All Blacks v France Test 3
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Happy to see Frizell there - i'd rather see someone who has a really high ceiling be given a crack rather than the underwhelming options that have been seen previously (Squire, Fifita).
How do you know he has a high ceiling? Hopefully he does, but nothing in his rugby so far suggests that - it's telling that he plays for Ta$man and @Chris-B doesn't even fluff him.
I didn't even know that Hemopo had been brought into the squad until yesterday. The selectors are loving on the Highlanders at the moment ... but at least Hemopo plays and is a Kiwi.
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Happy to see Frizell there - i'd rather see someone who has a really high ceiling be given a crack rather than the underwhelming options that have been seen previously (Squire, Fifita).
- it's telling that he plays for Ta$man and @Chris-B doesn't even fluff him.
That's not telling.
You'll struggle to find any fluffing of Ta$man players for the ABs by me.
Perry, Havili, Squire, Frizell - maybe a bit for Taufua, but I've a feeling he was planning to play in Japan rather than for the Mako this year.
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If the French somehow manage to slow this down, and their clever/experienced/tested combo midfield manage to pluck our raw pairing, they could win this. Esp if DMac starts trying to fix problems by crazy stuff. But if our boys get on a roll it'll be another shellacking - basically I have no idea what's going to happen. Nice to feel a little nervous ahead of this test, unlike the last two
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Happy to see Frizell there - i'd rather see someone who has a really high ceiling be given a crack rather than the underwhelming options that have been seen previously (Squire, Fifita).
How do you know he has a high ceiling? Hopefully he does, but nothing in his rugby so far suggests that - it's telling that he plays for Ta$man and @Chris-B doesn't even fluff him.
I didn't even know that Hemopo had been brought into the squad until yesterday. The selectors are loving on the Highlanders at the moment ... but at least Hemopo plays and is a Kiwi.
I disagree. He looked a special athlete vs the Blues when he scored a hat-trick (yes yes it's only the Blues and i'm taking that into consideration).
remember when Fifita scored that try against Aregentina, and people were falling over themselves to suck him off? Look how that turned out.
@mariner4life said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Happy to see Frizell there - i'd rather see someone who has a really high ceiling be given a crack rather than the underwhelming options that have been seen previously (Squire, Fifita).
How do you know he has a high ceiling? Hopefully he does, but nothing in his rugby so far suggests that - it's telling that he plays for Ta$man and @Chris-B doesn't even fluff him.
I didn't even know that Hemopo had been brought into the squad until yesterday. The selectors are loving on the Highlanders at the moment ... but at least Hemopo plays and is a Kiwi.
I disagree. He looked a special athlete vs the Blues when he scored a hat-trick (yes yes it's only the Blues and i'm taking that into consideration).
remember when Fifita scored that try against Aregentina, and people were falling over themselves to suck him off? Look how that turned out.
Turns out we already had a bunch of wingers.
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@chris-b said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bovidae ok but Squire, Taufua and Fifita are injured...
Which confirms that they see Akira as a no.8 and he is behind Whitelock and Frizell in their eyes.
I don't think I'd conclude that. As above, I wouldn't be surprised if Frizell has never played a minute of first class rugby at No. 8.
The discussion is the continued selection of Whitelock ahead of Ioane (at no.8) not whether Akira provides the best cover from the bench (which he doesn't). Hemopo has also been selected ahead of Franklin as he covers 6.
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bovidae ok but Squire, Taufua and Fifita are injured...
Which confirms that they see Akira as a no.8 and he is behind Whitelock and Frizell in their eyes.
I don't think I'd conclude that. As above, I wouldn't be surprised if Frizell has never played a minute of first class rugby at No. 8.
The discussion is the continued selection of Whitelock ahead of Ioane (at no.8) not whether Akira provides the best cover from the bench (which he doesn't). Hemopo has also been selected ahead of Franklin as he covers 6.
I don't see why you would conclude that this confirms that they see Akira as an 8 and especially that they see Frizell ahead of him there?
Or do you mean Frizell is ahead of him at 6? That's not very surprising, since he was selected in the full squad ahead of Akira.
I reckon they see capability in all of Whitelock, Squire, Taufua and Akira to play both 6 and 8 - but they probably prefer less experienced guys at 6 and more experienced guys at 8. If these were our four options I reckon Whitelock and Taufua would be the 8s at present.
I'm pretty surprised that Hansen is mentioning the prospect of Frizell shifting to 8.
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@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@chris-b said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bovidae said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@bovidae ok but Squire, Taufua and Fifita are injured...
Which confirms that they see Akira as a no.8 and he is behind Whitelock and Frizell in their eyes.
I don't think I'd conclude that. As above, I wouldn't be surprised if Frizell has never played a minute of first class rugby at No. 8.
