Foster, Robertson, Rennie etc
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@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
Yeah I just feel if they don't hate the guy then it's unlikely they'll slander him. The leadership group must also be very close to him after all these years. All the players you mentioned will have probably developed a fairly strong friendship with him. Takes a lot to throw that under a bus.
@rancid-schnitzel said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
Yeah I just feel if they don't hate the guy then it's unlikely they'll slander him. The leadership group must also be very close to him after all these years. All the players you mentioned will have probably developed a fairly strong friendship with him. Takes a lot to throw that under a bus.
I do wonder if they have the same loyalty to his assistants though.
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@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@rancid-schnitzel works both ways though, there are plenty of players Fozzie NEEDS, so if they came out swinging, NZR 'should' listen because if they felt they couldnt work with him, it jeopardises their future in Black, not form speaking out, but looking at off-shore options
The Barretts (mostly BB) Whitelock, Retallick, Ardie, Cane, Smith, ALB, Rieko, Mounga, Coles are all key to any side Fozzie is gonna pick and the near future of the team, if half them came out and said he's a dick, send him, I expect NZR would have no choice but to take it seriously.
Because you can garrantee the leadership group speak about such things, so a 'coup' of sorts is highly likely if they thought he was shit.
I have already said it was a shit decision to re-appoint now, while several games are ahead, and with the experience not going too, high possibility we lose more than 1.
Yeah I just feel if they don't hate the guy then it's unlikely they'll slander him. The leadership group must also be very close to him after all these years. All the players you mentioned will have probably developed a fairly strong friendship with him. Takes a lot to throw that under a bus.
@rancid-schnitzel but this is thier careers too, surely if you think your boss is gonna hold your career back you leave or if given the opportunity to speak about them, you do?
But can also see the loyalty angle too.
The likes of Whitelock, Smith, Retallick have the opportunity to go out legends of our game, but if Fozzie (cos that is where the fingers are pointing) fucks things up for the team, it will tarnish thier careers too.
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@rancid-schnitzel but this is thier careers too, surely if you think your boss is gonna hold your career back you leave or if given the opportunity to speak about them, you do?
But can also see the loyalty angle too.
The likes of Whitelock, Smith, Retallick have the opportunity to go out legends of our game, but if Fozzie (cos that is where the fingers are pointing) fucks things up for the team, it will tarnish thier careers too.
At the national level and particularly for the current crop of ABs, I can’t see any personalities or egos that would push for a coup even if they thought it was warranted.
Given the way the ABs are viewed and the whole “no one is bigger than the jersey” mantra, I’d say it would be highly unlikely for a player or even a handful to come out publicly and speak out about a coach to get them removed. Both players and coaches positions are pretty tenuous at the best of times.
I’d see that possibly happening at Super level where there’s less public scrutiny on the line (still risks), not the history and there is still a view that it’s all a bit artificial and about the money anyway so more cutthroat. But I’d say unlikely at provincial level because of the history, pride, grassroots, community connection etc.
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There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
@godder said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
It doesn't help that GH was part of the process and even he was disappointed they picked Fozzie
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There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
@godder said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
Or,
#1 we don't understand the process so judge Foster on his results..
#2 His results...
#3 ..We don't understand why he received two more years...
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@bovidae said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
The senior players (and Shand) would have been asked for feedback and I doubt this decision would have been made now if their opinions were overwhelmingly negative.
I'm not sure of this. The evidence is that Foster is an extremely likeable person and players like him. He never faced any issues with the Chiefs, even when they came second last.
In some cases there have been useless coaches that get player support precisely because it allows the players to do what they want.
@chester-draws said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@bovidae said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
The senior players (and Shand) would have been asked for feedback and I doubt this decision would have been made now if their opinions were overwhelmingly negative.
I'm not sure of this. The evidence is that Foster is an extremely likeable person and players like him. He never faced any issues with the Chiefs, even when they came second last.
