AB squad for the Rugby Championship
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@taniwharugby said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Chris-B they should start Cane (6) Ardie (8) Todd (7)
A 800 kg scrum. Ardie needs to start at 7. He is not an 8 in the traditional sense but I guess that’s out the window. While we are at it with forwards playing 3 positions we could have a 7 playing 2.
@broughie said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
A 800 kg scrum. Ardie needs to start at 7. He is not an 8 in the traditional sense but I guess that’s out the window. While we are at it with forwards playing 3 positions we could have a 7 playing 2.
our scrum was about 915kg the other night, which was about 20kg heavier than the bok one, dont think it'd be a big deal if I was being serious...but we have been told we wont see Cane/Ardie at 6/7, and I'm kinda thinking the coaches simply dont see Cane as an option at 6, despite him playing closer to that role than any of the others they have tried the past year or so.
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There better be a fucking plan here, because from my cheap seat, it looks like we have a complete muddle in the back row.
We have three 7s in the team, which is too many given we only picked 6 players. However almost understandable given our two best 7s you could argue could also be our best 6 and 8. Our starting 8 is a faded force. One option at 6 is a proven failure. The other dude is a promising but super green rookie. And we have zero continuity to build any combination.
In my eyes the only way this makes sense is if Read is playing 6. In which case the point of Fifita is?
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
In my eyes the only way this makes sense is if Read is playing 6. In which case the point of Fifita is?To give hope to Akira Ioane.
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@Darren said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
I'd start Jacobson.
I'm sure he won't let anyone down, lets give him a chance.At seven, sure. Not big enough for six.
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@Darren said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
I'd start Jacobson.
I'm sure he won't let anyone down, lets give him a chance.At seven, sure. Not big enough for six.
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Darren said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
I'd start Jacobson.
I'm sure he won't let anyone down, lets give him a chance.At seven, sure. Not big enough for six.
I don't want to turn this into a weird Ardie-height spin off thing but he's the same measurements as Messam.
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It's fascinating to witness a TSF meltdown over a squad selection. :smiling_face_with_open_mouth:
@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's fascinating to witness a TSF meltdown over a squad selection. :smiling_face_with_open_mouth:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
We have been spoiled with the likes of Carter, McCaw, Kaino, Nonu, etc over the years that when we have to put up with Franks, Todd, Fifita, a broken Read, and only one good winger it's bizzare.
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@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Darren said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
I'd start Jacobson.
I'm sure he won't let anyone down, lets give him a chance.At seven, sure. Not big enough for six.
I don't want to turn this into a weird Ardie-height spin off thing but he's the same measurements as Messam.
@KiwiMurph said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Darren said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
I'd start Jacobson.
I'm sure he won't let anyone down, lets give him a chance.At seven, sure. Not big enough for six.
I don't want to turn this into a weird Ardie-height spin off thing but he's the same measurements as Messam.
And Jerry Collins.
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Ardie might be similar on paper to Jerry & Liam but he isn't in person. Ardie is a bit of freak ball in hand and his ability to make yards through defenders belies his size. But offensive tackling is still a real let down where his impact when talking truely does match his size. His clearing out has got a lot better but is still behind Cane and Todd.
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Fifita is still in the squad? I don't understand modern rugby anymore.
@antipodean said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
Fifita is still in the squad? I don't understand modern rugby anymore.
Fifita's special role in the squad is to guard the powder and to make sure it stays dry.
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Ardie might be similar on paper to Jerry & Liam but he isn't in person. Ardie is a bit of freak ball in hand and his ability to make yards through defenders belies his size. But offensive tackling is still a real let down where his impact when talking truely does match his size. His clearing out has got a lot better but is still behind Cane and Todd.
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@Kirwan it's the 10 situation leading up to 2011 all over again. They tried everyone, and no one stepped up. But at least that was just finding the back up.
This is trying to find a starting fucking blindside. And we don't even need them to live up to the last guy (one of our best ever) just be obviously to standard. And in 4 years, no one has done that. And so, 2 games out from a world cup, no one knows who is the starter (actually i assume the coaches do, because the alternative is insane).
