, a pommy mate of mine was talking up Itoje before the tour. Is Itoje known for being a bit of an excitable dickhead or is he just pumped to be part of this tour?
Yeah, he's known for the clapping and whooping.
He is a very good player with heaps of potential given his age (21-22) but has basically had it all his own way so far in his career. Under-20 World Cup winner, part of dominant Saracens and England teams in Europe. This tour is likely to be the making or breaking of him, based on how he responds to adversity.
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@Chris-B. said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui said in Blues v BI Lions:
Didn't think Perofeta was too bad. Great pass for the first try. As West showed it isn't that easy to throw that sort of ball. He went pretty well for a young guy making his starting debut against the Lions with shitty service from Pulu who was fucking slow to clear the ball as usual..
I must have missed the good stuff Collins did. He looked his usual slow, unable to beat a tackle or take a gap self.
Nanai would have had a field day with that shitty lions defence. What did Collins actually do other than not fuck up?A error free game from Collins - that's surely the very first thing you want from your fullback?
Caught everything that was kicked to him, including an excellent mark under intense pressure during the downpour (which he converted into a free kick) and the contested take that led to West's try.
Kick returns were all well judged - including that very nicely judged one that found touch 40 metres upfield that you've dismissed as "lucky".
Nice save when your man Perofeta dropped the ball on his own line.
At least one nice running break returning the ball.
Was he spectacular? Not particularly - just very solid in everything he did. So my assessment - given how much criticism he's copped on here - was that he was "pretty good". I think that's accurate. Your remarks about him for this game seem pretty unfair.
Everything you have described there is just the baseline of what you expect from a professional fullback though. Taking a few high balls is not something i would describe as "excellent" or "great" as others have suggested. You seem to agree. I haven't suggested he was shit in THIS game. Just not "great"
Meanwhile the guy who he played ahead of, and has for most of the year, has been ripping defences apart all year and doing freakish shit while doing everything good Collins has. Forgive me if i expect a bit more than "error free" from a fullback.
His mark was as much excellent as his kick was lucky so you can split the difference there.
Not sure what you mean by "your man" perofeta. Ive seen him play about 60 mins of rugby if that.
Funnily enough has already reached higher heights than Collins. He did that with a single pass.@pukunui was listening to the radio commentators Nigel Yalden and former All Black Ant Strahan with the wrap up after the Blues v Lions game.
SBW and Luatua were given the most praise for their performances,followed by Micheal Collins,in and around doing the simple basics well against an international side on a night where small margins either win or lose a game.The impressive catch leading up to the Luatua offload was huge,it finally gave the Blues possession they required to have one good crack,I also thought his kick return and option taking was spot on.
These little moments in what was a one off performance are crucial,you only have to think back to Lima Sopaga steering a return kick directly over the touchline against the saders last Saturday,massive turning point,Whitelock took control,and that was that.,so based on what I saw and speaking to a couple former all blacks that I run into on my travels,his decion making was spot on
I asked about Melani Nanai,they both said he was an exceptional talent,especially the ability to beat a player with footwork and pace,but that's also his weakness,from the back first instinct is to run at the defence moving up,reason why,no kicking game,and does not look to where his support is.can think of the game against the chiefs in Hamilton last year,The Blues lead for a good part of that match,and then Cruden worked him out,they sent long kicks down into the red zone,simply because he had no kicking game..
To be honest,I personally don't think it was a great blues performance,you could argue they played better code against some the NZ super sides and still lost,fortunately there were several players that stood up,and they took their chances when they arose.
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@pukunui was listening to the radio commentators Nigel Yalden and former All Black Ant Strahan with the wrap up after the Blues v Lions game.
SBW and Luatua were given the most praise for their performances,followed by Micheal Collins,in and around doing the simple basics well against an international side on a night where small margins either win or lose a game.The impressive catch leading up to the Luatua offload was huge,it finally gave the Blues possession they required to have one good crack,I also thought his kick return and option taking was spot on.
These little moments in what was a one off performance are crucial,you only have to think back to Lima Sopaga steering a return kick directly over the touchline against the saders last Saturday,massive turning point,Whitelock took control,and that was that.,so based on what I saw and speaking to a couple former all blacks that I run into on my travels,his decion making was spot on
I asked about Melani Nanai,they both said he was an exceptional talent,especially the ability to beat a player with footwork and pace,but that's also his weakness,from the back first instinct is to run at the defence moving up,reason why,no kicking game,and does not look to where his support is.can think of the game against the chiefs in Hamilton last year,The Blues lead for a good part of that match,and then Cruden worked him out,they sent long kicks down into the red zone,simply because he had no kicking game..
To be honest,I personally don't think it was a great blues performance,you could argue they played better code against some the NZ super sides and still lost,fortunately there were several players that stood up,and they took their chances when they arose.
@Steven-Harris said in Blues v BI Lions:
@pukunui
I asked about Melani Nanai,they both said he was an exceptional talent,especially the ability to beat a player with footwork and pace,but that's also his weakness,from the back first instinct is to run at the defence moving up,reason why,no kicking game,and does not look to where his support is.can think of the game against the chiefs in Hamilton last year,The Blues lead for a good part of that match,and then Cruden worked him out,they sent long kicks down into the red zone,simply because he had no kicking game..Interesting insights, thanks for that.
Some comments though. Firstly, Nanai was called into that Chiefs game late (as starting fullback Visinia pulled out before kickoff with an injury). It's a little harsh to cherry pick that game, especially when Nanai scored an individual 50 metre try that helped put the Blues in the lead in the first place.
Secondly, if Collins played to the level he played against the Lions in the NZ derbies, the Blues would have won one or two of those derbies and could very well have snuck into the playoffs. He didn't. His error rate in the derbies was very high, dropping high balls, dropping the ball, kicks out on the full etc. This combined with next to zero attacking spark puts the Blues on the backfoot. Nanai is clearly a much stronger attacker with the ability to create something out of nothing but also a much stronger tackler (in terms of speed to cover ground and his actual tackling).
I think an argument can be made the slower pace that the Lions played at suited Collins. He probably suits the northern hemisphere style more. The fast paced razzle dazzle nz derbies expose his weaknesses.
Hopefully Nanai keeps working away on his areas of improvement.
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@pukunui was listening to the radio commentators Nigel Yalden and former All Black Ant Strahan with the wrap up after the Blues v Lions game.
SBW and Luatua were given the most praise for their performances,followed by Micheal Collins,in and around doing the simple basics well against an international side on a night where small margins either win or lose a game.The impressive catch leading up to the Luatua offload was huge,it finally gave the Blues possession they required to have one good crack,I also thought his kick return and option taking was spot on.
These little moments in what was a one off performance are crucial,you only have to think back to Lima Sopaga steering a return kick directly over the touchline against the saders last Saturday,massive turning point,Whitelock took control,and that was that.,so based on what I saw and speaking to a couple former all blacks that I run into on my travels,his decion making was spot on
I asked about Melani Nanai,they both said he was an exceptional talent,especially the ability to beat a player with footwork and pace,but that's also his weakness,from the back first instinct is to run at the defence moving up,reason why,no kicking game,and does not look to where his support is.can think of the game against the chiefs in Hamilton last year,The Blues lead for a good part of that match,and then Cruden worked him out,they sent long kicks down into the red zone,simply because he had no kicking game..
To be honest,I personally don't think it was a great blues performance,you could argue they played better code against some the NZ super sides and still lost,fortunately there were several players that stood up,and they took their chances when they arose.
@Steven-Harris Was that you on the radio talking about the Maori yesterday, Steven?
