All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour
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I think we have the players. The problem seems to be the same old shite since 2016 and the game has moved on. If I was a Wobs fan, even losing, I would see something new being tried. The Irish and French are steaming ahead. As an AB fan, we are seeing a slight decline year after year but this is being papered over by the brilliance of some of the players and the ABs ability to be flat-track bullies (always have been, even the great teams). Coupled to this is the complete lack of innovation or any new approach, good new players yes, but they are going into the same old systems and approach. It is the staleness of the last years of the Hansen era. This is "Hansen light."
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@nostrildamus Blackadder should have been subbed.
I can't believe that Christie wasn't brought on to provide something different.
@bovidae said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@nostrildamus Blackadder should have been subbed.
I can't believe that Christie wasn't brought on to provide something different.
I think they thought TJP's leadership and tackling was more important than fast delivery as the ABs only had a little possession anyway. But given the gruelling ordeal I don't understand why they didn't refresh with the bench ASAP.
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I think we have the players. The problem seems to be the same old shite since 2016 and the game has moved on. If I was a Wobs fan, even losing, I would see something new being tried. The Irish and French are steaming ahead. As an AB fan, we are seeing a slight decline year after year but this is being papered over by the brilliance of some of the players and the ABs ability to be flat-track bullies (always have been, even the great teams). Coupled to this is the complete lack of innovation or any new approach, good new players yes, but they are going into the same old systems and approach. It is the staleness of the last years of the Hansen era. This is "Hansen light."
@old-samurai-jack said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I think we have the players. The problem seems to be the same old shite since 2016 and the game has moved on. If I was a Wobs fan, even losing, I would see something new being tried. The Irish and French are steaming ahead. As an AB fan, we are seeing a slight decline year after year but this is being papered over by the brilliance of some of the players and the ABs ability to be flat-track bullies (always have been, even the great teams). Coupled to this is the complete lack of innovation or any new approach, good new players yes, but they are going into the same old systems and approach. It is the staleness of the last years of the Hansen era. This is "Hansen light."
I would happily have lower scores against the weaker sides if we competed better against the stronger sides.
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@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore player and brain drain is a natural result of our success. Few would argue that we let anyone of these players go and that they would walk into the ABs. But I think all of us would agree we are not playing to our optimal best
This is very true but it speaks to issues with our coaching and selection policies - the fact that guys who couldn’t “cut it “ in NZ can go overseas, improve their games and then out play their “better” opposite numbers in black.
@junior said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@canefan said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore player and brain drain is a natural result of our success. Few would argue that we let anyone of these players go and that they would walk into the ABs. But I think all of us would agree we are not playing to our optimal best
This is very true but it speaks to issues with our coaching and selection policies - the fact that guys who couldn’t “cut it “ in NZ can go overseas, improve their games and then out play their “better” opposite numbers in black.
Although for every Lowe there are probably 5 others that haven’t gone on or just performed as expected.
Sometimes it’s just opportunity and circumstance. The work ethic and talent were always there and because they moved overseas they got a chance.
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I'm thought @Bones was pretty clever setting up some auto-posts to throw us off the fact that he is actually James Lowe
@voodoo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
I'm thought @Bones was pretty clever setting up some auto-posts to throw us off the fact that he is actually James Lowe
He looks more swarthy and middle eastern on FB but then again it could be a fake profile.
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@mofitzy_ said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@majorrage
You either want Foster gone or embrace failure.Well, let's just hope we aren't saying the same thing in two year's time with a new coach. The issues are much deeper than that in NZ Rugby - just look at how the Black Ferns were mauled.
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All I can really say from this game is that we were completely outgunned by an impressive Irish side. NO EXCUSES.
A few players that aren't cutting it for me -
Codie Taylor - he just lacks any real physicality at test level, from what I've seen this year I would rather throw Samisoni into that starting role, he just looks better suited when we are playing against bigger sides and it's quite noticeable when he's not there.
Brodie Rettalick - looks like a shell of his former self but I guess there aren't too many more options with Barrett back in NZ. Really need to grow some depth in this position.
Loose forwards: as already mentioned on this forum, the mix was probably off. We needed a bigger ball carrier at 6 to complement Dalton and Ardie. I don't think Blackadder played badly but the selectors probably missed the mark on that combo for a bigger Irish pack.
David Havili: unfortunately he continues to miss the mark as an International 12. I rate his skillset but he just gets smoked almost every time he tries to crash it up. Definitely need to find a bigger inside centre quick fast.
Onwards and upwards though. Bring on France.
@canes4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
All I can really say from this game is that we were completely outgunned by an impressive Irish side. NO EXCUSES.
A few players that aren't cutting it for me -
Codie Taylor - he just lacks any real physicality at test level, from what I've seen this year I would rather throw Samisoni into that starting role, he just looks better suited when we are playing against bigger sides and it's quite noticeable when he's not there.
Brodie Rettalick - looks like a shell of his former self but I guess there aren't too many more options with Barrett back in NZ. Really need to grow some depth in this position.
