Super Rugby Trans Tasman
-
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life whats the compromise though?
I don't know! I don't know what they both want!! i can't see why a 10 team home and away can't work, with a top 4. But then i am not in possession of all teh facts.
And, i totally get the lack of appeal in Australia for a comp that doesn't look, on current evidence, that will have any Aussie teams in the post-season.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life whats the compromise though?
I don't know! I don't know what they both want!! i can't see why a 10 team home and away can't work, with a top 4. But then i am not in possession of all teh facts.
And, i totally get the lack of appeal in Australia for a comp that doesn't look, on current evidence, that will have any Aussie teams in the post-season.
Doesn't the second part answer the first?
-
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life whats the compromise though?
I don't know! I don't know what they both want!! i can't see why a 10 team home and away can't work, with a top 4. But then i am not in possession of all teh facts.
And, i totally get the lack of appeal in Australia for a comp that doesn't look, on current evidence, that will have any Aussie teams in the post-season.
Doesn't the second part answer the first?
@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life whats the compromise though?
I don't know! I don't know what they both want!! i can't see why a 10 team home and away can't work, with a top 4. But then i am not in possession of all teh facts.
And, i totally get the lack of appeal in Australia for a comp that doesn't look, on current evidence, that will have any Aussie teams in the post-season.
Doesn't the second part answer the first?
yes, but i don't know how you get an Aussie team in without conferences. And you can't run a conference when you just play everyone home and away. So then it's 3 rounds, 2 v Domestic, 1 v Trans- Ta$man (like this year but more mixed). Conference winners to the semi along with 2 "wildcards"?
I can hear the howls of outrage from NZ fans already.
-
I have no idea why you include your second sentence, but you know the difference between being interested in games and supporting teams that play in them, don't you? Not sure if that's what you mean, but in a comp with 5 NPC teams (not including my team) playing Aussie teams, I would still want the NPC teams to win (so I'd support them in those games), but that doesn't mean I'm interested in the comp. I'm interested in a comp in which I can watch players from my NPC team play.
@stargazer i guess thats where football is always going to have a leg up in making a global game, with things like the champions league people in my experience tended to pick a team from those that made it and follow them.
When i was doing construction in london the whole site would close early on champions league final wednesday to go and watch it at the pub
SR was dying before COVID, its just too hard to make a meaningful international club comp if everyone is only interested in the local team and if people arent willing to accept thing like promotion and relegation or qualification or an acceptance there will be lots of low quality games....one of those things has to give
a big comp the includes everyone but has blowouts every other game
or a smaller comps of similar standard but not everyone gets to play in every round -
have to say the nice and simple NPC with a structure based on merit is looking very good right now
-
have to say the nice and simple NPC with a structure based on merit is looking very good right now
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
have to say the nice and simple NPC with a structure based on merit is looking very good right now
enjoy the ABs being Australia or Argentina.
-
@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life whats the compromise though?
I don't know! I don't know what they both want!! i can't see why a 10 team home and away can't work, with a top 4. But then i am not in possession of all teh facts.
And, i totally get the lack of appeal in Australia for a comp that doesn't look, on current evidence, that will have any Aussie teams in the post-season.
Doesn't the second part answer the first?
yes, but i don't know how you get an Aussie team in without conferences. And you can't run a conference when you just play everyone home and away. So then it's 3 rounds, 2 v Domestic, 1 v Trans- Ta$man (like this year but more mixed). Conference winners to the semi along with 2 "wildcards"?
I can hear the howls of outrage from NZ fans already.
@mariner4life Then you've got the other issue of Aus potentially missing out on a domestic final (compared to Super AU). With Super AU the final was a huge success for them (40k crowd - huge ratings). I can see why Rugby Au want to harness that and not lose it.
Even if you had a 'best Aus vs best Aus' final after a combined comp - it would lose it's lustre if it's for example the 4th ranked team playing the 6th ranked team (out of 10 Aus-NZ teams).
With Super AU they've got a domestic comp that leads nicely to a final with 2 guaranteed Aus teams.
