All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
Gatland's coached Wales for about 25 years. He was bound to win something in that time. Saying Henry failed miserably as Lions coach is incredibly harsh.
I don't want him as ab coach because he's a crybaby fuckwit. Had he been on the end of that reffing decision you would never hear the end of it.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in [All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3]
I don't want him as ab coach because he's a crybaby fuckwit.
This. So this.
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@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
Can we finally shift Dagg to 10, and Ardie to 12? What could possibly go wrong ...
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
Can we finally shift Dagg to 10, and Ardie to 12? What could possibly go wrong ...
@nzzp could draw with the Lions
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Winning the 2015 world cup has made people very soft.
We played like garbage in this series. We lost to Ireland last year, and were lucky that Australia and South Africa were so bad.
If you don't get upset about drawing a three match series at home then there's something wrong with you.
@Tim said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Winning the 2015 world cup has made people very soft.
We played like garbage in this series. We lost to Ireland last year, and were lucky that Australia and South Africa were so bad.
If you don't get upset about drawing a three match series at home then there's something wrong with you.
So this. Last year people were writing up all sorts of end of year reviews trying to gloss over the loss to Ireland as 'not defining the year' and writing at length about how 2016 had been a great year etc.
Harsh as it is, in ten years time, all history will remember is that in 2016 the All Blacks lost to Ireland for the first time since William Webb Ellis picked up the ball and ran with it. Kids picking up an almanack for the first time won't be worried about the journey or rebuilding post World Cup... ditto the 'historic first drawn series against the Lions'. What's made the All Blacks special for many years is that they just don't lose to the likes of Scotland or Japan like the Wallabies or the Springboks do.
"Ah, so 2016 was the first time we lost to Ireland, ah, so what happened the next year..." and so on. The joys and the pressures of expectations on the All Blacks.
Which makes it curious when the guy firing shots at Gatland the week before suddenly starts back peddling with 'just a game' talk leading into the third test...
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
Can we finally shift Dagg to 10, and Ardie to 12? What could possibly go wrong ...
@nzzp said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
Can we finally shift Dagg to 10, and Ardie to 12? What could possibly go wrong ...
Bring back Carl Hayman to #8, play Toeava everywhere from prop to water boy...
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@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
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Utterly ridiculous that Jordie wasn't kicking.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11736133
@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Utterly ridiculous that Jordie wasn't kicking.
http://www.nzherald.co.nz/sport/news/article.cfm?c_id=4&objectid=11736133
He probably kicked better during the Lions series than he did last year. But yeah it has always been a concern and he's also barely kicked during the Super season. Giraffe has.
At the end of the day, if players had been able to hold onto the fucking ball and not make idiotic decisions, BBs kicking would never have been an issue. About 6 tries were probably bombed last night.
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If you dont win, you lose.
While things are not ideal right now, I certainly dont think things are as bad as some are making out.
Chicago was a poor decision to run with the 2nd row we did, while maybe not the winning/losing, but was a big deal, but this was forced upon us by injuries to our top 3 locks.
We also had Crotty, SBW, Smith out for test 2/3 (obviously SBW did start test 2...) and then Naholo, Ioane for this one, I dont think their loss, particularly Crotty & Smith can be understated.
Both are creators and organisors, 2 of the main things we lacked in the past 2 weeks.
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@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
@canefan said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Donsteppa said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@SammyC said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
At this stage I'd prefer gatland to foster.
I'd prefer a collective voting panel of the Fern to Foster.
A better designed horse than the All Blacks backline regressing over the last three weeks
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If you dont win, you lose.
While things are not ideal right now, I certainly dont think things are as bad as some are making out.
Chicago was a poor decision to run with the 2nd row we did, while maybe not the winning/losing, but was a big deal, but this was forced upon us by injuries to our top 3 locks.
We also had Crotty, SBW, Smith out for test 2/3 (obviously SBW did start test 2...) and then Naholo, Ioane for this one, I dont think their loss, particularly Crotty & Smith can be understated.
Both are creators and organisors, 2 of the main things we lacked in the past 2 weeks.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
If you dont win, you lose.
While things are not ideal right now, I certainly dont think things are as bad as some are making out.
Chicago was a poor decision to run with the 2nd row we did, while maybe not the winning/losing, but was a big deal, but this was forced upon us by injuries to our top 3 locks.
We also had Crotty, SBW, Smith out for test 2/3 (obviously SBW did start test 2...) and then Naholo, Ioane for this one, I dont think their loss, particularly Crotty & Smith can be understated.
Both are creators and organisors, 2 of the main things we lacked in the past 2 weeks.
Not to mention Dane Coles out for the series, Ben Smith out for all but the whole series. It is disappointing we lost but at the end of the day our uncharacteristic lack of killer instinct and execution cost us games 2 & 3 (with or without SBW's RC). The replacements played ok but the little upgrades you get from having guys like Coles Crotty and BFA out there make a big difference IMHO
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@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
Gatland's coached Wales for about 25 years. He was bound to win something in that time. Saying Henry failed miserably as Lions coach is incredibly harsh.
I don't want him as ab coach because he's a crybaby fuckwit. Had he been on the end of that reffing decision you would never hear the end of it.
@Rancid-Schnitzel said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@MiketheSnow said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
For all those saying Gatland isn't fit to coach the ABs,
Graham Henry won 11 consecutive games as Wales coach, but won no silverware. And failed miserably as a Lions coach.
Steve Hansen won no silverware as Wales coach.
