European Club Rugby
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Been the elephant in the room since the start of professionalism
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@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
So Wasps and Worcester looking very, very shaky. Seems like the typical Premiership business model of having a sugar daddy funding a loss making club isn't that sound. Who'd have thought?
Interested in your thoughts on how this leaves English rugby. Will this impact the RFU/Big Clubs power balance? Good thing or bad thing long-term?
I wish I knew mate. The current situation is clearly unsustainable but what is the alternative? Exeter are the only Premiership club that regularly turns a profit and then only just. They have a very good conferencing set of facilities to assist in the finances but by the cringe it is a fucking expensive day out on match day. A good seat in the West Stand is up to £90! Add in the most expensive beer and pasties and it all mounts up to a painful experience.
It seems to me that there is not enough money in the domestic game to sustain the standards that fans have come to expect. Of course we have the cash cow that is the National side but that is not enough to spread around. More tv money might help I guess. One thing is for sure, we’re going to run out of sugar daddies sometime.
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So Wasps and Worcester looking very, very shaky. Seems like the typical Premiership business model of having a sugar daddy funding a loss making club isn't that sound. Who'd have thought?
@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
So Wasps and Worcester looking very, very shaky. Seems like the typical Premiership business model of having a sugar daddy funding a loss making club isn't that sound. Who'd have thought?
It's the same through Europe isn't it? The football model without the massive marketing/TV/merch opportunities.
Our more commie model isn't perfect but it seems a bit more sustainable in that matching spending to income is the driver and more controlled.
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@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
So Wasps and Worcester looking very, very shaky. Seems like the typical Premiership business model of having a sugar daddy funding a loss making club isn't that sound. Who'd have thought?
It's the same through Europe isn't it? The football model without the massive marketing/TV/merch opportunities.
Our more commie model isn't perfect but it seems a bit more sustainable in that matching spending to income is the driver and more controlled.
France looks pretty much the same to me, though can’t say much about Italy.
The NZ model definitely seems much more sustainable but that’s dependent I guess on how long the money train runs up here.
I’m pretty conflicted as I’m pleased with our more sustained competitiveness internationally, if not always our style of play. On the other hand there is the degree of attrition on the players and the money related mess.
I wish I knew how it will pan out.
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France looks pretty much the same to me, though can’t say much about Italy.
The NZ model definitely seems much more sustainable but that’s dependent I guess on how long the money train runs up here.
I’m pretty conflicted as I’m pleased with our more sustained competitiveness internationally, if not always our style of play. On the other hand there is the degree of attrition on the players and the money related mess.
I wish I knew how it will pan out.
@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
France looks pretty much the same to me, though can’t say much about Italy.
The NZ model definitely seems much more sustainable but that’s dependent I guess on how long the money train runs up here.
I’m pretty conflicted as I’m pleased with our more sustained competitiveness internationally, if not always our style of play. On the other hand there is the degree of attrition on the players and the money related mess.
I wish I knew how it will pan out.
Really? I thought France were better off with a huge TV deal, and stadiums they don't pay for. And two fully Pro leagues, unlike the appalling situation in the championship in England? But I don't really keep on top of French rugby, apart from watching Heineken cup
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@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
France looks pretty much the same to me, though can’t say much about Italy.
The NZ model definitely seems much more sustainable but that’s dependent I guess on how long the money train runs up here.
I’m pretty conflicted as I’m pleased with our more sustained competitiveness internationally, if not always our style of play. On the other hand there is the degree of attrition on the players and the money related mess.
I wish I knew how it will pan out.
Really? I thought France were better off with a huge TV deal, and stadiums they don't pay for. And two fully Pro leagues, unlike the appalling situation in the championship in England? But I don't really keep on top of French rugby, apart from watching Heineken cup
I think there’s much in what you say but there is also a certain level of dependency on rich owners, with Toulon being the stand out example albeit not to the previous level.
At least that’s my understanding.
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@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
France looks pretty much the same to me, though can’t say much about Italy.
The NZ model definitely seems much more sustainable but that’s dependent I guess on how long the money train runs up here.
I’m pretty conflicted as I’m pleased with our more sustained competitiveness internationally, if not always our style of play. On the other hand there is the degree of attrition on the players and the money related mess.
I wish I knew how it will pan out.
