All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3
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https://twitter.com/Hurricanesrugby/status/882676681537748993
- Joe Moody (27)
- Codie Taylor (18)
- Owen Franks (93)
- Brodie Retallick (63)
- Samuel Whitelock (87)
- Jerome Kaino (80)
- Sam Cane (43)
- Kieran Read (99) - Captain
- Aaron Smith (61)
- Beauden Barrett (52)
- Julian Savea (53)
- Ngani Laumape (1)
- Anton Lienert-Brown (12)
- Israel Dagg (64)
- Jordie Barrett (1)
Reserves:
16. Nathan Harris (7)
17. Wyatt Crockett (61)
18. Charlie Faumuina (49)
19. Scott Barrett (7)
20. Ardie Savea (15)
21. TJ Perenara (32)
22. Aaron Cruden (49)
23. Malakai Fekitoa (23)
Lions
- Mako Vunipola
- Jamie George
- Tadhg Furlong
- Maro Itoje
- Alun Wyn Jones
- Sam Warburton (captain)
- Sean O'Brien
- Taulupe Faletau
- Conor Murray
- Johnny Sexton
- Elliot Daly
- Owen Farrell
- Jonathan Davies
- Anthony Watson
- Liam Williams.
Resserves:
16. Ken Owens
17. Jack McGrath
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Courtney Lawes
20. CJ Stander
21. Rhys Webb
22. Ben Te'o
23. Jack Nowell
(booboos original post follows)
Flush the dunny.
ABs will be forced into more changes in the backs anyway.
Forwards should stay the same. And forwards bench unlikely to change.
Backs well ...
We'll be without Bender and SBW, probably Naholo and maybe Crotty still.
If Crotty is close to better they'll bring him in, but assuming he's not, and assuming all foyr as above are out what's your plan?
For me, given hiw Laumape went I'm starting him at 12.
Can Rieko play 14 (With Jules to 11)? I'm thinking of leaving him at 11 though and moving Izzy back to 14, with JB to 15.
Would give serious consideration to JB kicking.
Would need to find a new benchie. Does Julianuary offer enough cover from the bench? Would mean Rieko or maybe JB covering midfield.
Next in line appears to be Goodhue. Dmac could have a claim at that given both are injury replacements. Or have I forgotten someone?
As for the Lions I'd suggest lawes to start ... but am not really fussed about them. They'll be strong regardless.
Once again it will be as absolute war. If it's 15 on 15 for me is a 50:50 prospect.
It was funny watching yesterday as usually you have this feeling that the ABs just need to get some possession and they'll start to roll over the top. Just didn't get that impression yesterday. Although that may have been due to the numerical disadvantage.
Poite is likely to be weird but less weird than Garces. Of the two am pleased that he and not the other is reffing the decider. I'd prefer just about anyone else but is the lesser of the two evils.
We'll be interesting. Lions playing good rugby to come back into that game and deserve massive credit. I still think Warren G is a massive dick and hope he loses.
And hope the good guys win and send the chippy Pom Islanders home with their tails between their legs.
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https://twitter.com/Hurricanesrugby/status/882676681537748993
- Joe Moody (27)
- Codie Taylor (18)
- Owen Franks (93)
- Brodie Retallick (63)
- Samuel Whitelock (87)
- Jerome Kaino (80)
- Sam Cane (43)
- Kieran Read (99) - Captain
- Aaron Smith (61)
- Beauden Barrett (52)
- Julian Savea (53)
- Ngani Laumape (1)
- Anton Lienert-Brown (12)
- Israel Dagg (64)
- Jordie Barrett (1)
Reserves:
16. Nathan Harris (7)
17. Wyatt Crockett (61)
18. Charlie Faumuina (49)
19. Scott Barrett (7)
20. Ardie Savea (15)
21. TJ Perenara (32)
22. Aaron Cruden (49)
23. Malakai Fekitoa (23)
Lions
- Mako Vunipola
- Jamie George
- Tadhg Furlong
- Maro Itoje
- Alun Wyn Jones
- Sam Warburton (captain)
- Sean O'Brien
- Taulupe Faletau
- Conor Murray
- Johnny Sexton
- Elliot Daly
- Owen Farrell
- Jonathan Davies
- Anthony Watson
- Liam Williams.
