Super Rugby Trans Tasman
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean i have to disagree, rugby in aus is just in a completely different situation than in NZ, they actually need to grow interest and grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning, Nz fan just want the best rugby, finding something that fixes both is going to tough if not impossible
How does RA grow the game playing amongst themselves?
do we really need to mix thing up? top five NPC teams play in a trans Ta$man comp but we keep SRA for the higher level. most people seemed to think playing the aussie teams wasn;t doing much for our top players other than risking injury...but it might help younger NPC level guys
How does RA get better playing substandard opposition? What happens when they come up against good teams?
...it grows interest, as it did during SRAU, more people watched that than SRTT games.
What we're not privy to is discernible markers of this increased interest - crowd numbers, memberships, supporter gear purchases etc.
isn't that a very oldschool approach, hasn't tv demand and associated revenue long surpassed those turning up to the ground, especially when talking about a national/international comp and especially especially during covid when the rare few that might fly around to watch their team...cant/wont
I think we can agree that it's a declining percentage as viewership increases, but there will still, be those who engage/ reengage. I sincerely doubt the Tahs crowds were impacted by covid, rather than their results.
Ultimately it's up to Australians themselves whether they accept that Australian rugby has moved back to its historical mean. There's an awful lot of supporters around my age who expect and yearn for the success they had during the 90s. And they're bitter and angry. For some reason it's New Zealand's fault for not losing more.
@antipodean all the more reason to have our comp. If we simply cannot compete with NZ teams and this is the historical mean, why are we playing each other at all?
The fundamental fact is that an uncompetitive competition is doomed before it starts. Its contrary to the purpose of sport.
A couple of 'champions cup' style games and and the Bledisloe cup should be enough fodder for you. We can otherwise get on with our stuff.
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning
AFL fans aside, that is not the Australian way. You gotta win or you are forgotten.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
grow fans that will still watch team when theyre not winning
AFL fans aside, that is not the Australian way. You gotta win or you are forgotten.
The aussie way is also to preach that anyone and everyone needs to be a leader so anyone and everyone from the workplace to the PM’s office (and, yesterday, deputy PM) spend all their time stealing each other’s glory but avoiding any accountability then going the extra mile to ensure they replace the person above them (who is too busy trying to replace the person above them)…
Oh and governance. Everyone is into governance if it means writing badly formed and ill-thought out policy (and “strategy”) that nobody has time to read let alone follow... -
@antipodean all the more reason to have our comp. If we simply cannot compete with NZ teams and this is the historical mean, why are we playing each other at all?
The fundamental fact is that an uncompetitive competition is doomed before it starts. Its contrary to the purpose of sport.
A couple of 'champions cup' style games and and the Bledisloe cup should be enough fodder for you. We can otherwise get on with our stuff.
@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean all the more reason to have our comp. If we simply cannot compete with NZ teams and this is the historical mean, why are we playing each other at all?
Naked self interest.
The fundamental fact is that an uncompetitive competition is doomed before it starts. Its contrary to the purpose of sport.
A couple of 'champions cup' style games and and the Bledisloe cup should be enough fodder for you. We can otherwise get on with our stuff.
The point is to raise standards. The Bledisloe has been played for every year for decades now solely to keep interest and competitiveness in Australian Rugby. Even now Australians aren't interested in the Bledisloe.
What's genuinely holding Australian rugby back is amateur administration. Which is ironic given they had a head start when the game went professional.
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@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
How about we go with @Duluth's idea and have 10 NZ teams. Maybe 8 would be enough?
id be interested in that but i think people just started saying we dont have the depth for that and/or thats getting to close to the NPC team anyway
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@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
How about we go with @Duluth's idea and have 10 NZ teams. Maybe 8 would be enough?
id be interested in that but i think people just started saying we dont have the depth for that and/or thats getting to close to the NPC team anyway
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@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean all the more reason to have our comp. If we simply cannot compete with NZ teams and this is the historical mean, why are we playing each other at all?
Naked self interest.
The fundamental fact is that an uncompetitive competition is doomed before it starts. Its contrary to the purpose of sport.
A couple of 'champions cup' style games and and the Bledisloe cup should be enough fodder for you. We can otherwise get on with our stuff.
The point is to raise standards. The Bledisloe has been played for every year for decades now solely to keep interest and competitiveness in Australian Rugby. Even now Australians aren't interested in the Bledisloe.
What's genuinely holding Australian rugby back is amateur administration. Which is ironic given they had a head start when the game went professional.
@antipodean hard to disagree with that. The administration is diabolical. But thats not a reason to agree to a bad comp structure.
The premises that we can improve by condensing teams or by playing Kiwis regularly doesn't seem to have worked in the past. Not sure why it will suddenly start working now.
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@kiwiwomble It would even up the NZ and AU teams.
