European Club Rugby
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Running the ball is a standard part of the game and the many risks are understood and mitigated (although the current mitigations on head contact are yet to be proved effective). Although the professional game has brought in bigger players and harder impacts you can train to take those impacts.
Jumping for the ball and placing your centre of gravity above everyone else is high risk. You may not be at fault for an accident or breaking any laws but you have made a decision to increase the risk of injury to yourself.
What WR have failed to do effectively is decide how to mitigate this high risk yet legal activity. The proof is in the number of players without intent falling foul of the law when they are simply playing the game.
If you want to believe that Pisi intentionally decided to risk breaking someones neck then I won't change your mind. I just don't think that is the case.@Crucial said in NH club rugby:
If you want to believe that Pisi intentionally decided to risk breaking someones neck then I won't change your mind. I just don't think that is the case.
I don't for a second think he intentionally tried to hurt him. I think he did know he had lost the jump & took the collision to stop the oppo player galloping off down field with the ball, rather than doing everything he could to avoid the collision.
Under the new laws the emphasis is on the "losing" player to do all he can not to be in Pisi's position. And I'd argue he could have done a LOT more, but it would have handed a huge advantage to the jumper. So he didn't.
It's the same way you will often see a high shot on a player going in in the corner. The tackler has 2 options, high shot or try, so he goes high shot & pleads "it slipped up". Under the new laws thats an instant binning (at best).
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If you have to sprint to get to the contest zone then you aren't going to be able to effectively contest against an opponent who has has had time to slow down, and maximised their vertical jump.
Coaches are going to have to stress to their players that if they are in Pisi's position, then they need to be holding off for a split second, to tackle the jumper as they hit the deck. (Done correctly this is still a good turnover opportunity).
Spear tackles are red cards, and the consequences of these incidents really are at a similar level.
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If you have to sprint to get to the contest zone then you aren't going to be able to effectively contest against an opponent who has has had time to slow down, and maximised their vertical jump.
Coaches are going to have to stress to their players that if they are in Pisi's position, then they need to be holding off for a split second, to tackle the jumper as they hit the deck. (Done correctly this is still a good turnover opportunity).
Spear tackles are red cards, and the consequences of these incidents really are at a similar level.
@Frye said in NH club rugby:
If you have to sprint to get to the contest zone then you aren't going to be able to effectively contest against an opponent who has has had time to slow down, and maximised their vertical jump.
Coaches are going to have to stress to their players that if they are in Pisi's position, then they need to be holding off for a split second, to tackle the jumper as they hit the deck. (Done correctly this is still a good turnover opportunity).
Spear tackles are red cards, and the consequences of these incidents really are at a similar level.
The 'victim' was sprinting to the contest zone and had to jump from some distance out to get above Pisi. It's not like he was under the ball and did a straight up vertical jump and Pisi came through and took him out.
As for this whole victim was trying to get the ball fair and square stuff, so too was Pisi, he just didn't jump high enough and at the last moment ducked his head from the impact.
@B
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@Frye said in NH club rugby:
If you have to sprint to get to the contest zone then you aren't going to be able to effectively contest against an opponent who has has had time to slow down, and maximised their vertical jump.
Coaches are going to have to stress to their players that if they are in Pisi's position, then they need to be holding off for a split second, to tackle the jumper as they hit the deck. (Done correctly this is still a good turnover opportunity).
Spear tackles are red cards, and the consequences of these incidents really are at a similar level.
The 'victim' was sprinting to the contest zone and had to jump from some distance out to get above Pisi. It's not like he was under the ball and did a straight up vertical jump and Pisi came through and took him out.
As for this whole victim was trying to get the ball fair and square stuff, so too was Pisi, he just didn't jump high enough and at the last moment ducked his head from the impact.
@B
@Nepia said in NH club rugby:
@Frye said in NH club rugby:
If you have to sprint to get to the contest zone then you aren't going to be able to effectively contest against an opponent who has has had time to slow down, and maximised their vertical jump.
Coaches are going to have to stress to their players that if they are in Pisi's position, then they need to be holding off for a split second, to tackle the jumper as they hit the deck. (Done correctly this is still a good turnover opportunity).
Spear tackles are red cards, and the consequences of these incidents really are at a similar level.
The 'victim' was sprinting to the contest zone and had to jump from some distance out to get above Pisi. It's not like he was under the ball and did a straight up vertical jump and Pisi came through and took him out.
As for this whole victim was trying to get the ball fair and square stuff, so too was Pisi, he just didn't jump high enough and at the last moment ducked his head from the impact.