Resserves:
16. Ken Owens
17. Jack McGrath
18. Kyle Sinckler
19. Courtney Lawes
20. CJ Stander
21. Rhys Webb
22. Ben Te'o
23. Jack Nowell
(booboos original post follows)
Flush the dunny.
ABs will be forced into more changes in the backs anyway.
Forwards should stay the same. And forwards bench unlikely to change.
Backs well ...
We'll be without Bender and SBW, probably Naholo and maybe Crotty still.
If Crotty is close to better they'll bring him in, but assuming he's not, and assuming all foyr as above are out what's your plan?
For me, given hiw Laumape went I'm starting him at 12.
Can Rieko play 14 (With Jules to 11)? I'm thinking of leaving him at 11 though and moving Izzy back to 14, with JB to 15.
Would give serious consideration to JB kicking.
Would need to find a new benchie. Does Julianuary offer enough cover from the bench? Would mean Rieko or maybe JB covering midfield.
Next in line appears to be Goodhue. Dmac could have a claim at that given both are injury replacements. Or have I forgotten someone?
As for the Lions I'd suggest lawes to start ... but am not really fussed about them. They'll be strong regardless.
Once again it will be as absolute war. If it's 15 on 15 for me is a 50:50 prospect.
It was funny watching yesterday as usually you have this feeling that the ABs just need to get some possession and they'll start to roll over the top. Just didn't get that impression yesterday. Although that may have been due to the numerical disadvantage.
Poite is likely to be weird but less weird than Garces. Of the two am pleased that he and not the other is reffing the decider. I'd prefer just about anyone else but is the lesser of the two evils.
We'll be interesting. Lions playing good rugby to come back into that game and deserve massive credit. I still think Warren G is a massive dick and hope he loses.
And hope the good guys win and send the chippy Pom Islanders home with their tails between their legs.
@booboo series and a long record at EP on the line next week!
Hope the weather plays ball and we get a cracker, for me last night was a bit of a let down after someone saw red and made it nigh on impossible.
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A bit of grunt and experience likely to be missing from the midfield. Do they bring Fekitoa back?
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Another option is Julian Savea at 11 (with Dagg at 14 and Jordie at 15) and name Rieko on the bench to cover wing and midfield (starting Laumape-ALB). IMO, with so many rookies, there's something to say for Jules' experience and starting him. But I am really, really hoping Crotty will be okay for test 3.
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It's a bit like this series is starting again with history having less relevance now.
The old "you're only as good as your last game" mantra evens the odds up massively.
So difficult to appraise and analyse the AB performance with that huge 25 minute elephant standing in the corner. But for the first 25 minutes we didn't play well either, as Read was quick to point out
This game has got a 50/50 feel to it now (emotion can be more fun than logic) and it'll be a week of genuine anticipation which is a grand thing. I often tell AFL supporters that All Black games and their lead up are like grand finals every week - this one certainly is.
Fekitoa gets a phone call? Na
Charlie Ngatai fit?
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Another option is Julian Savea at 11 (with Dagg at 14 and Jordie at 15) and name Rieko on the bench to cover wing and midfield (starting Laumape-ALB). IMO, with so many rookies, there's something to say for Jules' experience and starting him. But I am really, really hoping Crotty will be okay for test 3.
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Another option is Julian Savea at 11 (with Dagg at 14 and Jordie at 15) and name Rieko on the bench to cover wing and midfield (starting Laumape-ALB). IMO, with so many rookies, there's something to say for Jules' experience and starting him. But I am really, really hoping Crotty will be okay for test 3.
I did have that as an option SG.
And you're right. Not many caps in a Laumape-ALB-Ioane-JB option.
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Problem for crotty is the unpredictability of hamstring injuries, it can feel 100 percent , then bang
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Posted in the wrong thread, so brought this across.
OK, 12 hours on, and I'm now sobering up.
That was a great Lions effort. I think that their 8 matched (and bettered) ours for the first 25, and after that we were always only looking for parity. I think the taking off Kaino thing is a very, Cane and Reado can do a Richie and keep them out. I like the attitude that all the rest of the 8 can lift anothre 20%. They did too, but we needed 8 men doing that to match the lIons last night.
Our defence in the last 20 went to pieces, but I can understand much of that with tired legs.
