All Black Squad for Rugby Championship
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@mariner4life said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
well, what a huge number of surprises...
So we are effectively blaming Savea for fucking up the Lions series? No accountability
If we're talking about accountability then SBW should be nowhere near this squad.
@No-Quarter said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@mariner4life said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
well, what a huge number of surprises...
So we are effectively blaming Savea for fucking up the Lions series? No accountability
If we're talking about accountability then SBW should be nowhere near this squad.
Why? It's quite clear the AB's couldn't beat the Lions without him..
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@KiwiMurph I wouldn't give too much importance to the performance of the young lads against the B&I Lions, esp not Mo'unga (the only one to play against a test strength Lions team). It was a one off game without sufficient preparation at the required level.
I hope Mo'unga will be the apprentice on the EOYT (but not counting on it). Don't see Black anywhere near the ABs (hasn't shown anything in SR yet that warrants any expectation in that respect), and IMO DMac will never be more than an utitlity; and they're not even considering Jordie as a 10 at the moment. He doesn't see himself as a 10 either; he prefers 12 (that's what he's said in interviews). Mo'unga at this stage is IMO by far the best option for a future third 10 and I think they should start developing him sooner rather than later (for the reasons in my previous post). EOYT is a good time to bring him in to train with them, so they can have a close look at him, assess what his weak spots are and what he needs to work on most during the 2018 SR season. I'm not talking about giving him game time (obviously).
@Stargazer I believe Dmac was also playing against a test strength Lions for the Maori at 10. I think Mounga is a strong shout for the EOYT, not in an apprentince role (he's been around for a while) but as a genuine 10. I put Otere in the discussion as he's going to be a frontline 10 next year in Super and he was the only 10 to lead his side to a win over the Crusaders this season (dead rubber or not, it was an impressive performance). As excellent as Mounga has been he does get to play behind a powerhouse pack (7 All Blacks in the starting 8 and 2 more All Blacks forwards off the bench) that other NZ 10s do not get that luxury. I think it's a little harsh to say Otere is nowhere near the frame as it is more just a case of him not having the opportunities. Next year he'll get that shot.
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@Billy-Tell said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Happiest player out there has got to be Doug Howlett.
He could have owned that record by a mile if he chose to stay around. Classy, quality winger.
ALso amazed at how quickly wingers disappear. Any dominant wingers for the ABs (in the professional era) that were amazing after 26/27?
@nzzp said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Billy-Tell said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Happiest player out there has got to be Doug Howlett.
He could have owned that record by a mile if he chose to stay around. Classy, quality winger.
ALso amazed at how quickly wingers disappear. Any dominant wingers for the ABs (in the professional era) that were amazing after 26/27?
Classy winger for sure and one of my favourite AB's, but I think its a stretch to say that he would've broken the record by a mile given he was getting sporadic game time under Henry in 2007.
Come 2008 we still had Sivi and Rok in the ABs. The emergence of Hosea Gear, the Upper Hutt bogan, Kahui being turned into an AB wing. This all in happened in 2008 the year after Howlett left. What sort of game time will he have commanded in 2008 and beyond?
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@No-Quarter said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@mariner4life said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
well, what a huge number of surprises...
So we are effectively blaming Savea for fucking up the Lions series? No accountability
If we're talking about accountability then SBW should be nowhere near this squad.
Why? It's quite clear the AB's couldn't beat the Lions without him..
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Hansen talks to RS about the squad, in particular, Todd & Savea as well as Dmac, who is mentioned as cover at 10 and at a pinch....9
http://120.138.20.16/WeekOnDemand/radiosport/2017.08.07-17.00.00-S.mp3
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Hansen talks to RS about the squad, in particular, Todd & Savea as well as Dmac, who is mentioned as cover at 10 and at a pinch....9
http://120.138.20.16/WeekOnDemand/radiosport/2017.08.07-17.00.00-S.mp3
@taniwharugby said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Hansen talks to RS about the squad, in particular, Todd & Savea as well as Dmac, who is mentioned as cover at 10 and at a pinch....9
http://120.138.20.16/WeekOnDemand/radiosport/2017.08.07-17.00.00-S.mp3
I thought I saw something about him at 9 in the weekend.
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@taniwharugby said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Hansen talks to RS about the squad, in particular, Todd & Savea as well as Dmac, who is mentioned as cover at 10 and at a pinch....9
http://120.138.20.16/WeekOnDemand/radiosport/2017.08.07-17.00.00-S.mp3
I thought I saw something about him at 9 in the weekend.
@jegga that was a couple of weeks back I think, was more in reference to comments above about where he might not be playing....
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Annoying to have the press conference hijacked by the bugging crap. Wanted to hear about the players.
@Kirwan said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Annoying to have the press conference hijacked by the bugging crap. Wanted to hear about the players.
Yeah that was shit.
A few interesting comments from Hansen.
They don't see Fifita as lock cover so he is competing for 6. Not exactly sure what they see in him other than good height for the lineout. Don't think he has the physicality for a test 6.NMS brings a point of difference from the other wingers and isn't seen as a Fullback.
Dmac seen as 3rd 1st5 as a utility. Has anyone seen if he will actually join the squad ? Or just be on standby?
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@Kirwan said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
Annoying to have the press conference hijacked by the bugging crap. Wanted to hear about the players.
Yeah that was shit.
A few interesting comments from Hansen.
They don't see Fifita as lock cover so he is competing for 6. Not exactly sure what they see in him other than good height for the lineout. Don't think he has the physicality for a test 6.NMS brings a point of difference from the other wingers and isn't seen as a Fullback.