In some cases there have been useless coaches that get player support precisely because it allows the players to do what they want.
@junior said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@bovidae said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
The senior players (and Shand) would have been asked for feedback and I doubt this decision would have been made now if their opinions were overwhelmingly negative.
The players generally seem happy enough and Foster seems like a decent enough bloke. But that does not mean he's the best person to coach the team and get it performing to its absolute maximum. Maybe he's too likeable and not willing to push players hard enough or make tough enough decisions...?
Couple of similar points here that make me think of when our sevens programme turned to shit near the end of the Tietjens era. There were pretty strong noises back then that the players wanted 'more say' and 'leadership from within the playing group', and when they got their way, they cut back on the gruelling fitness training Titch was putting them through, and started losing.
Point being that even with a good coach, the players can sabotage their own chances while thinking they are doing good - let alone with the affable old fossil that Foster seems to be.
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@godder said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
There's a lot of pontificating in this thread about process, but the main issue as far as I can tell is that we just don't rate Foster, so any process that appoints Foster is flawed.
Or,
#1 we don't understand the process so judge Foster on his results..
#2 His results...#3 ..We don't understand why he received two more years...
@nostrildamus said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
..We don't understand why he received two more years...
Gregan gave us 4 more years...
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@chester-draws said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@bovidae said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
The senior players (and Shand) would have been asked for feedback and I doubt this decision would have been made now if their opinions were overwhelmingly negative.
I'm not sure of this. The evidence is that Foster is an extremely likeable person and players like him. He never faced any issues with the Chiefs, even when they came second last.
In some cases there have been useless coaches that get player support precisely because it allows the players to do what they want.
@junior said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@bovidae said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
The senior players (and Shand) would have been asked for feedback and I doubt this decision would have been made now if their opinions were overwhelmingly negative.
The players generally seem happy enough and Foster seems like a decent enough bloke. But that does not mean he's the best person to coach the team and get it performing to its absolute maximum. Maybe he's too likeable and not willing to push players hard enough or make tough enough decisions...?
Couple of similar points here that make me think of when our sevens programme turned to shit near the end of the Tietjens era. There were pretty strong noises back then that the players wanted 'more say' and 'leadership from within the playing group', and when they got their way, they cut back on the gruelling fitness training Titch was putting them through, and started losing.
Point being that even with a good coach, the players can sabotage their own chances while thinking they are doing good - let alone with the affable old fossil that Foster seems to be.
@delicatessen
I think there is many more variables into why NZ 7s dropped off.
The world putting some kind of effort into 7's being the main one.
-More players heading overseas (general depth erosion of NZ Rugby)
-7s becoming its own sport meaning players had to commit more.
-other teams adapting and evolving, which I don't think NZ did.Under Titch in the end we were playing an awful crash ball wide style which I guess kind of suited the cattle he picked but ultimately didn't work.
He also did nothing special with Samoa that showed he was kind of done. great career but time moves on. The stories I've heard of camps he would train were horrendous on the field and in the kitchen and i know most people think that make players better but, there are clear limits to adaption and thats well beyond it. -
@delicatessen
I think there is many more variables into why NZ 7s dropped off.
The world putting some kind of effort into 7's being the main one.
-More players heading overseas (general depth erosion of NZ Rugby)
-7s becoming its own sport meaning players had to commit more.
-other teams adapting and evolving, which I don't think NZ did.Under Titch in the end we were playing an awful crash ball wide style which I guess kind of suited the cattle he picked but ultimately didn't work.
He also did nothing special with Samoa that showed he was kind of done. great career but time moves on. The stories I've heard of camps he would train were horrendous on the field and in the kitchen and i know most people think that make players better but, there are clear limits to adaption and thats well beyond it.@muddyriver Titch's methods worked well when we had the best cattle and we trained harder than everyone else
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I wonder if there was another coach with the same AB record as Fozzie whether they would have nearly as much negativity about them.