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble It would even up the NZ and AU teams.
oh, i agree, i think 7 would be all that would be needed to drop the depth combined with the longer season, too many more and i can see the competition with the existing NPC teams
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@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble It would even up the NZ and AU teams.
oh, i agree, i think 7 would be all that would be needed to drop the depth combined with the longer season, too many more and i can see the competition with the existing NPC teams
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
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@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
im a purest at heart, i'd prefer Otago to win the NPC that the highlanders to win super rugby so i do start to waver when we talk of the NPC just being a development comp or almost having as many super teams as NPC...but if needs be
Thats why 7 kind of works for me, basically every 2 NPC teams become a super franchise...huge issue with where their support comes from though, who will leave the team they currently follow...also doubt they would put one in Nelson so it wont water down the crusaders too much so they could still end up thrashing everyone
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thinking this through some more
one of the most likely options would be central north island...which would basically attract HB players...so all it would do is water down the Highlanders squad
we rely on those guys being ignored by their closest super teams
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thinking this through some more
one of the most likely options would be central north island...which would basically attract HB players...so all it would do is water down the Highlanders squad
we rely on those guys being ignored by their closest super teams
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
central north island
Central Vikings would be a good name?
What say you @Nepia
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@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
im a purest at heart, i'd prefer Otago to win the NPC that the highlanders to win super rugby so i do start to waver when we talk of the NPC just being a development comp or almost having as many super teams as NPC...but if needs be
Thats why 7 kind of works for me, basically every 2 NPC teams become a super franchise...huge issue with where their support comes from though, who will leave the team they currently follow...also doubt they would put one in Nelson so it wont water down the crusaders too much so they could still end up thrashing everyone
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
im a purest at heart, i'd prefer Otago to win the NPC that the highlanders to win super rugby so i do start to waver when we talk of the NPC just being a development comp or almost having as many super teams as NPC...but if needs be
Thats why 7 kind of works for me, basically every 2 NPC teams become a super franchise...huge issue with where their support comes from though, who will leave the team they currently follow...also doubt they would put one in Nelson so it wont water down the crusaders too much so they could still end up thrashing everyone
Don't you just end up creating a couple of weak extra teams?
Saders and Highlanders would stay the same. Canes wouldn't change much. Auckland would lose Harbour but gain CM. Chiefs would lose CM and Naki.
The new franchises would be Taniwha/Harbour and Naki/Poo.
Yipee. -
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
im a purest at heart, i'd prefer Otago to win the NPC that the highlanders to win super rugby so i do start to waver when we talk of the NPC just being a development comp or almost having as many super teams as NPC...but if needs be
Thats why 7 kind of works for me, basically every 2 NPC teams become a super franchise...huge issue with where their support comes from though, who will leave the team they currently follow...also doubt they would put one in Nelson so it wont water down the crusaders too much so they could still end up thrashing everyone
Don't you just end up creating a couple of weak extra teams?
Saders and Highlanders would stay the same. Canes wouldn't change much. Auckland would lose Harbour but gain CM. Chiefs would lose CM and Naki.
The new franchises would be Taniwha/Harbour and Naki/Poo.
Yipee.@crucial well, the idea is to weaken some teams, i did say it possible woulnd't weaken the one you really need to if you were going to make a more competitive comp, and it wouldnt be fair to so anything specific to weaken the crusaders...so back to the drawing board
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@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
i am on board with this. Except i would drop 4 unions to the Heartland champs, and have 10 NPC sides.
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@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
central north island
Central Vikings would be a good name?
What say you @Nepia
@taniwharugby said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
central north island
Central Vikings would be a good name?
What say you @Nepia
Seriously Mods, how’s that downvote button coming along?
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@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
i am on board with this. Except i would drop 4 unions to the Heartland champs, and have 10 NPC sides.
@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
i am on board with this. Except i would drop 4 unions to the Heartland champs, and have 10 NPC sides.
this has always been my prefered option but normally get shot down with "the unions are too small" etc
if this was replacing both the NPC and SR would you make it a 28 game home and away?
and would you have promotion and relegation so those four teams ad a chance to come back up? based on last year that wold put Naki, soutland counties and Manawatu down
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@mariner4life said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@tim said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@kiwiwomble Then there is the option of a longer Super Rugby competition with 10 kiwi teams, and dropping the NPC to a development competition.
i am on board with this. Except i would drop 4 unions to the Heartland champs, and have 10 NPC sides.
this has always been my prefered option but normally get shot down with "the unions are too small" etc
if this was replacing both the NPC and SR would you make it a 28 game home and away?
and would you have promotion and relegation so those four teams ad a chance to come back up? based on last year that wold put Naki, soutland counties and Manawatu down
@kiwiwomble said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
and would you have promotion and relegation so those four teams ad a chance to come back up
what's the point? once they are done from there it's too far back.
You have to be realistic
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@antipodean hard to disagree with that. The administration is diabolical. But thats not a reason to agree to a bad comp structure.
The premises that we can improve by condensing teams or by playing Kiwis regularly doesn't seem to have worked in the past. Not sure why it will suddenly start working now.
@derpus said in Super Rugby Trans Ta$man:
@antipodean hard to disagree with that. The administration is diabolical. But thats not a reason to agree to a bad comp structure.
The premises that we can improve by condensing teams or by playing Kiwis regularly doesn't seem to have worked in the past. Not sure why it will suddenly start working now.
Consider the counterfactual then, would Australian rugby be better/ worse off if it hadn't?
I'd be supportive of doubling the NZ franchises in a one conference ladder with semi finals. More content for broadcasters, certainty for supporters that there'll be fixtures on every weekend and avoids teams taking the piss having All Blacks on the bench waiting to replace All Blacks.
I'd also get rid of the RC.
