All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@pakman Dagg or Smith go well at 14...
So did Jane who was mostly a FB previously for the Canes
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@pakman Dagg or Smith go well at 14...
So did Jane who was mostly a FB previously for the Canes
Kahui
-
@jegga said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Yeah , nah
Graham is fluffing Warren ready for the fall
-
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@pakman Dagg or Smith go well at 14...
So did Jane who was mostly a FB previously for the Canes
Kahui
@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@pakman Dagg or Smith go well at 14...
So did Jane who was mostly a FB previously for the Canes
Kahui
FB and wing are similar positions. Kahui moved from 13 out which is almost as impressive as moving from the back three to centre
-
@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@kiwiinmelb said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@pakman Dagg or Smith go well at 14...
So did Jane who was mostly a FB previously for the Canes
Kahui
FB and wing are similar positions. Kahui moved from 13 out which is almost as impressive as moving from the back three to centre
-
@akan004
Well, I'm not one to moan about unfair. The guys could have won despite this and lots of other shit. All that is normal stuff they must rise above, they are the All Blacks. And they nearly did.
However, I focus on the truth (as much as I can see).
Pull up a clip of the incident.- Naholo's head is sticking clear out, the ball is hidden in his lap
- Sean O'Brien (let's call him SOB haha) braces himself and tenses his right hand. His hand actually is angled up like a karate chop.
- SOB carefully lines up the head with a half movement, then connects. When SOB connects, his whole body is behind the other Lions tackler.
- SOB releases and backs away from the tackle area.
SOB wasn't committed to a tackle and didn't go down. SOB was at all time standing up braced for swinging an arm and minimal contact in the tackle.
I would have accepted a yellow. But it deserved a red, or failing that, citing and 2 week ban.
@Wairau said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
I would have accepted a yellow. But it deserved a red, or failing that, citing and 2 week ban.
This is a black mark against the officials, and Garces in particular. The SOB swinging arm should have been dealt with on the field. A penalty at least, but he couldn't have had any complaints if a YC was issued.
I expect both coaches are going to have plenty to say to Poite so he will be under pressure to get his decisions right. The last thing anyone wants is a controversial call to decide the game and series.
-
@Wairau said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
I would have accepted a yellow. But it deserved a red, or failing that, citing and 2 week ban.
This is a black mark against the officials, and Garces in particular. The SOB swinging arm should have been dealt with on the field. A penalty at least, but he couldn't have had any complaints if a YC was issued.
I expect both coaches are going to have plenty to say to Poite so he will be under pressure to get his decisions right. The last thing anyone wants is a controversial call to decide the game and series.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Wairau said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
I would have accepted a yellow. But it deserved a red, or failing that, citing and 2 week ban.
This is a black mark against the officials, and Garces in particular. The SOB swinging arm should have been dealt with on the field. A penalty at least, but he couldn't have had any complaints if a YC was issued.
I expect both coaches are going to have plenty to say to Poite so he will be under pressure to get his decisions right. The last thing anyone wants is a controversial call to decide the game and series.
That's why it was so frustrating that Garces was selected for the 2nd test. There was always going to be controversial calls left, right and centre that would take away from what was a brutal, awesome encounter. He's hopeless, but whoever chose him to ref a Lions v ABs match is worse.
-
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Wairau said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
I would have accepted a yellow. But it deserved a red, or failing that, citing and 2 week ban.
This is a black mark against the officials, and Garces in particular. The SOB swinging arm should have been dealt with on the field. A penalty at least, but he couldn't have had any complaints if a YC was issued.
I expect both coaches are going to have plenty to say to Poite so he will be under pressure to get his decisions right. The last thing anyone wants is a controversial call to decide the game and series.
That's why it was so frustrating that Garces was selected for the 2nd test. There was always going to be controversial calls left, right and centre that would take away from what was a brutal, awesome encounter. He's hopeless, but whoever chose him to ref a Lions v ABs match is worse.
-
@No-Quarter That would be Alain Rolland, World Rugby's High Performance 15s Match Officials' Manager.
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@No-Quarter That would be Alain Rolland, World Rugby's High Performance 15s Match Officials' Manager.