The discussion is the continued selection of Whitelock ahead of Ioane (at no.8) not whether Akira provides the best cover from the bench (which he doesn't). Hemopo has also been selected ahead of Franklin as he covers 6.
I don't see why you would conclude that this confirms that they see Akira as an 8 and especially that they see Frizell ahead of him there?
Or do you mean Frizell is ahead of him at 6? That's not very surprising, since he was selected in the full squad ahead of Akira.
I reckon they see capability in all of Whitelock, Squire, Taufua and Akira to play both 6 and 8 - but they probably prefer less experienced guys at 6 and more experienced guys at 8. If these were our four options I reckon Whitelock and Taufua would be the 8s at present.
I'm pretty surprised that Hansen is mentioning the prospect of Frizell shifting to 8.
@chris-b At this stage I wouldn't be surprised if Hansen started mentioning Frizell at 10 - he's the golden child, young Toeava x 1000.
@machpants said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
If the French somehow manage to slow this down, and their clever/experienced/tested combo midfield manage to pluck our raw pairing, they could win this. Esp if DMac starts trying to fix problems by crazy stuff. But if our boys get on a roll it'll be another shellacking - basically I have no idea what's going to happen. Nice to feel a little nervous ahead of this test, unlike the last two
DMac will only start doing crazy stuff if our pack puts in a powder puff performance like last week. Hopefully they all go hard as this is the big chance for some of them to show their stuff.
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http://www.allblacks.com/News/32593/all-blacks-team-named-for-third-test
The matchday 23 is as follows (with Test caps in brackets. New Test All Blacks are in bold):-
Joe Moody (33)
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Codie Taylor (31)
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Owen Franks (97)
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Samuel Whitelock (98) - captain
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Scott Barrett (18)
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Shannon Frizell
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Ardie Savea (24)
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Luke Whitelock (4)
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Aaron Smith (73)
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Damian McKenzie (14)
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Rieko Ioane (15)
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Sonny Bill Williams (46)
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Jack Goodhue
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Waisake Naholo (18)
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Ben Smith (65)
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Liam Coltman (1)
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Karl Tu'inukuafe (2)
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Ofa Tuungafasi (16)
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Jackson Hemopo
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Matt Todd (13)
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TJ Perenara (44)
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Richie Mo'unga
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Jordie Barrett (4)
excited about that midfield.
@jaycee said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Joe Moody (33)
Codie Taylor (31)
Owen Franks (97)
Samuel Whitelock (98) - captain
Scott Barrett (18)
Shannon Frizell
Ardie Savea (24)
Luke Whitelock (4)
Aaron Smith (73)
Damian McKenzie (14)
Rieko Ioane (15)
Sonny Bill Williams (46)
Jack Goodhue
Waisake Naholo (18)
Ben Smith (65)Hmm. Anyone of those in the backrow you could probably have confidence in if surrounded by experience/ first choice players. As a collective, if the French aren't dreaming of mistresses, wine and sunshine, we could be in for a torrid time of it.
Which leads us to the elephant in the room; five-eighth. I get the felling SBW and Goodhue will have to do a lot of straight running.
This could also be the Test for BFA to show he still has what it takes at this level after looking decidedly outclassed on the wing.
If the French don't put int he same effort as last week, under a dry roof, this could become a rout, which will mask a lot of problems evident only a week ago.
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hopefully Dmac has been watching some re-runs of when SBW was outside Cruden for the Chiefs.
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@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Happy to see Frizell there - i'd rather see someone who has a really high ceiling be given a crack rather than the underwhelming options that have been seen previously (Squire, Fifita).
How do you know he has a high ceiling? Hopefully he does, but nothing in his rugby so far suggests that - it's telling that he plays for Ta$man and @Chris-B doesn't even fluff him.
I didn't even know that Hemopo had been brought into the squad until yesterday. The selectors are loving on the Highlanders at the moment ... but at least Hemopo plays and is a Kiwi.
I disagree. He looked a special athlete vs the Blues when he scored a hat-trick (yes yes it's only the Blues and i'm taking that into consideration).
This is exactly why I'm not a fan of this move - you're rating him on one game. What did he do in all the other games he played this year, and by games I mean short cameos.
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@kiwimurph said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Happy to see Frizell there - i'd rather see someone who has a really high ceiling be given a crack rather than the underwhelming options that have been seen previously (Squire, Fifita).
How do you know he has a high ceiling? Hopefully he does, but nothing in his rugby so far suggests that - it's telling that he plays for Ta$man and @Chris-B doesn't even fluff him.
I didn't even know that Hemopo had been brought into the squad until yesterday. The selectors are loving on the Highlanders at the moment ... but at least Hemopo plays and is a Kiwi.
I disagree. He looked a special athlete vs the Blues when he scored a hat-trick (yes yes it's only the Blues and i'm taking that into consideration).
