Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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After the last 7 days, 2018 suddenly feels a lot like 1998, with the distinct difference being that back then we spent most of the year playing much better sides.
Obviously all observations and theories come with the massive caveat that i have absolutely no idea what plan the coaches are working to (if indeed there is one) that might affect performances, tactics, and outcomes.
However, this is a sports forum, and it's a place for us, the great unwashed, to cast our theories out as if we know all, and should be listened to.
Tactics Tim
What the fuck are our tactics? From the outside our plan looks like we spend 60 minutes trying to wear teams out, and then hammer them in the last 20. Our attack has been fucking basic all year, and suddenly looks old-school Boks-esque in that we spend a lot of time smacking in to teams, trying to bash them in to submission. And yet we don't pick personel suited to that game plan. Edge runners, tall blokes, and static props; backed up by a no power midfielder except a dude who hasn't run a crash ball in 2 years.Remember 2003 when we murdered everyone from turnover? Well there are a lot of times when it looks for all the world like that is our only go-to at the moment. Crash ball or punish bad kicks.
This presents a huge problem when the opposition kick well, and you can't generate a turnover because our excellent counter-ruck game has disappeared.
So that raises the question, have we run out of ideas, or did we just spend a year deliberately under-playing our hand?
Defense
Okay what is the go here? We are not playing rush, okay no worries. We have this strange sort of defense where we take a few quick steps then sit back. There also seems to be a point where if they get the ball outside a certain point, we back off and wait for support. We leak a lot more linebreaks and metres than i remember us ever giving up. We're not giving up scores though, because we usually still scramble as well as anyone. We also have started falling off tackles as we start looking for the ball instead of completing the tackle first, worrying about the rest later. That may be linked to the distinct lack of turnover ball mentioned above.Set Piece
Our nice point of difference. Scrum is good (creaked today, but at worst shared the honours i thought) and our lineout is in the main deadly.Players
Well now, the big question, do we have the guys int eh right spots to play the way we want? The bigger question, do the coaches have the stones to drop a big name who may not be fitting what they want? Is there a clear path in their mind for next year? And is that path realistic? or does it rely on a player "coming good" like it did in 2015?That last World Cup actually fills me with a little more confidence. A year out some dudes looked done who were very much not. And we looked like shit as late as the Group stages, but that was part of the plan (apparently).
I really just want to talk about the loose forwards at the moment. Our best 7 broke his neck, and may not make it back. Our next best 7 has been playing bloody well, but is a completely different player. Our captain and only test 8 option is going alright for the main, but is running on what look very old legs. He's slipped in to a tight role i think because he can't play the wide game any more. Who plays 6 is as undecided as any position on the field, hell we have an entire thread on it where few agree. I want to talk about balance. I spoke below about the distinct lack of speed today, and to me, this is our issue. We want to play wide, but do we have the players in these crucial spots to do it? If our first choice trio is Cane, Read, and Squire, that's not real quick. S Barrett off the bench isn't quick either. It's for that reason i can see why Fifita was stuck with for so long, he actually has the wheels to balance that trio out. He's just not good enough. Read's lack of pace actually rules out a few guys for that spot in my eyes, unless Savea is playing, and we change the way the guys operate.
I also wouldn't mind a decent fucking ball runner somewhere in the 13 forwards we pick. One guy who can repeatedly dent the line in the tough stuff. We don't have that at the moment. Our best guys are locks, and that's not ideal, too bloody tall!
In conclusion for this long rambling brain dump, this year was shit, and we have some glaring fucking holes that i can see from the cheap seats. The optimist in me says this year was a holding period to get us through to the ultimate goal next year, while not losing ranking or the Bledisloe. The other option is we have finally got stale/complacent/caught up to. It's far from doom and gloom, we pushed a very good #2 side in the world playing at home right to the wire. It's just not what we are used to.
@mariner4life This is a very good point. But it also wouldn't hurt if you picked some backs who could bend the line in heavy traffic.
Everyone talks about how chips and grubbers are a way to unlock a rush defence. And sure they are. But crawl through this thread and count the moaning on all the kicks. They're bloody hard to execute well, and once you give players a licence to do them they become infectious. So you lose promising attacking positions because instead of recycling, some wing or loosie has grubbered the ball away.
A much better answer to a rush defence is to pass early to a big, fast, nimble meathead while making the defence second guess itself. But to do that, you need to select some big, fast, nimble meatheads. And I for one hope that your selectors continue to ignore the obvious solution to your current backline ineffectiveness.
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@mariner4life said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Oh, and one more, we are kicking a lot, but our kicks are shit. Either 10m too long, or 10m too short. We contest fuck all, just hand the ball back. Barrett, Smith especially, and DMac need to take responsibility for that, it's just not good enough. Our contested kicks used to be the weapon that got us out of our end, now they just invite endless pressure.