-
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
have to say the nice and simple NPC with a structure based on merit is looking very good right now
enjoy the ABs being Australia or Argentina.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
have to say the nice and simple NPC with a structure based on merit is looking very good right now
enjoy the ABs being Australia or Argentina.
save the sas for when you have a suggestion that everyone will like
and i was actually just saying im looking forward to the NPC
-
@mariner4life Then you've got the other issue of Aus potentially missing out on a domestic final (compared to Super AU). With Super AU the final was a huge success for them (40k crowd - huge ratings). I can see why Rugby Au want to harness that and not lose it.
Even if you had a 'best Aus vs best Aus' final after a combined comp - it would lose it's lustre if it's for example the 4th ranked team playing the 6th ranked team (out of 10 Aus-NZ teams).
With Super AU they've got a domestic comp that leads nicely to a final with 2 guaranteed Aus teams.
@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life Then you've got the other issue of Aus potentially missing out on a domestic final (compared to Super AU). With Super AU the final was a huge success for them (40k crowd - huge ratings). I can see why Rugby Au want to harness that and not lose it.
Even if you had a 'best Aus vs best Aus' final after a combined comp - it would lose it's lustre if it's for example the 4th ranked team playing the 6th ranked team (out of 10 Aus-NZ teams).
With Super AU they've got a domestic comp that leads nicely to a final with 2 guaranteed Aus teams.
yep, great, wonderful
Where does the money come from to pay for everything?
And, as with Super Rugby Aotearoa it's simply not enough content. Not enough games on a weekend. Not enough weekends.
-
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
have to say the nice and simple NPC with a structure based on merit is looking very good right now
enjoy the ABs being Australia or Argentina.
save the sas for when you have a suggestion that everyone will like
and i was actually just saying im looking forward to the NPC
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
have to say the nice and simple NPC with a structure based on merit is looking very good right now
enjoy the ABs being Australia or Argentina.
save the sas for when you have a suggestion that everyone will like
and i was actually just saying im looking forward to the NPC
it wasn't sass, it's the reality.
Same as the AFL thread, romanticism doesn't pay the bills. Now that sport is a business, we're kinda fucked. Our natural advantage is our players, and we need to whore ourselves out just to keep them.
-
we may as well close the thread, its just everyone dumping on everyones elses ideas, makes me think there is now solutions and rugby at that level is dead
@mariner4life and too reiterate, i wasnt saying flag the trans Ta$man level of rugby, was just saying im looking forward to the NPC
-
@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life Then you've got the other issue of Aus potentially missing out on a domestic final (compared to Super AU). With Super AU the final was a huge success for them (40k crowd - huge ratings). I can see why Rugby Au want to harness that and not lose it.
Even if you had a 'best Aus vs best Aus' final after a combined comp - it would lose it's lustre if it's for example the 4th ranked team playing the 6th ranked team (out of 10 Aus-NZ teams).
With Super AU they've got a domestic comp that leads nicely to a final with 2 guaranteed Aus teams.
yep, great, wonderful
Where does the money come from to pay for everything?
And, as with Super Rugby Aotearoa it's simply not enough content. Not enough games on a weekend. Not enough weekends.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwimurph said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@mariner4life Then you've got the other issue of Aus potentially missing out on a domestic final (compared to Super AU). With Super AU the final was a huge success for them (40k crowd - huge ratings). I can see why Rugby Au want to harness that and not lose it.
Even if you had a 'best Aus vs best Aus' final after a combined comp - it would lose it's lustre if it's for example the 4th ranked team playing the 6th ranked team (out of 10 Aus-NZ teams).
With Super AU they've got a domestic comp that leads nicely to a final with 2 guaranteed Aus teams.
yep, great, wonderful
Where does the money come from to pay for everything?
And, as with Super Rugby Aotearoa it's simply not enough content. Not enough games on a weekend. Not enough weekends.
I agree. There's no easy answers.
-
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
How does RA grow the game playing amongst themselves?
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
How does RA get better playing substandard opposition? What happens when they come up against good teams?
...it grows interest, as it did during SRAU, more people watched that than SRTT games.