Really? I thought France were better off with a huge TV deal, and stadiums they don't pay for. And two fully Pro leagues, unlike the appalling situation in the championship in England? But I don't really keep on top of French rugby, apart from watching Heineken cup
@Machpants said in NH club rugby:
@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
France looks pretty much the same to me, though can’t say much about Italy.
The NZ model definitely seems much more sustainable but that’s dependent I guess on how long the money train runs up here.
I’m pretty conflicted as I’m pleased with our more sustained competitiveness internationally, if not always our style of play. On the other hand there is the degree of attrition on the players and the money related mess.
I wish I knew how it will pan out.
Really? I thought France were better off with a huge TV deal, and stadiums they don't pay for. And two fully Pro leagues, unlike the appalling situation in the championship in England? But I don't really keep on top of French rugby, apart from watching Heineken cup
The LNR tv deal is currently worth triple Premiership rugby deal.
LNR distributes to 30 clubs though, prem to 13. But no private equity skimming 17.5% off central funding in LNR.
Fellow prem club owners probably secretly happy for Worcester to fold, and get to an even 12. They wouldn't want Wasps to go, though
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I wish I knew mate. The current situation is clearly unsustainable but what is the alternative? Exeter are the only Premiership club that regularly turns a profit and then only just. They have a very good conferencing set of facilities to assist in the finances but by the cringe it is a fucking expensive day out on match day. A good seat in the West Stand is up to £90! Add in the most expensive beer and pasties and it all mounts up to a painful experience.
It seems to me that there is not enough money in the domestic game to sustain the standards that fans have come to expect. Of course we have the cash cow that is the National side but that is not enough to spread around. More tv money might help I guess. One thing is for sure, we’re going to run out of sugar daddies sometime.
@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
I wish I knew mate. The current situation is clearly unsustainable but what is the alternative? Exeter are the only Premiership club that regularly turns a profit and then only just. They have a very good conferencing set of facilities to assist in the finances but by the cringe it is a fucking expensive day out on match day. A good seat in the West Stand is up to £90! Add in the most expensive beer and pasties and it all mounts up to a painful experience.
It seems to me that there is not enough money in the domestic game to sustain the standards that fans have come to expect. Of course we have the cash cow that is the National side but that is not enough to spread around. More tv money might help I guess. One thing is for sure, we’re going to run out of sugar daddies sometime.
My sympathy dial is at 0. I know the clubs are not the RFU (which should be ERU and not THE rfu) but nz was told to get lost many times when looking for profit-sharing. Rugby would be in a better place today if England France had centrally contracted players at the start of the pro era but put head in sand.
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@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
I wish I knew mate. The current situation is clearly unsustainable but what is the alternative? Exeter are the only Premiership club that regularly turns a profit and then only just. They have a very good conferencing set of facilities to assist in the finances but by the cringe it is a fucking expensive day out on match day. A good seat in the West Stand is up to £90! Add in the most expensive beer and pasties and it all mounts up to a painful experience.
It seems to me that there is not enough money in the domestic game to sustain the standards that fans have come to expect. Of course we have the cash cow that is the National side but that is not enough to spread around. More tv money might help I guess. One thing is for sure, we’re going to run out of sugar daddies sometime.
My sympathy dial is at 0. I know the clubs are not the RFU (which should be ERU and not THE rfu) but nz was told to get lost many times when looking for profit-sharing. Rugby would be in a better place today if England France had centrally contracted players at the start of the pro era but put head in sand.
@Billy-Tell said in NH club rugby:
@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
I wish I knew mate. The current situation is clearly unsustainable but what is the alternative? Exeter are the only Premiership club that regularly turns a profit and then only just. They have a very good conferencing set of facilities to assist in the finances but by the cringe it is a fucking expensive day out on match day. A good seat in the West Stand is up to £90! Add in the most expensive beer and pasties and it all mounts up to a painful experience.
It seems to me that there is not enough money in the domestic game to sustain the standards that fans have come to expect. Of course we have the cash cow that is the National side but that is not enough to spread around. More tv money might help I guess. One thing is for sure, we’re going to run out of sugar daddies sometime.
My sympathy dial is at 0. I know the clubs are not the RFU (which should be ERU and not THE rfu) but nz was told to get lost many times when looking for profit-sharing. Rugby would be in a better place today if England France had centrally contracted players at the start of the pro era but put head in sand.
