'Super Rugby' 2021
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If anyone thinks it is a problem that NZ players only get to play one style of rugby (I'm not so sure it's a problem), then you can also appoint a NH coach at each franchise as assistant-coach, like the Crusaders have done with Ronan O'Gara and Mark Jones. Or lure NZ coaches back from the NH.
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@rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Imagine picking a team with all 23 players probably sprinkled around the top 4 teams in 4 or 5 different leagues. With experience of winning tournaments and knockout games. No chokers likely to slip into that team.
Instead we will be picking the Crusaders plus x number of hangers on, playing one trick pony SR style with zero posession.
Except oputside RWC you do not get good access to those players. And without good players in NZ, with the carrot of an AB shirt, NZ rugby goes down the drain fast. It would be an every decreasing circle especially with our worrying reduction in playing numbers. IMO it would be a disaster, the only thing keeping NZ rugby in it's place is the black jersey only being available in NZ.
@machpants said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@rapido said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
Imagine picking a team with all 23 players probably sprinkled around the top 4 teams in 4 or 5 different leagues. With experience of winning tournaments and knockout games. No chokers likely to slip into that team.
Instead we will be picking the Crusaders plus x number of hangers on, playing one trick pony SR style with zero posession.
Except oputside RWC you do not get good access to those players. And without good players in NZ, with the carrot of an AB shirt, NZ rugby goes down the drain fast. It would be an every decreasing circle especially with our worrying reduction in playing numbers. IMO it would be a disaster, the only thing keeping NZ rugby in it's place is the black jersey only being available in NZ.
Yeah. I grew up 80s kid. My formative opinions of European based professionals and nz national teams is that it's a bit crap - is that you don't get them playing except for the very biggest occasions. I'm thinking Wynton Rufer, Kevin Iro, Dean Bell, Hugh McGahan etc.
But I dont think that would have been the South African experience if they weren't isolated. They're half a word closer.
But anyway. Things change.
NZ and Australia are close enough that the temptation to keep a form of SR going is tempting enough. It may work, it may just delay things a decade , I dont know. Surviving beyond a decade will depend on whether they get Japan in the tent with a Champions Cup.
But, South Africa never really had this temptation. Having the crazy moon shot of Pro18 removed from them by Pro14 will be a blessing for them. They can adjust to reality, no kicking the can down the road for them. It will make the Boks stronger. But can the Boks play 9 games in SH winter at full strength? No. Will the TRC continue as 6 match home and away if Saf in that boat? Maybe not.
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There's lots of unknowns. Cant predict with much certainty.
But can definitely predict with certainty they'd be nothing like the islands. They are still a large country, 4th biggest 'rugby economy', who play in an annual international competition that makes good money. The Island's problem is it isnt worth any player's time to travel back in june/July.
Free of attemoting to prop up 6 teams at pay rates to match Euro and Japan levels, they could afford huge match fees. And (apart from Japan based players) the travel is quite short. No way woul players return to Europe in bye weeks if the match fees are good enough. Agents and the market will sort that out.
But. All speculation. I wouldn't know what sort of domestic comp they would set up and how much money that may suck out of the cash generating pot of test rugby.
Either way. Its 200% more attractive than the abomination of whatever the Pro14 was trying to be.
Is it as good as 1996 to 2006 Sanzar? No.
But better than Pro18 and probably better than what SR had become.
@rapido I agree. More so I believe rugby needs a premier league. whether that be Japan or France or England or America. NFL EPL NRL NBA all great domestic that have most of the worlds talent. Rugby just seems like its been dying a slow death the last 10 years.
NZ needed aussie to win the sports battle in Australia. They could hardly have done worse and now there no chance of a world class domestic league that can make genuine money here. Instead we have this all Blacks funded socialist model where the only way rugby makes money is through one team and the domestic comps are worse because of it.
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@rapido I agree. More so I believe rugby needs a premier league. whether that be Japan or France or England or America. NFL EPL NRL NBA all great domestic that have most of the worlds talent. Rugby just seems like its been dying a slow death the last 10 years.
NZ needed aussie to win the sports battle in Australia. They could hardly have done worse and now there no chance of a world class domestic league that can make genuine money here. Instead we have this all Blacks funded socialist model where the only way rugby makes money is through one team and the domestic comps are worse because of it.
@muddyriver
Disagree with this logic. Firstly, looking at the leagues you mentioned NFL: one country plays the sport. EPL: not really the number one league if you look at champions league success. Makes the most money and has most viewers but doesn't have the best players in the world. NRL: RL is only really a dominant sport in Aus (half the country anyway). NBA: Probably the only example that works.A premier rugby comp based outside of this timezone would make everyone into NRL fans and kill rugby union in this country. Because ultimately we want to watch live sport at a reasonable time and occasionally in person.
I'd advocate for a Rugby global champions league but more for the monetary aspect than anything else.
SA 2019 was mostly domestic players with a few overseas players sprinkled in. Otherwise all RWC winners have been playing domestically (correct me if I'm wrong). Remains to be seen if a completely disjointed team can win or even be dominant. Certainly the English, French and Irish players all play in their own country.
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@mofitzy_ like football and basketball are dead in this country?
There would still be a high level comp here it just wouldn't have most all blacks. Just like the NBL or football.
I think NRL has most of the young viewership already hence my point. But I think that is for a multitude of reasons and failures from the nzru and nz sportsmedia. But mostly aus rugby.
There are stats pointing how old the average rigby viewer is and they are pretty dire from memory.
Every kid or 20 something I know is talking NBA.