And what is with the mealy mid-range nothing kick offs we can't contest, or that force them back in to the corner?
This. The kicking has been woeful. There is no point putting up kicks if they can't even be contested. Ireland fucked us big time in this regard and that was even without their best no. 9.
I know this won't be popular, particularly based on his form in the latter part of the year, but I think they need to get Jordie at fullback. If, as I suspect, every team will try and bomb us into submission, then the flying giraffe will be more valuable than the mighty midget. DMac is brave, but he's simply too small to compete.
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Things that annoy me about half-backs.
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Now the defensive line has to stay onside until the ball is lifted off the ground, the half-back is setting himself to pass with his hands on the ball, sort of pauses after the initial movement, line moves up offside, then he throws the pass and catches them offside. Little shit.
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Half back has a perfectly stable scrum in front of him but doesn't put the ball in, scrum starts to become unstable as defensive side get edgy so he pauses some more, ref gives him a free kick or penalty for early shove. Little shit.
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Ball sitting at the back of the ruck. Ref calls, "still in" as there is one boot behind the ball. Half-back pauses, looks around. Ref shouts "use it". half-back pauses some more, puts his hand on the ball, pauses. Defensive side get edgy waiting to charge the box kick. Half-back pauses and looks around again. Defender topples offside, kick, penalty. Little shit.
In summary, stop trying to protect the little shits by tweaking the laws as they will just take advantage.
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Things that annoy me about half-backs.
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Now the defensive line has to stay onside until the ball is lifted off the ground, the half-back is setting himself to pass with his hands on the ball, sort of pauses after the initial movement, line moves up offside, then he throws the pass and catches them offside. Little shit.
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Half back has a perfectly stable scrum in front of him but doesn't put the ball in, scrum starts to become unstable as defensive side get edgy so he pauses some more, ref gives him a free kick or penalty for early shove. Little shit.
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Ball sitting at the back of the ruck. Ref calls, "still in" as there is one boot behind the ball. Half-back pauses, looks around. Ref shouts "use it". half-back pauses some more, puts his hand on the ball, pauses. Defensive side get edgy waiting to charge the box kick. Half-back pauses and looks around again. Defender topples offside, kick, penalty. Little shit.
In summary, stop trying to protect the little shits by tweaking the laws as they will just take advantage.
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Ok. My head is better now.
Good game at the weekend - don’t know if anyone saw it...@derm-mccrum said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Ok. My head is better now.
Good game at the weekend - don’t know if anyone saw it...It was a struggle to see much actually, with that pea-souper mist of dry powder blocking my view of the telly.
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@rancid-schnitzel Both me and Willie Le Roux are in favour of this selection.
@smuts said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@rancid-schnitzel Both me and Willie Le Roux are in favour of this selection.
Be careful what you wish for.
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@nta said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@mn5 we're going to get fucked smashed by England so...
Is this you foxing or displaying uncharacteristially un Australian humility?
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@mariner4life This is a very good point. But it also wouldn't hurt if you picked some backs who could bend the line in heavy traffic.
Everyone talks about how chips and grubbers are a way to unlock a rush defence. And sure they are. But crawl through this thread and count the moaning on all the kicks. They're bloody hard to execute well, and once you give players a licence to do them they become infectious. So you lose promising attacking positions because instead of recycling, some wing or loosie has grubbered the ball away.
A much better answer to a rush defence is to pass early to a big, fast, nimble meathead while making the defence second guess itself. But to do that, you need to select some big, fast, nimble meatheads. And I for one hope that your selectors continue to ignore the obvious solution to your current backline ineffectiveness.
@smuts said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@mariner4life This is a very good point. But it also wouldn't hurt if you picked some backs who could bend the line in heavy traffic.
Everyone talks about how chips and grubbers are a way to unlock a rush defence. And sure they are. But crawl through this thread and count the moaning on all the kicks. They're bloody hard to execute well, and once you give players a licence to do them they become infectious. So you lose promising attacking positions because instead of recycling, some wing or loosie has grubbered the ball away.
A much better answer to a rush defence is to pass early to a big, fast, nimble meathead while making the defence second guess itself. But to do that, you need to select some big, fast, nimble meatheads. And I for one hope that your selectors continue to ignore the obvious solution to your current backline ineffectiveness.
Not sure I completely agree with that. Even the biggest munters will struggle if they are flat footed against a rush defense.
For me, the key to unlocking a rush defense is the forwards manning the fuck up and getting over the gain line in close. Much harder to rush up in a line if you keep having to backpedal, especially if we can get some quick ruck ball.