This is exactly why I'm not a fan of this move - you're rating him on one game. What did he do in all the other games he played this year, and by games I mean short cameos.
You asked about his high ceiling and said nothing in his rugby suggests that. I pointed to a game in which his high ceiling was apparent. My point above is that I'm happy to see Frizell picked as Squire and Fifita have been given multiple chances and have mostly underwhelmed. I'm happy for some new blood to be given a go.
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So, my utterly pessimistic thoughts
Tight 5 i guess we are locked in to. All we can hope is that they actually front up this week, and S Barrett is as good as some think, and that the props aren't done.
Worst loose forward trio in living memory. Oh for the heady days of Sam Broomhall.
DMac at 10 will be, interesting to say the least. With SBW outside him he needs to play straighter than he usually does.
Midfield fucks me off. ALB deserves to play. SBW has barely played in a year, the other guy is a rookie. Boom or bust. And combinationless from 9-13.
Outside backs are okay i guess.
Bench? Sheeeet. Props have proven themselves. A new hooker was a necessity. I love Hemopo, but as a test player? Fuck TJ. Pimply Giraffe covering 12? Todd, you're cool though, should be starting. -
@chris-b At this stage I wouldn't be surprised if Hansen started mentioning Frizell at 10 - he's the golden child, young Toeava x 1000.
@machpants said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
If the French somehow manage to slow this down, and their clever/experienced/tested combo midfield manage to pluck our raw pairing, they could win this. Esp if DMac starts trying to fix problems by crazy stuff. But if our boys get on a roll it'll be another shellacking - basically I have no idea what's going to happen. Nice to feel a little nervous ahead of this test, unlike the last two
DMac will only start doing crazy stuff if our pack puts in a powder puff performance like last week. Hopefully they all go hard as this is the big chance for some of them to show their stuff.
@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@chris-b At this stage I wouldn't be surprised if Hansen started mentioning Frizell at 10 - he's the golden child, young Toeava x 1000.
That might be a slight exaggeration.
I don't think there would have been peep out of anyone if Akira was injured and Frizell had been picked - we would have been down to a choice of Shannon or Bedwell-Curtis (unless we pointlessly wound the clock back to Kaino or Messam).
I think it's not so much Shannon being a favourite son (though Hansen's even pretty much admitting he's a project - saying this game is a bit earlier than they'd have liked), just that Akira patently isn't!
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Interesting TAB odds for this week - French wound in from $10 to $7.50. AB's still only $1.07.
To me, this looks like quite a beatable AB team - certainly one that the wheels could come off, with loads of inexperience - and particularly on the bench. A big ask if we need the cavalry to come on - the ghost of General Custer might be sitting alongside them!
On the other hand - there are some exciting prospects - particularly interested to see how Frizell and Goodhue get on. I'm expecting Goodhue to go well. Shannon could be good or very bad.
Interesting to hear Hansen talking about possibly shifting Frizell to No. 8. I don't recall him ever playing there for the Mako - it's a position that's been occupied by Squire, Samu and Taufua over most of the past few seasons. Be doubtful that he's played there for the Highlanders either given their options.
"She's pretty big job, Steve"!
@chris-b said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
Interesting TAB odds for this week - French wound in from $10 to $7.50. AB's still only $1.07.
In OZ, the ABs are still paying $1.02 and the French are at $14. Madness.
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@nepia said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@chris-b At this stage I wouldn't be surprised if Hansen started mentioning Frizell at 10 - he's the golden child, young Toeava x 1000.
That might be a slight exaggeration.
I don't think there would have been peep out of anyone if Akira was injured and Frizell had been picked - we would have been down to a choice of Shannon or Bedwell-Curtis (unless we pointlessly wound the clock back to Kaino or Messam).
I think it's not so much Shannon being a favourite son (though Hansen's even pretty much admitting he's a project - saying this game is a bit earlier than they'd have liked), just that Akira patently isn't!
@chris-b Of course I'd still be peeping - he's not a Kiwi and he barely plays, that doesn't change if Akira doesn't exist.
@KiwiMurph Fair enough that you're happy to see him picked, I personally disagree that a one off highlight reel match suggests a high ceiling (but as I said earlier in thread I hope he lives up to Hansen's hype for the ABs sake), I'd prefer to see regular performances that show it but he just hasn't had the game time yet. I also don't think that Squire has been that bad.
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So, my utterly pessimistic thoughts
Tight 5 i guess we are locked in to. All we can hope is that they actually front up this week, and S Barrett is as good as some think, and that the props aren't done.
Worst loose forward trio in living memory. Oh for the heady days of Sam Broomhall.
DMac at 10 will be, interesting to say the least. With SBW outside him he needs to play straighter than he usually does.
