All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.
A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.
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@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.
A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.
A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.
Quit the whingeing lads, we're not Irish. Naholo concussion doesn't automatically equal foul play. Reckon there is zero zilch nada chance O'Brien will be cited for that.
Ref had some poor calls either way. Just like in every match ever played.
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@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.
A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.
@Crucial But Lions sides don't commit penalty offenses, the ref is only there to make sure the AB's don't bring the game into disrupt
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.
A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.
Quit the whingeing lads, we're not Irish. Naholo concussion doesn't automatically equal foul play. Reckon there is zero zilch nada chance O'Brien will be cited for that.
Ref had some poor calls either way. Just like in every match ever played.
@Billy-Tell said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.
A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.
Quit the whingeing lads, we're not Irish. Naholo concussion doesn't automatically equal foul play. Reckon there is zero zilch nada chance O'Brien will be cited for that.
Ref had some poor calls either way. Just like in every match ever played.
Who's whingeing? I've stated clearly in a few posts that I think it was accidental.
Just also pointing out how inconsistent the application of the head contact directive is in different situations. The proof is in the pudding in that Naholo failed a HIA
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I'll be surprised if Vunipola doesn't get cited. Surely Ayoub will try and defend himself because he was clearly being ignored by Garces. He will have to put that in his post match report.
Garces was being a real arrogant fuck at times. Too hot headed to ref at this level.@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'll be surprised if Vunipola doesn't get cited. Surely Ayoub will try and defend himself because he was clearly being ignored by Garces. He will have to put that in his post match report.
Garces was being a real arrogant fuck at times. Too hot headed to ref at this level.I've watched that Vunipola YC several times and that was clearly a deliberate act - a shoulder to the head (of Beaudy) in the cleanout. In the interests of fairness If SBW's was a RC then the Vunipola card should also have been the same colour.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'll be surprised if Vunipola doesn't get cited. Surely Ayoub will try and defend himself because he was clearly being ignored by Garces. He will have to put that in his post match report.
Garces was being a real arrogant fuck at times. Too hot headed to ref at this level.I've watched that Vunipola YC several times and that was clearly a deliberate act - a shoulder to the head (of Beaudy) in the cleanout. In the interests of fairness If SBW's was a RC then the Vunipola card should also have been the same colour.
@Crash Don't hold your breath on a citing it isn't going to happen. Expect SBW to 2 weeks. Mid field selection is going to be an interesting one, do you stay with ALB and Laumape or go for a 4th different combo.
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@Crash Don't hold your breath on a citing it isn't going to happen. Expect SBW to 2 weeks. Mid field selection is going to be an interesting one, do you stay with ALB and Laumape or go for a 4th different combo.
@Wreck-Diver For midfield I think Crotty will come back into the reckoning and will start with ALB.
Laumape to the bench.
Interesting that they chose to sacrifice Kaino instead of sticking with a depleted and re-jigged midfield. -
Is it a prerequisite that all Lions players throw their arms in the air when they believe they should have a penalty. Murray Farrell O'Brien Itoji are experts at it.
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Is it a prerequisite that all Lions players throw their arms in the air when they believe they should have a penalty. Murray Farrell O'Brien Itoji are experts at it.
@Wreck-Diver said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Is it a prerequisite that all Lions players throw their arms in the air when they believe they should have a penalty. Murray Farrell O'Brien Itoji are experts at it.
Kind of like the way TJP always has something to say whenever NZ let in a try I suppose.
For next week, I can't see any changes to the forwards. The only possible change is reverting to the 2 loose forwards option on the bench with Fafita. Backs will take some thought though.
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Have to ask, curious penalty against the AB's for "offside" when Smith was box kicking - since when have refs seen that as a penalty? But more importantly - why was there only one penalty for that in a match where it happened every time there was a box kick?
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Have to ask, curious penalty against the AB's for "offside" when Smith was box kicking - since when have refs seen that as a penalty? But more importantly - why was there only one penalty for that in a match where it happened every time there was a box kick?
Can't answer question re consistency ...
... but assume it was for an AB forward not bound in the ruck being in front of the last foot.
... see para one.
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@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Have to ask, curious penalty against the AB's for "offside" when Smith was box kicking - since when have refs seen that as a penalty? But more importantly - why was there only one penalty for that in a match where it happened every time there was a box kick?
Can't answer question re consistency ...
... but assume it was for an AB forward not bound in the ruck being in front of the last foot.
... see para one.