Here's the thing, pretty much every time we attacked them with a back hitting it up 2-5 metres around the ruck, we made ground, and they either got offside or otherwise infringed. Had we made our kicks we would have won anyway, and if we had stuck with that plan and trusted it, I think we would have broken them down again. So, I'm actually pretty confident about our strategy. Right now, we have problems with execution.
I won't rehash the SBW thing again, but I'd drop him. I think Laumape showed enough last night to be the 12 to get this strategy over the line. If Crotty is fit, then I'd start him and bring ALB off the bench (mainly because I don't know how long Crotty would last). If not, then ALB to start and Goodhue to the bench.
I think we have to discuss the type of kicks Barrett missed last night. By the stats, it's not a terrible performance, but every other team has a kicker who would have probably gone 100% of those last night. It's been known for a while that he struggles, and last night it was a clear factor contributing to the loss. Do we address it? How? We are still poor under the high ball - they picked Joride, which should mean that he is ready. In that case, they should play him (I'm not sure he is ready, but they picked him). With him at 15, Dagg and 14, and a power wing at 11, we look much better and should be able to a) nail the catching, and b) improve goal kicking. Even if he is only there are a back up, it's worth considering. However, it's probably not a long term solution, as he doesn't look a natural 15. So, either way, we need Barrett to improve his goal kicking.
My changes: None up front, Crotty in at 13 with ALB to the bench and Laumape starting (SBW LTFO), 50/50 on Sopoaga in (Cruden out), Jordie to 15 and kicks goals (assuming Naholo isn't playing).
Shag really really needs to talk with the refs about off side, and Read needs to a) tell TJP to STFU and b) quietly and consistently remind the ref about the lost opportunities from Lions offsides.
Lastly, I guess they will start SBW - assuming he doesn't get a week off. However, I hope he just focuses on being accurate. Strong and accurate, and play within the laws. That's all we've ever needed from him since Nonu left, but he just can't fucking get it done.
@akan004 I don't think we need to be more adventurous - actually less. We seemed to lose trust in our ability o punch through them, which - with 15 on the park, we can do.
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@Stargazer said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Another option is Julian Savea at 11 (with Dagg at 14 and Jordie at 15) and name Rieko on the bench to cover wing and midfield (starting Laumape-ALB). IMO, with so many rookies, there's something to say for Jules' experience and starting him. But I am really, really hoping Crotty will be okay for test 3.
I did have that as an option SG.
And you're right. Not many caps in a Laumape-ALB-Ioane-JB option.
@booboo said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
@Stargazer said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Another option is Julian Savea at 11 (with Dagg at 14 and Jordie at 15) and name Rieko on the bench to cover wing and midfield (starting Laumape-ALB). IMO, with so many rookies, there's something to say for Jules' experience and starting him. But I am really, really hoping Crotty will be okay for test 3.
I did have that as an option SG.
And you're right. Not many caps in a Laumape-ALB-Ioane-JB option.
That's really the selector's fault though - they specifically said 'they're ready' so they should be. They replaced Smith with McKenzie, so even when they have the option of replacing guys with experienced people, they haven't. It's a dangerous strategy, but they should trust it. It fucks me off if they select a guy in the squad but don't pay him because he's inexperienced. In that case, don't fucking pick him for a Lions series.
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Posted in the wrong thread, so brought this across.
OK, 12 hours on, and I'm now sobering up.
That was a great Lions effort. I think that their 8 matched (and bettered) ours for the first 25, and after that we were always only looking for parity. I think the taking off Kaino thing is a very, Cane and Reado can do a Richie and keep them out. I like the attitude that all the rest of the 8 can lift anothre 20%. They did too, but we needed 8 men doing that to match the lIons last night.
Our defence in the last 20 went to pieces, but I can understand much of that with tired legs.
Here's the thing, pretty much every time we attacked them with a back hitting it up 2-5 metres around the ruck, we made ground, and they either got offside or otherwise infringed. Had we made our kicks we would have won anyway, and if we had stuck with that plan and trusted it, I think we would have broken them down again. So, I'm actually pretty confident about our strategy. Right now, we have problems with execution.
