All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1
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I still think the NH are really missing the things and areas that make the ABs so good. They went into this game pretty much ignoring the ABs mid year form and considering a fatigued EOYT. Games 2,3,4 of the year are generally the ABs at their best and unlike what Gatland said the step up from Super rugby is wide. I also think if the pundits are lauding the Lions for their ball in hand game they will play right into the ABs hands, its the kind of game the ABs want the lions to play and there is no ways that they will have the players to back it up over 160 minutes. In my opinion they missed the try scoring chances simply because they do not have the skills to execute consistently under pressure. I cannot imagine the Lions finishing any of the AB try scoring chances but I can imagine the ABs converting all of the Lions chances.
I think the English have suffered a similar fate in recent years, they want to play a more expansive game, get themselves into the positions but are unable to finish because the style is not natural, thier traditional way is to play the percentages, not roll the dice.
I coach my sons U12 team and only this year have we taught them exit strategies, 6 games in we have used it twice, rarely kick for touch, and are currently undefeated. First instinct is to run, and in doing so you are always looking for space, and developing it at this age means when you have a better rugby brain you can weigh the odds better but instincts still give you the natural edge.
Most other teams are the same, there are the odd team that tries to play more conservatively, but if they kick it to us, we run it back.
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@Crucial reading on a bit I see your reference to Sexton was an on field incident. I don't recall it. What did he say?
@booboo said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
@Crucial reading on a bit I see your reference to Sexton was an on field incident. I don't recall it. What did he say?
First Peyper told him to stop waving his arms at him then when there was a defensive knock on toward the end of the game Sexton got in his face and demanded a penalty. Thats when you could hear Peyper telling him he isn't the ref. From other reports he was heard telling Peyper 'you give them everything and us nothing'
Someone needs to tell Sexton this isn't soccer. -
I think the English have suffered a similar fate in recent years, they want to play a more expansive game, get themselves into the positions but are unable to finish because the style is not natural, thier traditional way is to play the percentages, not roll the dice.
I coach my sons U12 team and only this year have we taught them exit strategies, 6 games in we have used it twice, rarely kick for touch, and are currently undefeated. First instinct is to run, and in doing so you are always looking for space, and developing it at this age means when you have a better rugby brain you can weigh the odds better but instincts still give you the natural edge.
Most other teams are the same, there are the odd team that tries to play more conservatively, but if they kick it to us, we run it back.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
I think the English have suffered a similar fate in recent years, they want to play a more expansive game, get themselves into the positions but are unable to finish because the style is not natural, thier traditional way is to play the percentages, not roll the dice.
I coach my sons U12 team and only this year have we taught them exit strategies, 6 games in we have used it twice, rarely kick for touch, and are currently undefeated. First instinct is to run, and in doing so you are always looking for space, and developing it at this age means when you have a better rugby brain you can weigh the odds better but instincts still give you the natural edge.
Most other teams are the same, there are the odd team that tries to play more conservatively, but if they kick it to us, we run it back.
There is a hesitation to decide whether a risk is worth taking whereas our players take the risk but prepare themselves to cover it going tits up. That helps us shift from D to A and back again
The NH teams will never have those instincts unless they play that way from a young age. Erring on risk aversion won't get you there.
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@Crucial most of the whinging is handily contained in this thread, the poster called Hong Kong is actually a ref and points out the twat posting the last gif is actually showing an example of good reffing. He might as well piss in the wind of course .
@jegga said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
@Crucial most of the whinging is handily contained in this thread, the poster called Hong Kong is actually a ref and points out the twat posting the last gif is actually showing an example of good reffing. He might as well piss in the wind of course .
Holy shit, are adults not allowed to post there?
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
I think the English have suffered a similar fate in recent years, they want to play a more expansive game, get themselves into the positions but are unable to finish because the style is not natural, thier traditional way is to play the percentages, not roll the dice.
I coach my sons U12 team and only this year have we taught them exit strategies, 6 games in we have used it twice, rarely kick for touch, and are currently undefeated. First instinct is to run, and in doing so you are always looking for space, and developing it at this age means when you have a better rugby brain you can weigh the odds better but instincts still give you the natural edge.
Most other teams are the same, there are the odd team that tries to play more conservatively, but if they kick it to us, we run it back.
There is a hesitation to decide whether a risk is worth taking whereas our players take the risk but prepare themselves to cover it going tits up. That helps us shift from D to A and back again
The NH teams will never have those instincts unless they play that way from a young age. Erring on risk aversion won't get you there.
@Crucial Fear causes hesitation, hesitation will cause your worst fears to come true
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@booboo said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
@Crucial reading on a bit I see your reference to Sexton was an on field incident. I don't recall it. What did he say?