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I have had a couple of cracks and no bites at this so last go. The only player concussed was Naholo by a short arm forearm to the head by O'Brien. If was in Australia that replay would have been on high rotation until the game was stopped. No penalty we were up 18-9 and they scored in th next phase of play....just saying that for consistency in the game, this one was missed.
@kev said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I have had a couple of cracks and no bites at this so last go. The only player concussed was Naholo by a short arm forearm to the head by O'Brien. If was in Australia that replay would have been on high rotation until the game was stopped. No penalty we were up 18-9 and they scored in th next phase of play....just saying that for consistency in the game, this one was missed.
... umm ...
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Those blaming Barrett need to take a few breaths.
He missed a few, sure.
He still kicked 7 penalties and all our points. Carter had plenty of kicking nights like his.
@MadGav said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
Those blaming Barrett need to take a few breaths.
He missed a few, sure.
He still kicked 7 penalties and all our points. Carter had plenty of kicking nights like his.
"Blaming" would be harsh. Noting that he missed a couple of reasonably easy kicks as contributory to the result would be fair.
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@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crash said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I doubt some of the anger will have washed away overnight but I'm going to make the comment anyway.
When the head contact directives came in we all said it was only going to be a matter of time before a test was ruined because of them.
Now SBW should certainly have been more careful knowing the directives and should have realised the dangerous situation he was getting into. He must certainly take the blame.
However, before the directives that would have been a YC. Clumsy accidental contact to the head. A lot of posters are carrying on as if that was a deliberate shoulder charge. It was a tackle assist executed dangerously.
Yep completely agree - tackle assist, poor execution careless and a YC - new protocols introduced have changed our game completely and not always for the better. Amazingly enough, Watson passed his HIA, but Naholo failed his.
I don't even know who hit Naholo but his was also a poorly executed, lack of due care, tackle assist that actually caused a head injury yet nothing? I think Ayoub had given up by then, he knew Garces wasn't listening to him.
A poor showing by the ref team that lost it's way. Not only with the MV and Naholo incidents but the ARs completely lost sight of the offside lines in the last 10 minutes as well, it was a fucken mess.
Quit the whingeing lads, we're not Irish. Naholo concussion doesn't automatically equal foul play. Reckon there is zero zilch nada chance O'Brien will be cited for that.
Ref had some poor calls either way. Just like in every match ever played.
@Billy-Tell not whinging but well worth a discussion I would have thought. Contact to head with with swinging forearm that results in a concussion. Similar situation to SBW in that the Lions player inside had made the tackle and O'Brien came in late and to the side on a dropping player.
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I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?
So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?
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@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?
So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?
@Crucial said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Bones said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
I'm speechless anyone could think SBW was clumsy and that was accidental. You guys watching on a 2 inch screen in old school SD?
So you think he deliberately targeted the head with his shoulder?
I can't see any other explanation. Best I can see if being optimistic is that he saw Naholo making the tackle and was trying to hit Wise with his shoulder to help with the drive. But then that doesn't explain him looking directly at where he was going to plant his shoulder, bracing his shoulder perfectly for a shoulder charge and well and truly following through. It's not like Watson dropped a massive height or anything and even if he did it's hardly accidental.
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@Billy-Tell not whinging but well worth a discussion I would have thought. Contact to head with with swinging forearm that results in a concussion. Similar situation to SBW in that the Lions player inside had made the tackle and O'Brien came in late and to the side on a dropping player.
@kev said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Billy-Tell not whinging but well worth a discussion I would have thought. Contact to head with with swinging forearm that results in a concussion. Similar situation to SBW in that the Lions player inside had made the tackle and O'Brien came in late and to the side on a dropping player.
Yeah I dunno. No point crying over split milk I'd rather concentrate on next week. The midfield concerns me a bit.
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@Stargazer Can't believe the call on Retallick. He did what every forward does at a ruck before a box kick which was to be a blocker for the halfback. What a shocking call.
@akan004 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #2:
@Stargazer Can't believe the call on Retallick. He did what every forward does at a ruck before a box kick which was to be a blocker for the halfback. What a shocking call.
Looking at the highlights @Stargazer posted was he even offside?
Serious question: is the offside line formed by the last part of the body lying in the tuckle (cross between ruck and tackle) or the foot pf the last person on their feet?
If tge former he was offside but tgst is not Garces reffed tge rest of the night.
Felt we should have got the penalty the Lions got just before halftime for holding on. His timing on those tackle penalties varied massively. Take for example hid fist pen v. A Smith for not rolling away. Seemed to be one movement for me.
And playing on from that penalty on the break the great cross field kick Murray should probably have been a penalty try for Taylor being offside.