I won't rehash the SBW thing again, but I'd drop him. I think Laumape showed enough last night to be the 12 to get this strategy over the line. If Crotty is fit, then I'd start him and bring ALB off the bench (mainly because I don't know how long Crotty would last). If not, then ALB to start and Goodhue to the bench.
I think we have to discuss the type of kicks Barrett missed last night. By the stats, it's not a terrible performance, but every other team has a kicker who would have probably gone 100% of those last night. It's been known for a while that he struggles, and last night it was a clear factor contributing to the loss. Do we address it? How? We are still poor under the high ball - they picked Joride, which should mean that he is ready. In that case, they should play him (I'm not sure he is ready, but they picked him). With him at 15, Dagg and 14, and a power wing at 11, we look much better and should be able to a) nail the catching, and b) improve goal kicking. Even if he is only there are a back up, it's worth considering. However, it's probably not a long term solution, as he doesn't look a natural 15. So, either way, we need Barrett to improve his goal kicking.
My changes: None up front, Crotty in at 13 with ALB to the bench and Laumape starting (SBW LTFO), 50/50 on Sopoaga in (Cruden out), Jordie to 15 and kicks goals (assuming Naholo isn't playing).
Shag really really needs to talk with the refs about off side, and Read needs to a) tell TJP to STFU and b) quietly and consistently remind the ref about the lost opportunities from Lions offsides.
Lastly, I guess they will start SBW - assuming he doesn't get a week off. However, I hope he just focuses on being accurate. Strong and accurate, and play within the laws. That's all we've ever needed from him since Nonu left, but he just can't fucking get it done.
@akan004 I don't think we need to be more adventurous - actually less. We seemed to lose trust in our ability o punch through them, which - with 15 on the park, we can do.
@gt12 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Lastly, I guess they will start SBW - assuming he doesn't get a week off. However, I hope he just focuses on being accurate. Strong and accurate, and play within the laws. That's all we've ever needed from him since Nonu left, but he just can't fucking get it done.
To be fair, that's only his third game since Nonu left and he went alright against Samoa and in the first Lions test.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks v BI Lions Test #3:
Lastly, I guess they will start SBW - assuming he doesn't get a week off. However, I hope he just focuses on being accurate. Strong and accurate, and play within the laws. That's all we've ever needed from him since Nonu left, but he just can't fucking get it done.
To be fair, that's only his third game since Nonu left and he went alright against Samoa and in the first Lions test.
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I guess what we have learnt form the past, is the ABs tend to respond pretty well after a loss, especially as there will be alot of finger pointing and angst this week, around SBW, the decision to take Kaino off, decisions by BB & Cruden.
Also, I saw a graphic pop up on screen last night, and worked out Lions were due a win (think it meant they have won 1/5 consistantly against us) knew I should bet on them when we were up by 6...
@kiwiinmelb interesting, not sure it warrants any sanction, but I guess consistancy is what we are after right?
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I'm pretty surprised O'Brien has been cited for that, it was pretty innocuous. Can't see a suspension in it.
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One of the reasons the ABs never got much continuity (and zero tries) was the ridiculous number of infringements by the Lions. It felt like every time the ABs had possession in the Lions half, then there would be a penalty. And a man down and in those conditions, you have to take your penalties. And they were all kickable yet BB missed a couple of sitters. 10 kickable penalties in all - when you see a number like that, you wonder how the Lions were never on a team warning for repeated offences - especially as the offside line seemed to disappear completely at times.
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Still mulling over my side to conquer all, but some initial changes:
- Sopoaga in for Cruden on the bench, who played like he'd mentally already left NZ
- Would go with Leaumape at 12 and ALB at 13 on the assumption that Crotty won't make it.
- Back three, with Naholo fit I'd probably stick with the same, but would toy with the idea of 11. Dagg, 14. Naholo, and 15 J Barrett, or 11 Savea, 14 Naholo, 15 Dagg... for some reason it feels like some experience out there might be good, even though Ioane is probably playing better at the moment. J Barrett's defence gets questioned in the last line, but for some reason Izzy doesn't...
- I have a vague inkling that one position needs to change in the starting tight five, but would want to sift through stats before making any changes. Possibly Moody for Crockett. Could be completely unwarranted, but I have a feeling in 2 games out of three some of the starting Crusaders tight five have been outplayed on this tour.
Undoubtedly I'll change m mind several times before Thursday too...