Objectively, we have a set of pretty good props; two excellent hookers; two excellent locks and not a lot behind; two excellent opensides; nothing at 6; and an 8 who everyone is hoping is just priming himself for 4 more big tests.
That is, well, not ideal.
@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
it's the 10 situation leading up to 2011 all over again. They tried everyone, and no one stepped up.
Pretty apt comparison. In both cases we had the Help Wanted sign out the front of the shop for a fair while for that position both cases the selectors were dealt a bit of a dud hand through injuries and age curves which was compounded by a scattergun selection process that should have been far more methodical.
Irregardless I'm not sure there is an obvious solution that was missed in either case, so I'll hardly be calling for their head over the loose trio...
now the lack of a midfield after four years... that is a different story.
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@Stargazer said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's fascinating to witness a TSF meltdown over a squad selection. :smiling_face_with_open_mouth:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
We have been spoiled with the likes of Carter, McCaw, Kaino, Nonu, etc over the years that when we have to put up with Franks, Todd, Fifita, a broken Read, and only one good winger it's bizzare.
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
It would be fun if we trying to chose between good options - but we aren't - unless we go for some promising young blood and hope that they step up. Continuing to use failed ones isn't great though. Probably left it too late to try others now, the selections have just looked stubborn over the last 2 years.
I really hope that I am wrong. Experience has been big at world cups so you never know...
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@mariner4life said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
it's the 10 situation leading up to 2011 all over again. They tried everyone, and no one stepped up.
Pretty apt comparison. In both cases we had the Help Wanted sign out the front of the shop for a fair while for that position both cases the selectors were dealt a bit of a dud hand through injuries and age curves which was compounded by a scattergun selection process that should have been far more methodical.
Irregardless I'm not sure there is an obvious solution that was missed in either case, so I'll hardly be calling for their head over the loose trio...
now the lack of a midfield after four years... that is a different story.
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@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
It would be fun if we trying to chose between good options - but we aren't - unless we go for some promising young blood and hope that they step up. Continuing to use failed ones isn't great though. Probably left it too late to try others now, the selections have just looked stubborn over the last 2 years.
I really hope that I am wrong. Experience has been big at world cups so you never know...
@Snowy said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@Kirwan said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It's been a while, probably the most criticism since 2004.
It would be fun if we trying to chose between good options - but we aren't - unless we go for some promising young blood and hope that they step up. Continuing to use failed ones isn't great though. Probably left it too late to try others now, the selections have just looked stubborn over the last 2 years.
I really hope that I am wrong. Experience has been big at world cups so you never know...
Yep, they are stubborn to a fault. Franks and Read are good examples of that, and SBW.
People put up with that when you win everything, but a Lions drawn series, two losses to Ireland, and a smattering of really average performances have us reversing into the World Cup.
In a way it means I can enjoy it a but more, as I have no expectations we are going to win. A team chock full of AB legends only barely pulled it off the last few times.
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@rotated said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
now the lack of a midfield after four years... that is a different story.
They've had a midfield, it's just always broken.....
@Machpants said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
@rotated said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
now the lack of a midfield after four years... that is a different story.
They've had a midfield, it's just always broken.....
A fetish for SBW/Crotty is not an excuse for not building a stable combo around those fit, international quality players who have been there for the past few years.
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Hookers: Dane Coles, Liam Coltman and Codie Taylor
Props: Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Joe Moody, Atu Moli, Angus Ta'avao and Ofa Tuungafasi
Locks: Scott Barrett, Jackson Hemopo, Patrick Tuipulotu and Samuel Whitelock
Loose forwards: Sam Cane, Vaea Fifita, Luke Jacobson, Kieran Read, Ardie Savea and Matt Todd
Halfbacks: TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith and Brad Weber
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett and Richie Mo'unga
Midfielders: Jack Goodhue, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown and Sonny Bill Williams
Utility backs: Braydon Ennor and Jordie Barrett
Outside backs: George Bridge, Rieko Ioane, Sevu Reece and Ben Smith
- Retallick certain, Crotty highly likely, Squire who knows, Perry doubt it
So I'd say there are 5 names to omit.