Midfield fucks me off. ALB deserves to play. SBW has barely played in a year, the other guy is a rookie. Boom or bust. And combinationless from 9-13.
Outside backs are okay i guess.
Bench? Sheeeet. Props have proven themselves. A new hooker was a necessity. I love Hemopo, but as a test player? Fuck TJ. Pimply Giraffe covering 12? Todd, you're cool though, should be starting.@mariner4life Struggling to think of a weaker loose forward trio on paper.
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2164
Thomson, S Waldrom, Messam. Only Munster and we probably would have lost without the bench.
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2128
Collins, Masoe, Tuiali'i - the year we played Argentina and Ireland at the same time.http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2109
Gibbes, Holah, Rush - vs South Africa - we got dicked!http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2086
Randell, Holah, and the famous Broomhall - that's not too bad, except Taine had probably given up by this stage. -
@mariner4life Struggling to think of a weaker loose forward trio on paper.
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2164
Thomson, S Waldrom, Messam. Only Munster and we probably would have lost without the bench.
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2128
Collins, Masoe, Tuiali'i - the year we played Argentina and Ireland at the same time.http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2109
Gibbes, Holah, Rush - vs South Africa - we got dicked!http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2086
Randell, Holah, and the famous Broomhall - that's not too bad, except Taine had probably given up by this stage. -
@mariner4life Struggling to think of a weaker loose forward trio on paper.
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2164
Thomson, S Waldrom, Messam. Only Munster and we probably would have lost without the bench.
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2128
Collins, Masoe, Tuiali'i - the year we played Argentina and Ireland at the same time.http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2109
Gibbes, Holah, Rush - vs South Africa - we got dicked!http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2086
Randell, Holah, and the famous Broomhall - that's not too bad, except Taine had probably given up by this stage.@chris-b said in All Blacks v France Test 3:
@mariner4life Struggling to think of a weaker loose forward trio on paper.
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2164
Thomson, S Waldrom, Messam. Only Munster and we probably would have lost without the bench.
http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2128
Collins, Masoe, Tuiali'i - the year we played Argentina and Ireland at the same time.http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2109
Gibbes, Holah, Rush - vs South Africa - we got dicked!http://stats.allblacks.com/asp/teamsheet.asp?MT_ID=2086
Randell, Holah, and the famous Broomhall - that's not too bad, except Taine had probably given up by this stage.i would take every single one of those trios over what we have this saturday.
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2008: Braid, Kaino, Rodders.
Braid not good enough, Rodders past it, Kaino not yet beast most and replaced by epicly bad Lauaki.
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isn't it great being an AB fan!
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@chris-b Even our shit loose forward trios are generally decent. Despite the fact I'm leading the charge against one of our trio this week, I think they'll actually go quite well this week.
@nepia They'll probably be helped out by Naholo snaffling a few turnovers!
I think it was Meads who famously said, back in the day, something along the lines of "Why does it always take a loss to make the ABs play well."
We didn't lose on the scoreboard, but I think they'll be pretty stung by the shit performance, so we certainly should see the tight five fired up. Loosies will probably go OK on that basis.
I think SBW might be quite pivotal - if he has a good game then DMac is probably going OK (which means the forwards are probably going OK) and he'll be combining OK with Goodhue.
I don't have any doubts about Goodhue other than combining well with SBW. Contrary to M4L I'm delighted Goodhue is playing and hoping he has a storming game, so that he earns himself more starts. I'll be pissed if he has a shocker and drifts out of contention for a year, because I reckon that will just waste a year of the inevitability that he becomes our starting centre.
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@nepia They'll probably be helped out by Naholo snaffling a few turnovers!
I think it was Meads who famously said, back in the day, something along the lines of "Why does it always take a loss to make the ABs play well."
We didn't lose on the scoreboard, but I think they'll be pretty stung by the shit performance, so we certainly should see the tight five fired up. Loosies will probably go OK on that basis.
I think SBW might be quite pivotal - if he has a good game then DMac is probably going OK (which means the forwards are probably going OK) and he'll be combining OK with Goodhue.
I don't have any doubts about Goodhue other than combining well with SBW. Contrary to M4L I'm delighted Goodhue is playing and hoping he has a storming game, so that he earns himself more starts. I'll be pissed if he has a shocker and drifts out of contention for a year, because I reckon that will just waste a year of the inevitability that he becomes our starting centre.
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@mariner4life That one against Munster was pretty awful.
That was Scott Waldrom's only game ever for the ABs and Messam's second ever match, so he was still "headless chook" Messam. I think I'd take this week's combo over that one.
The Gibbes, Holah, Rush one was pretty earnest, but low on talent - Holah redeems it. I think it was the last time Gibbes or Rush played for the ABs.
As I recall, Gibbes didn't turn up!