First Peyper told him to stop waving his arms at him then when there was a defensive knock on toward the end of the game Sexton got in his face and demanded a penalty. Thats when you could hear Peyper telling him he isn't the ref. From other reports he was heard telling Peyper 'you give them everything and us nothing'
Someone needs to tell Sexton this isn't soccer.@Crucial said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
First Peyper told him to stop waving his arms at him then when there was a defensive knock on toward the end of the game Sexton got in his face and demanded a penalty. Thats when you could hear Peyper telling him he isn't the ref. From other reports he was heard telling Peyper 'you give them everything and us nothing'
Someone needs to tell Sexton this isn't soccer.And just to complete the story, it was one of the ARs who told Peyper that Red no.22 was waving his arms in the air and mouthing off so he needed to speak to him.
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The best 10 performance ive seen from someone in the Lions squad this month is by far and away Finn Russell against the Aussies. I know the Lions like to play off 9 (and the ABs did this a lot on the weekend too) but the Lions need to find a way to generate points to win these tests and Russell's playmaking ability at 10 would only help. Farrell isn't an out and out 10 and Sexton has been hot and cold.
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The best 10 performance ive seen from someone in the Lions squad this month is by far and away Finn Russell against the Aussies. I know the Lions like to play off 9 (and the ABs did this a lot on the weekend too) but the Lions need to find a way to generate points to win these tests and Russell's playmaking ability at 10 would only help. Farrell isn't an out and out 10 and Sexton has been hot and cold.
@KiwiMurph Farrell is an out an out 10. He plays there week in and week out for his club. He's played there a lot for England at all levels as well. It's just that Percentage Eddie feels that we lack a ball playing 12 and we have Ford, who is a more expansive 10 than Farrell.
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@KiwiMurph Farrell is an out an out 10. He plays there week in and week out for his club. He's played there a lot for England at all levels as well. It's just that Percentage Eddie feels that we lack a ball playing 12 and we have Ford, who is a more expansive 10 than Farrell.
@Catogrande Fair enough. I perhaps should have re-worded it. My point is that he is somewhat limited in his game at 10 from an attacking point of view.
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Shag just let rip a bit on devlins show in reply to gatlands negative comments
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Asking for more protection for the most protected species on the field really is taking the piss.
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Asking for more protection for the most protected species on the field really is taking the piss.
@No-Quarter tell him to stop raking the ball out with his hands and maybe he will get hit less. cop on refs FFS
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"We are not intentionally trying to hurt anyone," Hansen told host Martin Devlin.
"They are predictable comments from Gatland...I guess he might be a bit desperate. It never will be (the way we play) as long as I'm involved with the All Blacks.
"It is really, really disappointing. We're trying to charge the kick down and or tackle him.
"Just because he is one of their key players, he doesn't have the right to go around the park without being charged down or tackled."
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11882032
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@No-Quarter tell him to stop raking the ball out with his hands and maybe he will get hit less. cop on refs FFS
@mariner4life or sitting with his hands on it for what must seem an age on the field.
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The best 10 performance ive seen from someone in the Lions squad this month is by far and away Finn Russell against the Aussies. I know the Lions like to play off 9 (and the ABs did this a lot on the weekend too) but the Lions need to find a way to generate points to win these tests and Russell's playmaking ability at 10 would only help. Farrell isn't an out and out 10 and Sexton has been hot and cold.
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
The best 10 performance ive seen from someone in the Lions squad this month is by far and away Finn Russell against the Aussies. I know the Lions like to play off 9 (and the ABs did this a lot on the weekend too) but the Lions need to find a way to generate points to win these tests and Russell's playmaking ability at 10 would only help. Farrell isn't an out and out 10 and Sexton has been hot and cold.
It's like Sexton now expects to beat us all the time now after the test in Chicago
Just a complete twat. -
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
The best 10 performance ive seen from someone in the Lions squad this month is by far and away Finn Russell against the Aussies. I know the Lions like to play off 9 (and the ABs did this a lot on the weekend too) but the Lions need to find a way to generate points to win these tests and Russell's playmaking ability at 10 would only help. Farrell isn't an out and out 10 and Sexton has been hot and cold.
It's like Sexton now expects to beat us all the time now after the test in Chicago
Just a complete twat.@Virgil said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
@KiwiMurph said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
The best 10 performance ive seen from someone in the Lions squad this month is by far and away Finn Russell against the Aussies. I know the Lions like to play off 9 (and the ABs did this a lot on the weekend too) but the Lions need to find a way to generate points to win these tests and Russell's playmaking ability at 10 would only help. Farrell isn't an out and out 10 and Sexton has been hot and cold.
It's like Sexton now expects to beat us all the time now after the test in Chicago
Just a complete twat.Oh get over yourself.