What we're not privy to is discernible markers of this increased interest - crowd numbers, memberships, supporter gear purchases etc.
isn't that a very oldschool approach, hasn't tv demand and associated revenue long surpassed those turning up to the ground, especially when talking about a national/international comp and especially especially during covid when the rare few that might fly around to watch their team...cant/wont
I think we can agree that it's a declining percentage as viewership increases, but there will still, be those who engage/ reengage. I sincerely doubt the Tahs crowds were impacted by covid, rather than their results.
Ultimately it's up to Australians themselves whether they accept that Australian rugby has moved back to its historical mean. There's an awful lot of supporters around my age who expect and yearn for the success they had during the 90s. And they're bitter and angry. For some reason it's New Zealand's fault for not losing more.
@antipodean all the more reason to have our comp. If we simply cannot compete with NZ teams and this is the historical mean, why are we playing each other at all?
The fundamental fact is that an uncompetitive competition is doomed before it starts. Its contrary to the purpose of sport.
A couple of 'champions cup' style games and and the Bledisloe cup should be enough fodder for you. We can otherwise get on with our stuff.
-
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning
AFL fans aside, that is not the Australian way. You gotta win or you are forgotten.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning
AFL fans aside, that is not the Australian way. You gotta win or you are forgotten.
The aussie way is also to preach that anyone and everyone needs to be a leader so anyone and everyone from the workplace to the PM’s office (and, yesterday, deputy PM) spend all their time stealing each other’s glory but avoiding any accountability then going the extra mile to ensure they replace the person above them (who is too busy trying to replace the person above them)…
Oh and governance. Everyone is into governance if it means writing badly formed and ill-thought out policy (and “strategy”) that nobody has time to read let alone follow... -
@antipodean all the more reason to have our comp. If we simply cannot compete with NZ teams and this is the historical mean, why are we playing each other at all?
The fundamental fact is that an uncompetitive competition is doomed before it starts. Its contrary to the purpose of sport.
A couple of 'champions cup' style games and and the Bledisloe cup should be enough fodder for you. We can otherwise get on with our stuff.
@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean all the more reason to have our comp. If we simply cannot compete with NZ teams and this is the historical mean, why are we playing each other at all?
Naked self interest.
The fundamental fact is that an uncompetitive competition is doomed before it starts. Its contrary to the purpose of sport.
A couple of 'champions cup' style games and and the Bledisloe cup should be enough fodder for you. We can otherwise get on with our stuff.
The point is to raise standards. The Bledisloe has been played for every year for decades now solely to keep interest and competitiveness in Australian Rugby. Even now Australians aren't interested in the Bledisloe.
What's genuinely holding Australian rugby back is amateur administration. Which is ironic given they had a head start when the game went professional.
-
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
How about we go with @Duluth's idea and have 10 NZ teams. Maybe 8 would be enough?
id be interested in that but i think people just started saying we dont have the depth for that and/or thats getting to close to the NPC team anyway
-
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
How about we go with @Duluth's idea and have 10 NZ teams. Maybe 8 would be enough?
id be interested in that but i think people just started saying we dont have the depth for that and/or thats getting to close to the NPC team anyway
-
@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean all the more reason to have our comp. If we simply cannot compete with NZ teams and this is the historical mean, why are we playing each other at all?
Naked self interest.
The fundamental fact is that an uncompetitive competition is doomed before it starts. Its contrary to the purpose of sport.
A couple of 'champions cup' style games and and the Bledisloe cup should be enough fodder for you. We can otherwise get on with our stuff.
The point is to raise standards. The Bledisloe has been played for every year for decades now solely to keep interest and competitiveness in Australian Rugby. Even now Australians aren't interested in the Bledisloe.
What's genuinely holding Australian rugby back is amateur administration. Which is ironic given they had a head start when the game went professional.
@antipodean hard to disagree with that. The administration is diabolical. But thats not a reason to agree to a bad comp structure.
The premises that we can improve by condensing teams or by playing Kiwis regularly doesn't seem to have worked in the past. Not sure why it will suddenly start working now.
-
@kiwiwomble It would even up the NZ and AU teams.
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble It would even up the NZ and AU teams.
oh, i agree, i think 7 would be all that would be needed to drop the depth combined with the longer season, too many more and i can see the competition with the existing NPC teams