@B
@Nepia fuck off with this Pisi was trying too shit. Bollocks. He made the most pathetic jump which is merely just a show to try and pass off he's going for the ball. If Pisi can only jump 2 inches off the ground he's no right to be a professional rugby player.
I'd have to think you're new to rugby or retarded to be convinced you're not being obtuse or just whining for the sake of it. He was in no place to win that competition and it's rather obvious. He's not some awful breed of human who once he spots a rugby ball he can't move his eyes/head or use his peripheral vision to see anything other than a small oval in his vision. He even turns to brace for impact, which oddly some are citing as a reason he's not at fault.
If he arrives earlier and makes an actual attempt to compete, fairly, then fucken eh go for it. But that was awful. He was late, hardly even got off the ground if he even did and made no attempt to remove any danger apart from to himself.
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@Bones I'm actually finding you to be obtuse here and am unsure how you've come to a conclusion Pisi wasn't actually going for the ball. It's seems like you've decided that only the guy who jumps the highest can be going for the ball which is just plain bollocks.
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This is beyond a joke. The first YC is the one Charles tweeted about (my previous post)
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This is beyond a joke. The first YC is the one Charles tweeted about (my previous post)
@antipodean Incredible. The ref even said "This is not accidental". Then what is ever accidental?
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Absurd that such a tackle is illegal. I think someone mentioned Keven Mealamu in another thread; the likes of Kev or a Hika Elliott will be unstoppable from 5 metres out if those type of try-saving tackles are no longer attempted for fear of yellow card and penalty try.
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Haha rugby is dead. Roll on the AFL season
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I would actually like someone from World Rugby to come out and tell us how that #8 is supposed to make rhat tackle on s player a foot shorter than him who is diving for the line, and stay within the laws
@mariner4life said in NH club rugby:
I would actually like someone from World Rugby to come out and tell us how that #8 is supposed to make rhat tackle on s player a foot shorter than him who is diving for the line, and stay within the laws
Tackle lower? What's so hard to understand about that? Why was the only tackle he could make, one where he wrapped his arm over the shoulder?
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The shoulder that was waist high?
@antipodean if they are diving,you need to dive tackle, lead with your knee, what could go wrong?
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@mariner4life said in NH club rugby:
I would actually like someone from World Rugby to come out and tell us how that #8 is supposed to make rhat tackle on s player a foot shorter than him who is diving for the line, and stay within the laws
Tackle lower? What's so hard to understand about that? Why was the only tackle he could make, one where he wrapped his arm over the shoulder?
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@Bones what the fuck is wrong with you? Are you a paid shill?
If, and it's a big if, he could get low enough to get under the head, then i still think the HB scores.
Did you play rugby in slow motion?
@mariner4life said in NH club rugby:
@Bones what the fuck is wrong with you? Are you a paid shill?
If, and it's a big if, he could get low enough to get under the head, then i still think the HB scores.
Did you play rugby in slow motion?
What the fuck is wrong with me? I'm posting in a forum where all of a sudden some usually reasonable people have decided to whinge like the irish because you can't commit foul play in rugby and get away with it!
Since fucking when has it been ok to commit foul play if you think you've got no other option? What the fuck is wrong with people that think a high tackle is ok if the oppositions upper body is lower than usual, or it's ok if you weren't afforded time or weren't in the right spot to make a legal hit.
What next? Well I couldn't reach him with a tackle, so I foot tripped him. What's wrong with that?! It was all I could do!
What do you mean it's no try? I put the ball on the ground! I just wasn't able to place it over the tryline! Not my fault!
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And since when is "but he would have scored a try" a defence? Is it cool to tackle players chasing a kick now because they might score a try?
If you can't stop a player from scoring using a legal tackle, why does that mean it's a free for all? Surely it just means you don't attempt the tackle or risk facing the consequences.
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See, we're coming at this from 2 different angles. My experience, and the way I was taught to tackle says that's not high as the ball runner has ducked in to it. I have made hundreds of similar tackles, in open play and most especially next to the ruck. A taller player will find it very very difficult to get under a player of that height who is also ducking (and open himself up to a greater risk of a knee to the temple, a concussion, and the very thing we have tried to avoid).
Ducking his head has gained him a massive advantage, and that's a poor outcome
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That was a great example of why we are going to see endless pick and goes from smart teams until these laws iron themselves out.
It is near impossible to stop a ball carrier from making easy ground when they run like that without contacting them above the shoulder. Even if you don't make direct head contact you will only need to make some head contact to risk a card.
These laws fall under the Dangerous play section and the definition of dangerous has been stretched.Oh, and the other tackle that has now been eliminated from the game is the one from behind where you reach over the shoulder and drag the player down.
