'Super Rugby' 2021
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
how about if a defending team carries it back?
5m attacking scrum
@Kiap which seems even stupid...er, if theyre not getting rid of those attacking scrums all together or something
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I look at it as 'who should get the award, and how much ...'
A defender forced to carry back and ground in their own in-goal ... well, I'm not gonna say they stuffed up, but they've certainly conceded. It's like tapping out in martial arts; you've lost the contest.
It's a no-brainer that this is a 5m attacking scrum.
The contest loser doesn't get the reward. It would be wrong to allow a drop-out in that instance because it would benefit the loser by advancing play 20-30 metres upfield.
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I look at it as 'who should get the award, and how much ...'
A defender forced to carry back and ground in their own in-goal ... well, I'm not gonna say they stuffed up, but they've certainly conceded. It's like tapping out in martial arts; you've lost the contest.
It's a no-brainer that this is a 5m attacking scrum.
The contest loser doesn't get the reward. It would be wrong to allow a drop-out in that instance because it would benefit the loser by advancing play 20-30 metres upfield.
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@Kiap agreed, but is just managing to get a hand under the ball worth the reward of being able to boot it back downfield?
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiap agreed, but is just managing to get a hand under the ball worth the reward of being able to boot it back downfield?
In that case, the ball carrier has lost the contest by the ball being held up.
Why should that player's team be rewarded with repeat attempts 5m out?
They stuffed up the try. There's no excuse for it from a rolling maul or scrum. That team can run it again starting 25-30m out.
Even worse is the ten x 1 metre pick and goes.
If the defence forces a 'held up' they earn that restart moving upfield.
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The two big changes I'm interested in watching are rewarding teams for good kicks (22 - 50) which should help keep wingers slightly back.
And maintaining some semblance of a contest despite losing a player to card lottery.
FWIW I'm also coming around to @Kiap's argument.
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiap agreed, but is just managing to get a hand under the ball worth the reward of being able to boot it back downfield?
In that case, the ball carrier has lost the contest by the ball being held up.
Why should that player's team be rewarded with repeat attempts 5m out?
They stuffed up the try. There's no excuse for it from a rolling maul or scrum. That team can run it again starting 25-30m out.
Even worse is the ten x 1 metre pick and goes.
If the defence forces a 'held up' they earn that restart moving upfield.
@Kiap I think both situations could be viewed from both sides, rather than a defending team stuffing up but taking it back you could say the attacking team pressured them into it
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
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@Kiap I think both situations could be viewed from both sides, rather than a defending team stuffing up but taking it back you could say the attacking team pressured them into it
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
Ahem. The attacking team still gets the ball back.
Plus effectively still in the attacking red zone, too ... or near as dammit ... so we're not getting too carried away with being "punished".
What I said at the top was it being a question of (a) who is awarded and (b) how much :
In this case the attack does get possession back, the thing is, should it be 5m out or around 25m out?
I just question why the attack should be entitled to repeated free shots 5m out when they fail to ground the ball.
They've flunked their attempt, the defence forced the hold up so they've earned their breathing space.
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I'm cool with anything that cuts down the number of pick and goes on the goal line, and the repeatedly set 5m scrums trying to get penalties and cards.
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@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
Ahem. The attacking team still gets the ball back.
Plus effectively still in the attacking red zone, too ... or near as dammit ... so we're not getting too carried away with being "punished".
What I said at the top was it being a question of (a) who is awarded and (b) how much :
In this case the attack does get possession back, the thing is, should it be 5m out or around 25m out?
I just question why the attack should be entitled to repeated free shots 5m out when they fail to ground the ball.
They've flunked their attempt, the defence forced the hold up so they've earned their breathing space.
@Kiap said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
Ahem. The attacking team still gets the ball back.
Plus effectively still in the attacking red zone, too ... or near as dammit ... so we're not getting too carried away with being "punished".
What I said at the top was it being a question of (a) who is awarded and (b) how much :
In this case the attack does get possession back, the thing is, should it be 5m out or around 25m out?
I just question why the attack should be entitled to repeated free shots 5m out when they fail to ground the ball.
They've flunked their attempt, the defence forced the hold up so they've earned their breathing space.
I would counter that by saying the attacking team has never lost the ball in a held up situation and the defending team is allowed extra leeway to not release the player or roll away once it is over the line.
IMO having the ball kicked back to the half way mark is too much of a punishment, for lack of a better word, for being held up over the line. The same “punishment” that is given when the attacker knocks on. -
The two big changes I'm interested in watching are rewarding teams for good kicks (22 - 50) which should help keep wingers slightly back.
And maintaining some semblance of a contest despite losing a player to card lottery.
FWIW I'm also coming around to @Kiap's argument.
@antipodean said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
The two big changes I'm interested in watching are rewarding teams for good kicks (22 - 50) which should help keep wingers slightly back.
And maintaining some semblance of a contest despite losing a player to card lottery.
FWIW I'm also coming around to @Kiap's argument.
I don’t think the 22-50 thing is in the NZ comp.
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@Kiap said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@Kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
so we're deeming the team in possession to be the team to be punished? it guess that make some sense and aligns with how the rules are going
Ahem. The attacking team still gets the ball back.
Plus effectively still in the attacking red zone, too ... or near as dammit ... so we're not getting too carried away with being "punished".
What I said at the top was it being a question of (a) who is awarded and (b) how much :
In this case the attack does get possession back, the thing is, should it be 5m out or around 25m out?
I just question why the attack should be entitled to repeated free shots 5m out when they fail to ground the ball.
They've flunked their attempt, the defence forced the hold up so they've earned their breathing space.
I would counter that by saying the attacking team has never lost the ball in a held up situation and the defending team is allowed extra leeway to not release the player or roll away once it is over the line.
IMO having the ball kicked back to the half way mark is too much of a punishment, for lack of a better word, for being held up over the line. The same “punishment” that is given when the attacker knocks on.@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
I would counter that by saying the attacking team has never lost the ball in a held up situation
True.
It's still a failed score and no longer in the field of play.
@pukunui said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
and the defending team is allowed extra leeway to not release the player or roll away once it is over the line.
IMO having the ball kicked back to the half way mark is too much of a punishment, for lack of a better word, for being held up over the line. The same “punishment” that is given when the attacker knocks on.
Would be rare for the ball not to be run back well into the half, and to even be in a scoring position in short order.
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@KiwiMurph use it or lose it not in SRA? It's already in the laws!
@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph use it or lose it not in SRA? It's already in the laws!
My understanding is
Super Rugby Aotearoa = you have 5 seconds to use it after ref yells use it
Super Rugby Aus = you have to use it immediately after ref yells use it.
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@Machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@KiwiMurph use it or lose it not in SRA? It's already in the laws!
My understanding is
Super Rugby Aotearoa = you have 5 seconds to use it after ref yells use it
Super Rugby Aus = you have to use it immediately after ref yells use it.
@KiwiMurph ok, still going to have to give them a second or two to react to your call. Really refs just need too call use it was soon as it is available, they only call after the 9 had airway wasted ages getting his Human centipede set up
