Ireland vs All Blacks (2018)
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@steven-harris said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Outplayed and out coached by the Irish on the day,no real complaints from me.
Not the end of the world, but I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest signs of staleness within this coaching group.No question it was a points decision to Joe Schmidt after this mornings match and that what’s worrying me
We have the players,but is this coaching group getting the best of out of this group..?I guess it all depends on if you believe Hansen, that we're trying new things and they're taking time to bed in (along with the powder dry theory) or if this is currently all we've got and the best we can hope for is a few players freshening up and some marginal improvements from the likes of Moody and Cane coming back (seemed like Ireland were missing more key players than us?).
Really we could easily have lost four games this year and something that seems to have changed in recent weeks (since the loss to SA) is that we've been kicking the ball a lot more. Understandable in the wet against England, but it hasn't worked for us.
What might prove to be a bit of a mistake is is Hansen's sticking too rigidly to his idea that you don't lose your place through injury. I'm inclined to think George Bridge should have been picked for TRC instead of NMS and maybe we would have discovered that our best back three is Ioane, Bridge and Smith. (Since Squire is apparently broken, I'd put him on a plane home and replace him with Bridge - and play George).
Other one is SBW. They've tried playing him into form when maybe he should have been sent to M10 Cup and Laumape been given a chance. Today's backline configuration seems to lack a really big munter who can punch holes in the line. Which is why I can see why they've been keen to retain SBW, but maybe they should have backed Laumape.
All in all, we seem to have quite a few problems in the backs. We also have some potential solutions, but those solutions are green as grass and I'm pretty convinced Hansen will stick with experience unless his hand is forced through injury.
In the forwards, I'd like to think it's just a matter of fine-tuning, freshening up and bringing back a few key players. We won the lineouts today, bounced back in the scrums and it wasn't the forwards (very often) who wastefully kicked possession away and forced us to defend for most of the first 60 minutes.
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@chris-b hoping you are right,and I hate to state the obvious,these end of season tours wether it’s the North heading South in July or us heading up to the their autumn..how full are the tanks both mentally and physically for both parties...?..
Several looked flat today,I would have gone for pace in the loose and started both Ardie and Todd@steven-harris I think without a doubt the EOSTs are tough on the travelling teams. Reading about Sam Whitelock's injury problems earlier this week - no wonder he's not looked his usual self.
Also I'm thinking Beauden's probably pretty mentally fatigued. Who else has played big minutes this season - Codie Taylor, Aaron Smith, Reiko Ioane - probably Ben Smith.
Some of the others have had truncated seasons due to injury, but even then, maybe they're just not quite as hungry as they need to be.
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@steven-harris I think without a doubt the EOSTs are tough on the travelling teams. Reading about Sam Whitelock's injury problems earlier this week - no wonder he's not looked his usual self.
Also I'm thinking Beauden's probably pretty mentally fatigued. Who else has played big minutes this season - Codie Taylor, Aaron Smith, Reiko Ioane - probably Ben Smith.
Some of the others have had truncated seasons due to injury, but even then, maybe they're just not quite as hungry as they need to be.
@chris-b suspect both are banged up,even Read took a knock just before halftime..quite frankly I would not play any of them against Italy especially if they are carrying injuries ..
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@chris-b Agreed on carrying frequently injured players. Add Squire to that list.
Hansen is a pretty arrogant coach, who has proven unwilling to tailor selections to the opposition, or to put results before loyalty.
@tim said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@chris-b Agreed on carrying frequently injured players. Add Squire to that list.
Hansen is a pretty arrogant coach, who has proven unwilling to tailor selections to the opposition, or to put results before loyalty.
Yes, well, I'm still mystified as to why Joe Moody needed to get those warm-up minutes in that semi-final, but Liam Squire didn't.
Bad news for Blues fans - Hansen doesn't answer his phone when Leon calls!
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ABs complacent, and only got serious in last 20 or so. Trying things, and not playing to win.
Suspect the result would have been different if this was the RWC final.
That said, hard to feel comfortable about our 9 -10 axis. We seem to be vulnerable if plan A doesn't work.
Hope Shag really rubs it in tonight.
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@chris-b Agreed on carrying frequently injured players. Add Squire to that list.
Hansen is a pretty arrogant coach, who has proven unwilling to tailor selections to the opposition, or to put results before loyalty.
@tim TBH I think while Shag is part of the problem, I think it's his 'team' that just isnt up to it anymore, but this is where Shag as top dog needs to sort shit.
There have always been question marks over Foster, although I think the presence of Wayne SMith papered over some of his definciencies.
Seems today, we had 1 game plan, and refused to deviate.
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Some things that we are doing is puzzling to me.
For instance, it seems strange as to why we are not employing a rush defence when all the top teams are doing it. It's not like our current D is so great anyway. Ireland pretty much won that game on the back of their rush defence. Am sure they wouldn't have made the easy metres in the 1st half either if we had been in their faces.
I have always had a lot of confidence in the coaching team but that's gone this year. Worrying times.
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The squad has passengers like Franks , A Smith, SBW, and NMS. These guys are average repeatedly, and yet other up and comers aren't being given an opportunity.
I know McCaw was a once in a lifetime player, but where we miss him more is captaincy. His head was so cool it was Arctic. You think Smith and co would be fucking about with box kicks every two mins with Richie in charge? Or players acting like headless chooks? Read was once a great player, but his legs look tired, and he's not a great captain under pressure at all. The ABs lacked direction today, like each of them was waiting for someone else to do the brilliant thing that would snatch the win. And nobody did. Ireland beat us up in the forwards, and forced us onto the back foot for most of the game. Our backline had no structure. it wasn't pretty. Meh.