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The Sunday Times was interesting reading this morning. Most of the comment was pretty accurate (even from the Walrus). Good to see though that they still see the failings only as momentary lapses rather than a product of the way we play our domestic rugby e.g. NZ players wold be awake to quick taps and going wide when in front of the posts because we are willing to take risks to gain rewards. That split second where NH players have to think about it because failure would mean a pissed off club owner makes a big difference.
Anyway, it took about 4 reasonable articles before Jones finally managed a stupid dig. This one at Peyper, saying he was a 'walking, whistling disaster area yesterday'.
I have't watched the game closely again but fail to recall how this was the case. I didn't see any blatent 'hemisphere interpretation' things that undermined the Lions any errors he made were spread. I couldn't work out why Sexton was having such a big cry and make direct accusations of bias (for which he should get sanctioned IMO).
Can anyone help me out? I'm no big fan of Peyper but can't see how his performance yesterday was worthy of that comment.
Edit: credit where it is due to a good article by Stuart Barnes. If anyone has cut and paste abilities for the Times others here may wish to read it
@Crucial said in All Blacks vs. B&I Lions test #1:
Edit: credit where it is due to a good article by Stuart Barnes. If anyone has cut and paste abilities for the Times others here may wish to read it
Barnes's column:
"The Lions are on the horns of a dilemma. If they play with as much attacking fluency as they did for much of yesterday’s match they open the way for New Zealand to cut them to pieces. If they strip back their game and attempt to take all tempo out of the match they will be criticised on all sides, unless they win. And the chances of that are pretty remote. Remote but not out of the question.For all the brave talk in defeat, for all the majesty of what was one of the great Test match tries, the Lions are doomed if they see that score as the template for how to win in Wellington. That try was exceptional. British and Irish rugby is not. It may well be that last night was as good as it gets in attack.
There is constant talk of chances being created, not finished. It echoes through the press conferences of this tour. The failure is so repetitive because it takes a higher quality player to turn most chances into tries. Lions make breaks but, most of the time, the support isn’t close enough, the final pass isn’t good enough.
When the Lions get turned over my eyes immediately scan the New Zealanders ready to counterattack. It makes a match into a magnificent spectacle as much of yesterday’s game was. It is also a style of rugby with only one possible outcome.
The Lions say they can fix the fault lines from Auckland. The tries not being finished is not easy to fix. Otherwise the squad would have fixed them three weeks ago. Another awful problem that keeps popping up is the lack of discipline and the number of errors. “Discipline wasn’t where it was at,” said Peter O’Mahony. “Discipline and errors cost us,” said Jonathan Davies. The Lions talk about these issues. They do not resolve them. When they play at a pace to which they are accustomed, the penalty count drops to acceptably low levels. However, when the game spins out of control, as it did against the Blues, Highlanders and again yesterday, the penalty count rises into the teens. They haven’t worked out (or maybe acknowledged) that the quicker the tempo of the game, the more mistakes — penalties and errors alike — are made. Things are happening at a level outside their comfort zone. This is when the fixable (yet still unfixed) penalties and errors are made.
The breakdown has been an area of strength, especially against the Crusaders and Maori, where the Lions pack dictated the pace of the game. Not last night, not against the All Blacks. Suddenly the players were puffing, oxygen levels low as they struggled to think straight at the point of contact. New Zealanders, playing at a more familiar lick, bossed the breakdown.
If you lose the breakdown against the All Blacks you lose the match. So it transpired. The stark reality is that no matter how much the Lions finishing, discipline, error count and breakdown improves, only a quantum leap will see them beat a home team happy with a fast game. New Zealand too will improve.
The more committed the attacking intent, the greater the opportunities available for each side. There was something noble about the Lions performance, something truly admirable, but a winning formula it was not. I can envisage a scenario where the Lions play even faster and better and score, say, four tries instead of two. If that happens the All Blacks will probably double their own tally and score six. 60-30 to New Zealand.
The greater the ambition the more the outcome is settled by players and not strategy. Look through the two squads and it is hard not to notice the marked superiority of the Kiwis. Man for man they are more skilled; which is why they tend to take their chances and we Europeans do not. The inability not to link missed opportunities with skill deficits is truly mind-boggling but we are intent on pretending New Zealand are not that much better than the rest of us when the results scream otherwise, year after year.
Play the same game and go down in flames. Play a game with more box kicking, as we saw in the first 30 minutes in Auckland, more kick, more chase — all done well of course — and they might box the Blacks in, in the right parts of the field. Close enough to the line to turn last night’s many excellent line breaks into tries.
An ugly plan will win no friends outside the UK and Ireland. Maybe a few within would prefer their rugby as wondrous as the one try to which we were treated at Eden Park. Such a game will lead to penalties and errors, which ends in defeat. It has happened three times already this tour. Bet your last Kiwi dollar that New Zealand will be praising the Lions attacking game and luring them towards the rocks."