I don't understand why he feels the need to appoint three different referees for three games. Surely you pick the best available, and give him all three tests? That way the players can adapt to his style and get on with letting the rugby do the talking, instead of (particularly with Garces) trying to work out what the fuck he is even talking about for most of the game. There's no points for participation at this level, we need the best referee available every test. Use the "lesser" games to give others experience to prove themselves - there's plenty of pro rugby around.
There was one point early on where Garces was talking to I think BBBR and AWJ. He said "YOU PUSH EACH OTHER! AND NOW IT'S OVER!" then waved his hands in the air and walked away, leaving both players looking bemused. It was comical, which is a shame given the importance of this tour.
-
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@No-Quarter That would be Alain Rolland, World Rugby's High Performance 15s Match Officials' Manager.
I don't understand why he feels the need to appoint three different referees for three games. Surely you pick the best available, and give him all three tests? That way the players can adapt to his style and get on with letting the rugby do the talking, instead of (particularly with Garces) trying to work out what the fuck he is even talking about for most of the game. There's no points for participation at this level, we need the best referee available every test. Use the "lesser" games to give others experience to prove themselves - there's plenty of pro rugby around.
There was one point early on where Garces was talking to I think BBBR and AWJ. He said "YOU PUSH EACH OTHER! AND NOW IT'S OVER!" then waved his hands in the air and walked away, leaving both players looking bemused. It was comical, which is a shame given the importance of this tour.
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@No-Quarter That would be Alain Rolland, World Rugby's High Performance 15s Match Officials' Manager.
I don't understand why he feels the need to appoint three different referees for three games. Surely you pick the best available, and give him all three tests? That way the players can adapt to his style and get on with letting the rugby do the talking, instead of (particularly with Garces) trying to work out what the fuck he is even talking about for most of the game. There's no points for participation at this level, we need the best referee available every test. Use the "lesser" games to give others experience to prove themselves - there's plenty of pro rugby around.
There was one point early on where Garces was talking to I think BBBR and AWJ. He said "YOU PUSH EACH OTHER! AND NOW IT'S OVER!" then waved his hands in the air and walked away, leaving both players looking bemused. It was comical, which is a shame given the importance of this tour.
I kinda like that story if it's accurate. A bit of levity is no harm every now and then.
-
@Bovidae said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@No-Quarter That would be Alain Rolland, World Rugby's High Performance 15s Match Officials' Manager.
I don't understand why he feels the need to appoint three different referees for three games. Surely you pick the best available, and give him all three tests? That way the players can adapt to his style and get on with letting the rugby do the talking, instead of (particularly with Garces) trying to work out what the fuck he is even talking about for most of the game. There's no points for participation at this level, we need the best referee available every test. Use the "lesser" games to give others experience to prove themselves - there's plenty of pro rugby around.
There was one point early on where Garces was talking to I think BBBR and AWJ. He said "YOU PUSH EACH OTHER! AND NOW IT'S OVER!" then waved his hands in the air and walked away, leaving both players looking bemused. It was comical, which is a shame given the importance of this tour.
@No-Quarter yeah you wonder if his grasp on English is as good as it needs to be, given it seemed that Ayoub (no great endorsement I know...) thought Vunipola deserved more than a YC, but Garces wasn't having any of it.
Still think Read missed the opportunity to press for a YC on repeated infringements, although maybe he thought he'd not be able to convey it well enough? Who knows.
Agree that it would be a good idea to have the same ref through, for consistency of interpretations.
-
@No-Quarter yeah you wonder if his grasp on English is as good as it needs to be, given it seemed that Ayoub (no great endorsement I know...) thought Vunipola deserved more than a YC, but Garces wasn't having any of it.
Still think Read missed the opportunity to press for a YC on repeated infringements, although maybe he thought he'd not be able to convey it well enough? Who knows.
Agree that it would be a good idea to have the same ref through, for consistency of interpretations.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
yeah you wonder if his grasp on English is as good as it needs to be, given it seemed that Ayoub (no great endorsement I know...) thought Vunipola deserved more than a YC, but Garces wasn't having any of it.