Dmac seen as 3rd 1st5 as a utility. Has anyone seen if he will actually join the squad ? Or just be on standby?
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
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@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.I wonder who they see as the backup 8. All of Squire, Cane, Ardie and Ioane are possibles for that role.
Elliot Dixon seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
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@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.I wonder who they see as the backup 8. All of Squire, Cane, Ardie and Ioane are possibles for that role.
Elliot Dixon seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
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@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.I wonder who they see as the backup 8. All of Squire, Cane, Ardie and Ioane are possibles for that role.
Elliot Dixon seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
@pukunui said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.I wonder who they see as the backup 8. All of Squire, Cane, Ardie and Ioane are possibles for that role.
Elliot Dixon seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
I reckon the clue to the back-up No. 8 is in that team announcement graphic that KiwiMurph posted.
The loosies are named in order as Cane, Savea, Kaino, Fifita, Read, Squire.
While he's doubtless equally comfortable at 6 and 8 these days - Squire started his provincial career as a specialist No. 8 who can play 6.
I'd be pretty surprised if he's not the second choice No. 8 - he's just not going to get much time playing there while Read is captain.
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@pukunui in the interview I posted above,Shag mentions that Ardie covers 7/8 while Cane covers 7/6/8 as a reason that Todd who plays 7 didnt make it.
@taniwharugby Although I can understand it for some positions, I'm not sure I agree with - what seems to be increasing the last few years - selections based on versatility/utility rather than necessarily being the best in a particular position. It's almost encouraging young players not to specialise in a specific position and just play anywhere in the backs, or anywhere in the backrow. Not sure whether that's a good thing.
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@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.I wonder who they see as the backup 8. All of Squire, Cane, Ardie and Ioane are possibles for that role.
Elliot Dixon seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
@pukunui said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.Yep. I had Akira in my list as I thought they would back themselves to get him ready for test footy as an enforcer 6. Maybe in the long term planning they have a style that suits an athletic skilled handler like Fifita over a powerful harder hitting Ioane.
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@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.I wonder who they see as the backup 8. All of Squire, Cane, Ardie and Ioane are possibles for that role.
Elliot Dixon seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
@pukunui said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.I wonder who they see as the backup 8. All of Squire, Cane, Ardie and Ioane are possibles for that role.
Elliot Dixon seems to have dropped off the face of the earth.
Dixon was not even the starter for the Landers this season. Squire and Evans were in front of him. So no way he could be named for the AB.
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@pukunui said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.Yep. I had Akira in my list as I thought they would back themselves to get him ready for test footy as an enforcer 6. Maybe in the long term planning they have a style that suits an athletic skilled handler like Fifita over a powerful harder hitting Ioane.
@Crucial said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.Yep. I had Akira in my list as I thought they would back themselves to get him ready for test footy as an enforcer 6. Maybe in the long term planning they have a style that suits an athletic skilled handler like Fifita over a powerful harder hitting Ioane.
Maybe due to age, they're taking a look at Fifita first before Akira? They might think they have to bring Fifita in now because he's already 25. If they see something in him, they probably need to try develop him sooner than later, because the older he gets, the harder it becomes to bring him in with the long term 6 position in mind.
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@Crucial said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.Yep. I had Akira in my list as I thought they would back themselves to get him ready for test footy as an enforcer 6. Maybe in the long term planning they have a style that suits an athletic skilled handler like Fifita over a powerful harder hitting Ioane.
Maybe due to age, they're taking a look at Fifita first before Akira? They might think they have to bring Fifita in now because he's already 25. If they see something in him, they probably need to try develop him sooner than later, because the older he gets, the harder it becomes to bring him in with the long term 6 position in mind.
@Dice said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Crucial said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@Bones said in All Black Squad for Rugby Championship:
@pukunui someone mentioned the other day when discussing Luatua...but this is where I see possible similarities between young Kaino and Fifita. Kaino was a rangy young fella who could do something like a back on the odd occasion on attack iirc, he wasn't rip, shit n bust for a few years.
Yeah fair enough. He definitely has potential.
Interesting that they see him ahead of Akira in that developing 6 role though.Yep. I had Akira in my list as I thought they would back themselves to get him ready for test footy as an enforcer 6. Maybe in the long term planning they have a style that suits an athletic skilled handler like Fifita over a powerful harder hitting Ioane.
Maybe due to age, they're taking a look at Fifita first before Akira? They might think they have to bring Fifita in now because he's already 25. If they see something in him, they probably need to try develop him sooner than later, because the older he gets, the harder it becomes to bring him in with the long term 6 position in mind.
Good point. I guess if Fifita works out for them now they can work on Ioane in the next wave.
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One thing about assessing/growing fringe players is that they need game time. So I imagine that with a view to the EOYT they'd rather see the contenders for third 10 playing Mitre 10 than only get training runs, even in the ABs.
And gives the Bus a chance to show what he's made of. -
With Fatialifa and Seu both to come back, there is still plenty of young talent coming through in the loose lock/6 jumper. I agree with Bones - I guess they want to see if they can make a Kaino-esque player out of Fifita. With a bit more weight and a stronger focus on aggressive defense, he could be a good international 6. He seems to have the tools, but lacks a bit in the physical stuff right now. Cane looks the most obvious Kaino enforcer right now.
When Squire is fit, I think he plays a nice 8 role, so we are fine when people are fit. I can't help thinking that hurt is during the Lions more than anything.