It feels like he has basically zero 'benefit of the doubt' and there's a whole bunch of confirmation bias occurring - with any success brushed off and any failure "I told you so"
Now that I think about it - this whole place runs on confirmation bias on basically every topic - me especially!
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I wonder if there was another coach with the same AB record as Fozzie whether they would have nearly as much negativity about them.
It feels like he has basically zero 'benefit of the doubt' and there's a whole bunch of confirmation bias occurring - with any success brushed off and any failure "I told you so"
Now that I think about it - this whole place runs on confirmation bias on basically every topic - me especially!
@kiwimurph said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
Now that I think about it - this whole place runs on confirmation bias on basically every topic - me especially!
i've been here a while, i don't think i have seen anyone change their mind on here ever. They may concede a point every now and then
but
if there is any evidence that will back the initial assertion up they'll pile back in with "i told you so"
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i hated the Foster years at the Chiefs because all the shit i focus on in a game of football was sub-standard. We would play a lot of pretty rugby (most especially when the pressure was off) but
Shaky set piece;
Inaccurate ruck work;
passive, porous defense.I wonder what that sounds like?
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i hated the Foster years at the Chiefs because all the shit i focus on in a game of football was sub-standard. We would play a lot of pretty rugby (most especially when the pressure was off) but
Shaky set piece;
Inaccurate ruck work;
passive, porous defense.I wonder what that sounds like?
@mariner4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
I wonder what that sounds like?
2021 Wallabies in Bleds 1 and 2?
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@mariner4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
I wonder what that sounds like?
2021 Wallabies in Bleds 1 and 2?
@kiwimurph said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@mariner4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
I wonder what that sounds like?
2021Wallabiesin Bleds 1 and 2?since 2004-ishFTFY
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i hated the Foster years at the Chiefs because all the shit i focus on in a game of football was sub-standard. We would play a lot of pretty rugby (most especially when the pressure was off) but
Shaky set piece;
Inaccurate ruck work;
passive, porous defense.I wonder what that sounds like?
@mariner4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
i hated the Foster years at the Chiefs because all the shit i focus on in a game of football was sub-standard. We would play a lot of pretty rugby (most especially when the pressure was off) but
Shaky set piece;
Inaccurate ruck work;
passive, porous defense.I wonder what that sounds like?
there was enough to keep you coming back next week because there was talent, but often we would look good in patches within games and ultimately under perform given the talent at his disposal.
Can we close this thread? Every time I see the title it gives me stress a ha
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@mariner4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
i hated the Foster years at the Chiefs because all the shit i focus on in a game of football was sub-standard. We would play a lot of pretty rugby (most especially when the pressure was off) but
Shaky set piece;
Inaccurate ruck work;
passive, porous defense.I wonder what that sounds like?
there was enough to keep you coming back next week because there was talent, but often we would look good in patches within games and ultimately under perform given the talent at his disposal.
Can we close this thread? Every time I see the title it gives me stress a ha
@bayimports i keep seeing it and remembering @Gibbit and his April Fools thread many many years ago
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@kiwimurph said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
Now that I think about it - this whole place runs on confirmation bias on basically every topic - me especially!
i've been here a while, i don't think i have seen anyone change their mind on here ever. They may concede a point every now and then
but
if there is any evidence that will back the initial assertion up they'll pile back in with "i told you so"
@mariner4life said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@kiwimurph said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
Now that I think about it - this whole place runs on confirmation bias on basically every topic - me especially!
i've been here a while, i don't think i have seen anyone change their mind on here ever. They may concede a point every now and then
but
if there is any evidence that will back the initial assertion up they'll pile back in with "i told you so"
What are we sposed to do? Admit we're wrong? On the internet?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
..We don't understand why he received two more years...
Gregan gave us 4 more years...
@taniwharugby said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
@nostrildamus said in Foster signs 2 year extension:
..We don't understand why he received two more years...
Gregan gave us 4 more years...
Ouch! Foster might as well!