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@smuts said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@mariner4life This is a very good point. But it also wouldn't hurt if you picked some backs who could bend the line in heavy traffic.
Everyone talks about how chips and grubbers are a way to unlock a rush defence. And sure they are. But crawl through this thread and count the moaning on all the kicks. They're bloody hard to execute well, and once you give players a licence to do them they become infectious. So you lose promising attacking positions because instead of recycling, some wing or loosie has grubbered the ball away.
A much better answer to a rush defence is to pass early to a big, fast, nimble meathead while making the defence second guess itself. But to do that, you need to select some big, fast, nimble meatheads. And I for one hope that your selectors continue to ignore the obvious solution to your current backline ineffectiveness.
Not sure I completely agree with that. Even the biggest munters will struggle if they are flat footed against a rush defense.
For me, the key to unlocking a rush defense is the forwards manning the fuck up and getting over the gain line in close. Much harder to rush up in a line if you keep having to backpedal, especially if we can get some quick ruck ball.
@no-quarter said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@smuts said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@mariner4life This is a very good point. But it also wouldn't hurt if you picked some backs who could bend the line in heavy traffic.
Everyone talks about how chips and grubbers are a way to unlock a rush defence. And sure they are. But crawl through this thread and count the moaning on all the kicks. They're bloody hard to execute well, and once you give players a licence to do them they become infectious. So you lose promising attacking positions because instead of recycling, some wing or loosie has grubbered the ball away.
A much better answer to a rush defence is to pass early to a big, fast, nimble meathead while making the defence second guess itself. But to do that, you need to select some big, fast, nimble meatheads. And I for one hope that your selectors continue to ignore the obvious solution to your current backline ineffectiveness.
Not sure I completely agree with that. Even the biggest munters will struggle if they are flat footed against a rush defense.
For me, the key to unlocking a rush defense is the forwards manning the fuck up and getting over the gain line in close. Much harder to rush up in a line if you keep having to backpedal, especially if we can get some quick ruck ball.
Absolutely. On the odd occasion we actually did that we got fairly easy metres and the Paddies weren't able to get forward to fast. We just couldn't seal the deal
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That's alright, then: http://www.allblacks.com/News/33471/test-review-provided-optimism-for-all-blacks
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That's alright, then: http://www.allblacks.com/News/33471/test-review-provided-optimism-for-all-blacks
@pakman said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
That's alright, then: http://www.allblacks.com/News/33471/test-review-provided-optimism-for-all-blacks
Phew - we’re not favorites any more. I knew it was all a big mistake.
I love the smell of burning underdog in the morning....
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@donsteppa was looking at my TAB account last night when NZ were paying $15 with the Pakis needing 27 runs and 6 wkts in hand..thought about it,and thought nah..that ain’t gonna happen..
Woke up this morning..WTF..!@steven-harris said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@donsteppa was looking at my TAB account last night when NZ were paying $15 with the Pakis needing 27 runs and 6 wkts in hand..thought about it,and thought nah..that ain’t gonna happen..
Woke up this morning..WTF..!I wonder if some of the Pakistani players placed that bet?
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@steven-harris said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@donsteppa was looking at my TAB account last night when NZ were paying $15 with the Pakis needing 27 runs and 6 wkts in hand..thought about it,and thought nah..that ain’t gonna happen..
Woke up this morning..WTF..!I wonder if some of the Pakistani players placed that bet?
@akan004 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@steven-harris said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@donsteppa was looking at my TAB account last night when NZ were paying $15 with the Pakis needing 27 runs and 6 wkts in hand..thought about it,and thought nah..that ain’t gonna happen..
Woke up this morning..WTF..!I wonder if some of the Pakistani players placed that bet?
I had thought of mentioning that but didn't want to detract from a famous victory. It's a shame though that when something away from the normal run of things happens with Pakistan there is always that nagging thought.
Broad's century is one.
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Very interesting powder dry and\or exhaustion analysis
http://www.rugbypass.com/news/analysis-did-the-all-blacks-bottle-it-and-shadow-box-against-ireland/
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So, was Sam Whitelock sitting on the ground, offside, slapping an Irish pass forward not something we're keeping dry for next year?
Pleased about that. Small mercies.
@rapido said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
So, was Sam Whitelock sitting on the ground, offside, slapping an Irish pass forward not something we're keeping dry for next year?
Pleased about that. Small mercies.
You can take the boy out of the Crusaders, but you can't take the Crusader out of the boy?
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@snowy said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Maybe Ireland are just better than they were when D'Arcy played for them.
He must be a hoot at functions: "Congrats boys, well done but you're lucky you didn't play good All Black teams like I had to."
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