I understand the sympathy dialled to zero, but I’m not looking for that. Just looking at a poor situation and pondering on the future and make no bones about it we have a world-wide issue in rugby, just that it is being manifested in different ways around the world. None of us are immune.
The current financial malaise in parts of the NH club game has fuck all to do with profit sharing - do you honestly think if England if anyone else gave money to NZ or anyone else that would improve the financial situation in the NH club game? Really?
I agree that if we’d centrally contracted players back along we’d likely be in a better place but that is an argument that was lost back in 1995. Perhaps time to move on.
Oh and it is THE RFU because when it was formed it was the only rugby union. No arrogance there.
Hope THE Rugby Championship is going well
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@Billy-Tell said in NH club rugby:
@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
I wish I knew mate. The current situation is clearly unsustainable but what is the alternative? Exeter are the only Premiership club that regularly turns a profit and then only just. They have a very good conferencing set of facilities to assist in the finances but by the cringe it is a fucking expensive day out on match day. A good seat in the West Stand is up to £90! Add in the most expensive beer and pasties and it all mounts up to a painful experience.
It seems to me that there is not enough money in the domestic game to sustain the standards that fans have come to expect. Of course we have the cash cow that is the National side but that is not enough to spread around. More tv money might help I guess. One thing is for sure, we’re going to run out of sugar daddies sometime.
My sympathy dial is at 0. I know the clubs are not the RFU (which should be ERU and not THE rfu) but nz was told to get lost many times when looking for profit-sharing. Rugby would be in a better place today if England France had centrally contracted players at the start of the pro era but put head in sand.
I understand the sympathy dialled to zero, but I’m not looking for that. Just looking at a poor situation and pondering on the future and make no bones about it we have a world-wide issue in rugby, just that it is being manifested in different ways around the world. None of us are immune.
The current financial malaise in parts of the NH club game has fuck all to do with profit sharing - do you honestly think if England if anyone else gave money to NZ or anyone else that would improve the financial situation in the NH club game? Really?
I agree that if we’d centrally contracted players back along we’d likely be in a better place but that is an argument that was lost back in 1995. Perhaps time to move on.
Oh and it is THE RFU because when it was formed it was the only rugby union. No arrogance there.
Hope THE Rugby Championship is going well
@Catogrande said in NH club rugby:
Oh and it is THE RFU because when it was formed it was the only rugby union. No arrogance there.
Hope THE Rugby Championship is going wellHaha well said. THE Royal Air Force, THE Royal Navy, and (thanks Macron) THE Queen
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The URC had round 2 this weekend. Saffer teams did well. Biggest surprise by the Lions beating Ospreys at home. Also close win for Sharks away against Zebre. Edinburgh nearly beat the Bulls at Loftus. Stormers B had to thank Aki having a blond moment and left Connacht with 14 players. A struggle from them at Danie Craven Stadium.
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The URC had round 2 this weekend. Saffer teams did well. Biggest surprise by the Lions beating Ospreys at home. Also close win for Sharks away against Zebre. Edinburgh nearly beat the Bulls at Loftus. Stormers B had to thank Aki having a blond moment and left Connacht with 14 players. A struggle from them at Danie Craven Stadium.
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Even the bean counters are talking about learnings
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Even the bean counters are talking about learnings
@Machpants said in NH club rugby:
Even the bean counters are talking about learnings
It's been corporate speak for over a decade.
(Not an endorsement by any means).
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Certainly a bit sad for all at the club etc, and hope they can get new positions etc with other clubs. I not really surprised in one way, rugby hasn't been pro for all that long (25 years), and I imagine a few more are still working out all the ins and outs of sorting out paying off set up costs etc?
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Rumours at this stage
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Rumours at this stage
@MiketheSnow said in NH club rugby:
Rumours at this stage
Can you give a precis? Where would they go?
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@MiketheSnow said in NH club rugby:
Rumours at this stage
Can you give a precis? Where would they go?
@Machpants said in NH club rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH club rugby:
Rumours at this stage
Can you give a precis? Where would they go?
English Premier League instead of Worcester and possibly Wasps
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@Machpants said in NH club rugby:
@MiketheSnow said in NH club rugby:
Rumours at this stage
Can you give a precis? Where would they go?
English Premier League instead of Worcester and possibly Wasps
@MiketheSnow this can open the door for our CC Premier league teams Cheetahs, Griquas and Pumas.