Hookers we have our RWC selection there. They HAVE to give Coltman another appearance IMO to show he can actually throw.
Props - Franks, Moody and Tuungafasi are certainties, after that I have no idea who will be unlucky, maybe Laulala
Locks - Not even sure if they take 4, probably depends if Retallick is fit from game 1. I thought they told us Hemopo wasn't a lock? I reckon Tuipolotou is most likely to miss out: only plays lock, and was pants in the first game
Loose forwards - I'd say Fafita an obvious choice to be omitted, which means he's no doubt nailed down as starting 6. If they are not going to move Read or Cane to 6, nor start Barrett, then I hope Jacobson and not Fafita gets Bledisloe 1.
Halfbacks - we have our RWC selection there
First-fives - ditto. They will take two, and probably TJP as emergency cover while waiting for Ioane to fly out if injury strikes (minimum 48 hrs in squad before allowed to take field)
Midfield - It's probably Laumape vs SBW or Crotty to be dropped. When was the last time the ABs played the same midfield 2 tests in a row?
Outside backs - Hopefully they give Ennor some more time, but I'm really uncertain to their thinking, other than that Ben Smith and you would think Reiko are certainties.
I can't remember such uncertainty around squad selection since maybe Laurie Mains took over from Griz and you weren't sure what his first selection would bring.
It will be a thing of genius if Hansen pulls this off.
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Hookers: Dane Coles, Liam Coltman and Codie Taylor
Props: Owen Franks, Nepo Laulala, Joe Moody, Atu Moli, Angus Ta'avao and Ofa Tuungafasi
Locks: Scott Barrett, Jackson Hemopo, Patrick Tuipulotu and Samuel Whitelock
Loose forwards: Sam Cane, Vaea Fifita, Luke Jacobson, Kieran Read, Ardie Savea and Matt Todd
Halfbacks: TJ Perenara, Aaron Smith and Brad Weber
First five-eighths: Beauden Barrett and Richie Mo'unga
Midfielders: Jack Goodhue, Ngani Laumape, Anton Lienert-Brown and Sonny Bill Williams
Utility backs: Braydon Ennor and Jordie Barrett
Outside backs: George Bridge, Rieko Ioane, Sevu Reece and Ben Smith
- Retallick certain, Crotty highly likely, Squire who knows, Perry doubt it
So I'd say there are 5 names to omit.
Hookers we have our RWC selection there. They HAVE to give Coltman another appearance IMO to show he can actually throw.
Props - Franks, Moody and Tuungafasi are certainties, after that I have no idea who will be unlucky, maybe Laulala
Locks - Not even sure if they take 4, probably depends if Retallick is fit from game 1. I thought they told us Hemopo wasn't a lock? I reckon Tuipolotou is most likely to miss out: only plays lock, and was pants in the first game
Loose forwards - I'd say Fafita an obvious choice to be omitted, which means he's no doubt nailed down as starting 6. If they are not going to move Read or Cane to 6, nor start Barrett, then I hope Jacobson and not Fafita gets Bledisloe 1.
Halfbacks - we have our RWC selection there
First-fives - ditto. They will take two, and probably TJP as emergency cover while waiting for Ioane to fly out if injury strikes (minimum 48 hrs in squad before allowed to take field)
Midfield - It's probably Laumape vs SBW or Crotty to be dropped. When was the last time the ABs played the same midfield 2 tests in a row?
Outside backs - Hopefully they give Ennor some more time, but I'm really uncertain to their thinking, other than that Ben Smith and you would think Reiko are certainties.
I can't remember such uncertainty around squad selection since maybe Laurie Mains took over from Griz and you weren't sure what his first selection would bring.
It will be a thing of genius if Hansen pulls this off.
@Billy-Tell said in AB squad for the Rugby Championship:
It will be a thing of genius if Hansen pulls this off.
Even if he does, there's been an awful lot of Shawshank before the Redemption
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If you fancy some loss insurance, Betfair has NZ at $2.40 favourites to win. Then England, SA, Wales, Ireland in the $7-10 range.
Just saying - a lazy 500 returns you a couple of hundy to drown your sorrows if we (as expected) shit our pants in public