Loose forwards: as already mentioned on this forum, the mix was probably off. We needed a bigger ball carrier at 6 to complement Dalton and Ardie. I don't think Blackadder played badly but the selectors probably missed the mark on that combo for a bigger Irish pack.
David Havili: unfortunately he continues to miss the mark as an International 12. I rate his skillset but he just gets smoked almost every time he tries to crash it up. Definitely need to find a bigger inside centre quick fast.
At this stage, I wonder if it's worthwhile dumping some of the old guard for newer talent against France. Nothing to lose and might generate a bit of hunger and freshness in the team. Something drastic to focus minds and, let's face it, Foster hasn't got much to lose.
Onwards and upwards though. Bring on France.
We're going onwards (except on the pitch) but upwards?
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@canes4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
All I can really say from this game is that we were completely outgunned by an impressive Irish side. NO EXCUSES.
A few players that aren't cutting it for me -
Codie Taylor - he just lacks any real physicality at test level, from what I've seen this year I would rather throw Samisoni into that starting role, he just looks better suited when we are playing against bigger sides and it's quite noticeable when he's not there.
Brodie Rettalick - looks like a shell of his former self but I guess there aren't too many more options with Barrett back in NZ. Really need to grow some depth in this position.
Loose forwards: as already mentioned on this forum, the mix was probably off. We needed a bigger ball carrier at 6 to complement Dalton and Ardie. I don't think Blackadder played badly but the selectors probably missed the mark on that combo for a bigger Irish pack.
David Havili: unfortunately he continues to miss the mark as an International 12. I rate his skillset but he just gets smoked almost every time he tries to crash it up. Definitely need to find a bigger inside centre quick fast.
At this stage, I wonder if it's worthwhile dumping some of the old guard for newer talent against France. Nothing to lose and might generate a bit of hunger and freshness in the team. Something drastic to focus minds and, let's face it, Foster hasn't got much to lose.
Onwards and upwards though. Bring on France.
We're going onwards (except on the pitch) but upwards?
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
At this stage, I wonder if it's worthwhile dumping some of the old guard for newer talent against France. Nothing to lose and might generate a bit of hunger and freshness in the team. Something drastic to focus minds and, let's face it, Foster hasn't got much to lose.
I think they're going to try and play fresh people. So Cane/Jacobsen/Ioane loosies, new frnot row, any lock who can walk, and quite a different backline.
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This from the poster Highlander on Roar is one of the best analyses I’ve seen of what’s ailing the ABs.
“Somewhere deep in the heart of this coaching group and squad of players is a belief that they can run and outscore anyone, no matter the circumstances, no matter what the opposition bring.
“It’s misguided, it’s entitled and it’s just downright wrong. We don’t need to follow the years old rules of earning the right to play, we are different.”
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This from the poster Highlander on Roar is one of the best analyses I’ve seen of what’s ailing the ABs.
“Somewhere deep in the heart of this coaching group and squad of players is a belief that they can run and outscore anyone, no matter the circumstances, no matter what the opposition bring.
“It’s misguided, it’s entitled and it’s just downright wrong. We don’t need to follow the years old rules of earning the right to play, we are different.”
@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
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@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
Which is perfectly in synch with what I saw.
I think one of the worst things that happened to us was the score that had us in front at half time. Gave us belief as per above, when what was needed was something else.
Probably not something we were capable of to be honest.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
Which is perfectly in synch with what I saw.
I think one of the worst things that happened to us was the score that had us in front at half time. Gave us belief as per above, when what was needed was something else.
Probably not something we were capable of to be honest.
@majorrage me too, been saying it all season, every touch of the ball they try and do something highlight reel worthy rather than do the basics, build pressure and create a real opportunity to do something highlight reel worthy
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@canes4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
All I can really say from this game is that we were completely outgunned by an impressive Irish side. NO EXCUSES.
A few players that aren't cutting it for me -
Codie Taylor - he just lacks any real physicality at test level, from what I've seen this year I would rather throw Samisoni into that starting role, he just looks better suited when we are playing against bigger sides and it's quite noticeable when he's not there.
Brodie Rettalick - looks like a shell of his former self but I guess there aren't too many more options with Barrett back in NZ. Really need to grow some depth in this position.
Loose forwards: as already mentioned on this forum, the mix was probably off. We needed a bigger ball carrier at 6 to complement Dalton and Ardie. I don't think Blackadder played badly but the selectors probably missed the mark on that combo for a bigger Irish pack.
David Havili: unfortunately he continues to miss the mark as an International 12. I rate his skillset but he just gets smoked almost every time he tries to crash it up. Definitely need to find a bigger inside centre quick fast.
At this stage, I wonder if it's worthwhile dumping some of the old guard for newer talent against France. Nothing to lose and might generate a bit of hunger and freshness in the team. Something drastic to focus minds and, let's face it, Foster hasn't got much to lose.
Onwards and upwards though. Bring on France.
We're going onwards (except on the pitch) but upwards?
@victor-meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@canes4life said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
All I can really say from this game is that we were completely outgunned by an impressive Irish side. NO EXCUSES.