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@steven-harris said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Outplayed and out coached by the Irish on the day,no real complaints from me.
Not the end of the world, but I have seen plenty of evidence to suggest signs of staleness within this coaching group.No question it was a points decision to Joe Schmidt after this mornings match and that what’s worrying me
We have the players,but is this coaching group getting the best of out of this group..?I guess it all depends on if you believe Hansen, that we're trying new things and they're taking time to bed in (along with the powder dry theory) or if this is currently all we've got and the best we can hope for is a few players freshening up and some marginal improvements from the likes of Moody and Cane coming back (seemed like Ireland were missing more key players than us?).
Really we could easily have lost four games this year and something that seems to have changed in recent weeks (since the loss to SA) is that we've been kicking the ball a lot more. Understandable in the wet against England, but it hasn't worked for us.
What might prove to be a bit of a mistake is is Hansen's sticking too rigidly to his idea that you don't lose your place through injury. I'm inclined to think George Bridge should have been picked for TRC instead of NMS and maybe we would have discovered that our best back three is Ioane, Bridge and Smith. (Since Squire is apparently broken, I'd put him on a plane home and replace him with Bridge - and play George).
Other one is SBW. They've tried playing him into form when maybe he should have been sent to M10 Cup and Laumape been given a chance. Today's backline configuration seems to lack a really big munter who can punch holes in the line. Which is why I can see why they've been keen to retain SBW, but maybe they should have backed Laumape.
All in all, we seem to have quite a few problems in the backs. We also have some potential solutions, but those solutions are green as grass and I'm pretty convinced Hansen will stick with experience unless his hand is forced through injury.
In the forwards, I'd like to think it's just a matter of fine-tuning, freshening up and bringing back a few key players. We won the lineouts today, bounced back in the scrums and it wasn't the forwards (very often) who wastefully kicked possession away and forced us to defend for most of the first 60 minutes.
@chris-b actually I think both forwards and backs were crap. But much harder to be good in backs if forwards not going forward. Issues with forwards - those first half penalties were primarily them and some just very poor from senior players, we didn’t win contact ( poor ) or tackle ball, two penalties in first half at scrum time when we were dominated.
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@chris-b actually I think both forwards and backs were crap. But much harder to be good in backs if forwards not going forward. Issues with forwards - those first half penalties were primarily them and some just very poor from senior players, we didn’t win contact ( poor ) or tackle ball, two penalties in first half at scrum time when we were dominated.
@kev Yeah - they got dominated for 60 minutes today, but generally I think they're a pretty solid pack. I don't have too many concerns that when we need a big effort from them at the RWC that we will get it.
I think there's a few more fundamental issues in the backs, right now.
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Was a good game of rugby to watch. Loved seeing the ABs under huge pressure two weeks in a row. Just an English foot away from being a complete horror of EOY tour.
Thought Ardie and Scott Barret were the pick of the forwards while the midfield defended strongly. We really need a plan b when plan a (Bbbr) doesn't play well.
Beaudy continues to struggle but I didn't think RM looked much better. Just played a different game that Ireland took in their stride. Heaps of flat and short passes but they never seemed like scoring.
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Reads whinging to the ref is pretty embarrassing.
.....and I don't recall an AB debut half as eagerly anticipated as Akira Ioanes. Ever. His fern legend is the stuff Charlie Ngatai could only dream about.
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Reads whinging to the ref is pretty embarrassing.
.....and I don't recall an AB debut half as eagerly anticipated as Akira Ioanes. Ever. His fern legend is the stuff Charlie Ngatai could only dream about.
@mn5 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Reads whinging to the ref is pretty embarrassing.
.....and I don't recall an AB debut half as eagerly anticipated as Akira Ioanes. Ever. His fern legend is the stuff Charlie Ngatai could only dream about.
Test debut (to be all pedant), it wouldn't be half as anticipated if Hansen had just thrown him a bone in the early season matches or against Japan.
If ref wasn't complaining to the ref we'd likely be complaining too - Barnes actually put both Read and Best in their place ... which was quite funny.
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@mn5 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Reads whinging to the ref is pretty embarrassing.
.....and I don't recall an AB debut half as eagerly anticipated as Akira Ioanes. Ever. His fern legend is the stuff Charlie Ngatai could only dream about.
Test debut (to be all pedant), it wouldn't be half as anticipated if Hansen had just thrown him a bone in the early season matches or against Japan.
If ref wasn't complaining to the ref we'd likely be complaining too - Barnes actually put both Read and Best in their place ... which was quite funny.
@nepia said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Barnes actually put both Read and Best in their place ... which was quite funny.
That is one of the problems with Barnes. He is an arrogant, know all.
Yes, refs need to control, but they need to listen too.
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@mn5 said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
Reads whinging to the ref is pretty embarrassing.
.....and I don't recall an AB debut half as eagerly anticipated as Akira Ioanes. Ever. His fern legend is the stuff Charlie Ngatai could only dream about.
Test debut (to be all pedant), it wouldn't be half as anticipated if Hansen had just thrown him a bone in the early season matches or against Japan.
If ref wasn't complaining to the ref we'd likely be complaining too - Barnes actually put both Read and Best in their place ... which was quite funny.
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@nepia yep, gotta be in the eR of the ref or people will moan he isn't talking to the ref enough.
Yea I'm not a fan of Barnes style, but he was pretty consistent today.
@taniwharugby said in Ireland Vs All Blacks:
@nepia yep, gotta be in the eR of the ref or people will moan he isn't talking to the ref enough.
Yea I'm not a fan of Barnes style, but he was pretty consistent today.
In typical Barnes fashion there were a few 'flat' passes missed - yet a perfectly fine pass was pulled up.