Gatland has won silverware for Wales and won & shared a series as Lions coach.
Give him the best cattle and he may become the best farmer.
And I'm not a Gatland fanboy, but appreciate what he's achieved.
Gatland's coached Wales for about 25 years. He was bound to win something in that time. Saying Henry failed miserably as Lions coach is incredibly harsh.
I don't want him as ab coach because he's a crybaby fuckwit. Had he been on the end of that reffing decision you would never hear the end of it.
Yep , getting back to the baseline for biggest fuckwit coaches of the pro era - Woodward . I doubt even he would stoop to the embarrassing whining that resulted in Carters one match ban a few years back. He probably would have had a PowerPoint presentation though.
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
If you dont win, you lose.
While things are not ideal right now, I certainly dont think things are as bad as some are making out.
Chicago was a poor decision to run with the 2nd row we did, while maybe not the winning/losing, but was a big deal, but this was forced upon us by injuries to our top 3 locks.
We also had Crotty, SBW, Smith out for test 2/3 (obviously SBW did start test 2...) and then Naholo, Ioane for this one, I dont think their loss, particularly Crotty & Smith can be understated.
Both are creators and organisors, 2 of the main things we lacked in the past 2 weeks.
Not to mention Dane Coles out for the series, Ben Smith out for all but the whole series. It is disappointing we lost but at the end of the day our uncharacteristic lack of killer instinct and execution cost us games 2 & 3 (with or without SBW's RC). The replacements played ok but the little upgrades you get from having guys like Coles Crotty and BFA out there make a big difference IMHO
@canefan oh Coles, yeah, well he's been out so long you forget about him!
Yeah we lacked the finesse in both games that were there for the taking...I guess the consolation is Laumape, JB, ALB, Ioane will have learnt alot about where they need to be to win at this level, and given how young they are, with some others waiting in the wings, that bodes well long term.
Last year probably papered over some cracks that the leaving of Mealamu, Woody, McCaw, Nonu & Smith left
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Hopefully we look back, after raising Bill in Tokyo in 2 years time, and look at this as one of the things that kept the group on it's toes. As far as positives go Shag has unearthed another gem from the Barrett family mine, Ioane looked pretty decent out there and Laumape did not shame himself either, so three players who could potentially feature in Japan
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One thing I find funny is that although some on here have used this result to decry our period of dominance over, people still don't really rate the Lions at all. Itoje is probably England's best player and had a great season last year but in the team of the year voting people still overwhelmingly went for Whitelock and Retallick. Similarly, I bet most on here would take Smith over Murray, Ben Smith over Liam Williams, Barrett over Sexton or Farrell, Cane over O'Brien, Read over Faletau, Kaino over Warburton or whatever. Players like Folau don't even get a look in.
In the World XV last year the only foreigners who made it were McGrath, Isa, Henshaw and Simon Zebo. 11 of the 15 were New Zealanders. The strange thing is that the only international coach we rate on par with Hansen is Eddie Jones.
I'm just saying that if people truly think our golden era is over and we are back in the pack then maybe people should start actually rating some foreign rugby players above our own ones. It's like some people want to say we aren't so good now but we are still much better than everyone else.
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One thing I find funny is that although some on here have used this result to decry our period of dominance over, people still don't really rate the Lions at all. Itoje is probably England's best player and had a great season last year but in the team of the year voting people still overwhelmingly went for Whitelock and Retallick. Similarly, I bet most on here would take Smith over Murray, Ben Smith over Liam Williams, Barrett over Sexton or Farrell, Cane over O'Brien, Read over Faletau, Kaino over Warburton or whatever. Players like Folau don't even get a look in.
In the World XV last year the only foreigners who made it were McGrath, Isa, Henshaw and Simon Zebo. 11 of the 15 were New Zealanders. The strange thing is that the only international coach we rate on par with Hansen is Eddie Jones.
I'm just saying that if people truly think our golden era is over and we are back in the pack then maybe people should start actually rating some foreign rugby players above our own ones. It's like some people want to say we aren't so good now but we are still much better than everyone else.
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@antipodean haha those bloody Barrett kids!
He sholda done that instead of going for the try
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Christ , I've gone and done it now. Say Woodwards name three times and he shows up and makes an utter cock of himself.
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Nowe that I'm sober, Poite should be held to account for this.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@hydro11 Maybe the coach has something to do with the execution? Maybe he organises training to execute the game plan? Maybe he has some vague relationship to the selection process? Maybe he can do something like choose a game plan to suit his players?
What an absolutely baffling post.
But he did choose a game plan to suit his players. For instance, he picked Savea because he wanted to have a power winger. He wanted a power winger because he wanted to run more at the inside channels. Ioane wouldn't have provided that.
Hansen also picked combinations - he brought in three Hurricanes players. So no excuses for a lack of execution there.
The real question for you is did you disagree with the plan of targeting the inside channels? If so, how would you have combated the rush defence?
@hydro11 I don't know how I would've combatted the rush defence - my fulltime job isn't coaching the All Blacks. I probably wouldn't have used the inside channel scheme in every game, and wouldn't have kicked so much ball away in the second half. More offloading runs from forwards (see Luatua vs the Lions) would've been nice.
The lack of impact from the bench was very noticeable in this series. S Barrett and A Savea simply aren't big or physical enough to have much impact against a large, quality pack like the Lions. Romano and Luatua would've been better options, with the (excellent) Cane playing 80 mins.
But then again, as Hansen put it, "it's just a game."