A few players that aren't cutting it for me -
Codie Taylor - he just lacks any real physicality at test level, from what I've seen this year I would rather throw Samisoni into that starting role, he just looks better suited when we are playing against bigger sides and it's quite noticeable when he's not there.
Brodie Rettalick - looks like a shell of his former self but I guess there aren't too many more options with Barrett back in NZ. Really need to grow some depth in this position.
Loose forwards: as already mentioned on this forum, the mix was probably off. We needed a bigger ball carrier at 6 to complement Dalton and Ardie. I don't think Blackadder played badly but the selectors probably missed the mark on that combo for a bigger Irish pack.
David Havili: unfortunately he continues to miss the mark as an International 12. I rate his skillset but he just gets smoked almost every time he tries to crash it up. Definitely need to find a bigger inside centre quick fast.
At this stage, I wonder if it's worthwhile dumping some of the old guard for newer talent against France. Nothing to lose and might generate a bit of hunger and freshness in the team. Something drastic to focus minds and, let's face it, Foster hasn't got much to lose.
Onwards and upwards though. Bring on France.
We're going onwards (except on the pitch) but upwards?
he won't want to lose the learnings.
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@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
An assumption that marries well with the evidence. Players playing out of position. A coaching group talking about lessons that never materialise.
Assisted in no small measure by those holding a flame for certain players. Almost anyone with two eyes can see Ardie shirks the hard work come ruck time - that's been a feature of his entire career. And DMac is a fucking liability.
I could go on, but the article has already been written.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
An assumption that marries well with the evidence. Players playing out of position. A coaching group talking about lessons that never materialise.
Assisted in no small measure by those holding a flame for certain players. Almost anyone with two eyes can see Ardie shirks the hard work come ruck time - that's been a feature of his entire career. And DMac is a fucking liability.
I could go on, but the article has already been written.
@antipodean said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
Assisted in no small measure by those holding a flame for certain players.
Yeah, Fozzie has a hard on for Ardie.
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This from the poster Highlander on Roar is one of the best analyses I’ve seen of what’s ailing the ABs.
“Somewhere deep in the heart of this coaching group and squad of players is a belief that they can run and outscore anyone, no matter the circumstances, no matter what the opposition bring.
“It’s misguided, it’s entitled and it’s just downright wrong. We don’t need to follow the years old rules of earning the right to play, we are different.”
@mrdenmore said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
This from the poster Highlander on Roar is one of the best analyses I’ve seen of what’s ailing the ABs.
“Somewhere deep in the heart of this coaching group and squad of players is a belief that they can run and outscore anyone, no matter the circumstances, no matter what the opposition bring.
“It’s misguided, it’s entitled and it’s just downright wrong. We don’t need to follow the years old rules of earning the right to play, we are different.”
Well I don't think we are fitter than other top teams now in the last 20 minutes. We don't tire them out any more.
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@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
Which is perfectly in synch with what I saw.
I think one of the worst things that happened to us was the score that had us in front at half time. Gave us belief as per above, when what was needed was something else.
Probably not something we were capable of to be honest.
@majorrage said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@stargazer said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@mrdenmore That's not analysis. That's just an unproven and lazy assumption.
Which is perfectly in synch with what I saw.
I think one of the worst things that happened to us was the score that had us in front at half time. Gave us belief as per above, when what was needed was something else.
Probably not something we were capable of to be honest.
Isn't there a stat about how often the ABs lose when ahead at halftime? From memory it is very unlikely but perhaps it is changing recently.
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So that's three losses in the last five games against Ireland? We really love trying the same shit and hoping for a different result.
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
So that's three losses in the last five games against Ireland? We really love trying the same shit and hoping for a different result.
Dunno if I've been booboo'ed but I don't think think this was a case of same shit different day, as this was a different level from the Paddies.
They completely dominated, where as I don't think they did in Chicago or 2018.
I've got a rant brewing about tight forwards and coaching (given I'm a "I want Foster to succeed " guy), but I need to articulate it upside mah head first
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@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
So that's three losses in the last five games against Ireland? We really love trying the same shit and hoping for a different result.
Dunno if I've been booboo'ed but I don't think think this was a case of same shit different day, as this was a different level from the Paddies.
They completely dominated, where as I don't think they did in Chicago or 2018.
I've got a rant brewing about tight forwards and coaching (given I'm a "I want Foster to succeed " guy), but I need to articulate it upside mah head first
@booboo said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
@tim said in All Blacks v Ireland, 2021 NH Tour:
So that's three losses in the last five games against Ireland? We really love trying the same shit and hoping for a different result.
Dunno if I've been booboo'ed but I don't think think this was a case of same shit different day, as this was a different level from the Paddies.
They completely dominated, where asI don't think they did in Chicago or 2018.
I've got a rant brewing about tight forwards and coaching (given I'm a "I want Foster to succeed " guy), but I need to articulate it upside mah head first
You may eventually find these two admirable intentions
a. want Foster to succeed or
b. want the ABs to succeed
are increasingly going in opposite directions