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@muddyriver
Disagree with this logic. Firstly, looking at the leagues you mentioned NFL: one country plays the sport. EPL: not really the number one league if you look at champions league success. Makes the most money and has most viewers but doesn't have the best players in the world. NRL: RL is only really a dominant sport in Aus (half the country anyway). NBA: Probably the only example that works.A premier rugby comp based outside of this timezone would make everyone into NRL fans and kill rugby union in this country. Because ultimately we want to watch live sport at a reasonable time and occasionally in person.
I'd advocate for a Rugby global champions league but more for the monetary aspect than anything else.
SA 2019 was mostly domestic players with a few overseas players sprinkled in. Otherwise all RWC winners have been playing domestically (correct me if I'm wrong). Remains to be seen if a completely disjointed team can win or even be dominant. Certainly the English, French and Irish players all play in their own country.
@mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@muddyriver
EPL: not really the number one league if you look at champions league success.why would you use the success of teams in a different competition as the gauge for how successful the EPL is?
i think we need to come up with something that is a successful business model, that might mean not having the best players. having a successful business at least means you have the changes of having the best players, concentrating purely on the best players is what we've been doing up and till now and has how we've got into a non sustainable situation
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@sparky said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
What's happening with these cross- Ta$man games? How many? When? Where?
The draw was released a while back so should stay the same. Just some haggling over who gets the extra home game now that the super round has been canned.
https://super.rugby/superrugby/news/2021-super-rugby-trans-tasman-schedule-finalised/
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The only change is that the so-called Super Round will no longer be played in one location and that the venues of round 3 still have to be announced.
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@stargazer please let us play in Melbourne!
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@mofitzy_ like football and basketball are dead in this country?
There would still be a high level comp here it just wouldn't have most all blacks. Just like the NBL or football.
I think NRL has most of the young viewership already hence my point. But I think that is for a multitude of reasons and failures from the nzru and nz sportsmedia. But mostly aus rugby.
There are stats pointing how old the average rigby viewer is and they are pretty dire from memory.
Every kid or 20 something I know is talking NBA.
@muddyriver
Football and basketball are dead as far as domestic leagues go. You are advocating for a situation the average fan won't watch live sport because it'll be played in a European time zone. Because let's be honest, your hypothetical "premier league" will be in Europe not the US or Japan.@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@mofitzy_ said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@muddyriver
EPL: not really the number one league if you look at champions league success.why would you use the success of teams in a different competition as the gauge for how successful the EPL is?
Point being the premier league doesn't have the very best players or very best clubs. The popularity is down to history, parity and good marketing. You can't make people see a rugby union competition in the same way, it would take years. And even then, the premier league is only number one, not a monopoly like some seem to be suggesting.
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@stargazer please let us play in Melbourne!
@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@stargazer please let us play in Melbourne!
Last time that happened Highlanders lost.
Although that also applies for the last time Highlanders played Rebels in Dunedin.
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@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@stargazer please let us play in Melbourne!
Last time that happened Highlanders lost.
Although that also applies for the last time Highlanders played Rebels in Dunedin.
@kiwimurph said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@stargazer please let us play in Melbourne!
Last time that happened Highlanders lost.
Although that also applies for the last time Highlanders played Rebels in Dunedin.
I was there, dragged all my Aussie workmates, gatlands first game for us I think and he had a shocker, will or loose it would be good to see them live
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@kiwimurph said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@stargazer please let us play in Melbourne!
Last time that happened Highlanders lost.
Although that also applies for the last time Highlanders played Rebels in Dunedin.
I was there, dragged all my Aussie workmates, gatlands first game for us I think and he had a shocker, will or loose it would be good to see them live
@kiwiwomble isn't there a bubble opening up?
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@sparky said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
What's happening with these cross- Ta$man games? How many? When? Where?
The draw was released a while back so should stay the same. Just some haggling over who gets the extra home game now that the super round has been canned.
https://super.rugby/superrugby/news/2021-super-rugby-trans-tasman-schedule-finalised/
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But Lendrum confirmed the proposed “super round” to be staged at a single city over one weekend had fallen into the too-hard basket. The five fixtures scheduled for that window will now be played at venues to be negotiated as part of revenue-sharing commercial arrangements between the teams concerned. “That’s one thing we’ve run out of runway to do this year,” said Lendrum of the so-called super round. “With the uncertainty building into it, it was just too hard to contemplate basing ourselves all in one city. It’s certainly a concept we want to explore in the future when conditions around our competition are a little more settled. “We’re just working on venues for round 3 fixtures now and will announce those in due course.” However Lendrum confirmed they would take place around what would essentially be revenue-sharing arrangements. “We’re going to have a scenario where some teams now have three home games and some teams have two, but we’re encouraging the clubs who are due to play each other that weekend to have a commercial discussion about how the proceeds of the game are shared. We’re trying to get some evenness through the competition.” -
@bones already going back in a couple of weeks and have knee surgery coming up...not made of money or leave
@kiwiwomble said in 'Super Rugby' 2021:
@bones already going back in a couple of weeks and have knee surgery coming up...not made of money or leave
Pfftt it's probably half a days wage for a flight for you...
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I have been looking at the table and the last 3 weeks draw to see if my cracked crystal ball is any use.
Way too many permutations and possibilities as anyone can beat anyone at the moment.
A couple of observations though.I think that Blues probably need to win 2/3 to be safe and will easily be if those two are Highlanders and Chiefs. They are probably safe if they just win their last game against the Chiefs as long as the Chiefs don't beat the Saders.
Highlanders and Canes very unlikely due to still having bye weekends. So really a three horse race.Could be that the Chiefs/ Blues game in the last round acts as a semi-final which would be good.