I thought there were technical problems at times. During one of the TMO discussions Ayoub clearly said “can he hear me?” After getting no response from Garces
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
yeah you wonder if his grasp on English is as good as it needs to be, given it seemed that Ayoub (no great endorsement I know...) thought Vunipola deserved more than a YC, but Garces wasn't having any of it.
I thought there were technical problems at times. During one of the TMO discussions Ayoub clearly said “can he hear me?” After getting no response from Garces
@Duluth I thought Jerome was ignoring Ayoub who had the temerity to be addressing him in English.
-
@Duluth I thought Jerome was ignoring Ayoub who had the temerity to be addressing him in English.
-
@antipodean bit rich for anyone to be complaining about ayoub being ignored though isn't it?
@reprobate I complain about Ayoub being a TMO but the person who hires him doesn't seem to care about my thoughts on his competence.
-
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
yeah you wonder if his grasp on English is as good as it needs to be, given it seemed that Ayoub (no great endorsement I know...) thought Vunipola deserved more than a YC, but Garces wasn't having any of it.
I thought there were technical problems at times. During one of the TMO discussions Ayoub clearly said “can he hear me?” After getting no response from Garces
@Duluth @antipodean beat me to it, Garces was probably ignoring him, cos Ayoub...surely if we can hear him, Garces can?
But yeah, is amusing we are querying why Ayoub's instructions weren't followed
-
@JC Ach mate. I would't argue with the penalty thing. Farrell was holding on and Sexton was in an offside position. Both guilty but not picked up. However that is not why Perenera went wide. Which was the issue being discussed. Shitty stuff like that goes on all over the place but at this level it should not be an excuse if it doesn't materially affect what occurs. They're professionals after all.
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@JC Ach mate. I would't argue with the penalty thing. Farrell was holding on and Sexton was in an offside position. Both guilty but not picked up. However that is not why Perenera went wide. Which was the issue being discussed. Shitty stuff like that goes on all over the place but at this level it should not be an excuse if it doesn't materially affect what occurs. They're professionals after all.
When I watched the footage yesterday I felt that it was the kicking out of the hold that pushed TJP left. Now, TJP might have gone that way anyway and left the hole, but we'll never know because he 'was' held in the ruck illegally (and it's irrelevant if it's happened all tour). At the least Garces should have sent it to the TMO to review.
-
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@JC Ach mate. I would't argue with the penalty thing. Farrell was holding on and Sexton was in an offside position. Both guilty but not picked up. However that is not why Perenera went wide. Which was the issue being discussed. Shitty stuff like that goes on all over the place but at this level it should not be an excuse if it doesn't materially affect what occurs. They're professionals after all.
When I watched the footage yesterday I felt that it was the kicking out of the hold that pushed TJP left. Now, TJP might have gone that way anyway and left the hole, but we'll never know because he 'was' held in the ruck illegally (and it's irrelevant if it's happened all tour). At the least Garces should have sent it to the TMO to review.
@Nepia said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Catogrande said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@JC Ach mate. I would't argue with the penalty thing. Farrell was holding on and Sexton was in an offside position. Both guilty but not picked up. However that is not why Perenera went wide. Which was the issue being discussed. Shitty stuff like that goes on all over the place but at this level it should not be an excuse if it doesn't materially affect what occurs. They're professionals after all.
When I watched the footage yesterday I felt that it was the kicking out of the hold that pushed TJP left. Now, TJP might have gone that way anyway and left the hole, but we'll never know because he 'was' held in the ruck illegally (and it's irrelevant if it's happened all tour). At the least Garces should have sent it to the TMO to review.
Re the "held in the ruck" thing, just to be clear, I can't see that TJP was ever part of the ruck, there wasn't anybody bound to it at all that I can recall (I'll certainly take another look). Farrell came in through the gate, and dived straight onto the ground beyond it tackling TJP around the feet. No attempt to remain on his feet. No attempt to bind. No attempt to clear the ball, cause Murray already had hands on it. No "plane taking off" type clearout. Just a guy infringing and getting away with it.
