Ashes 2021-22
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@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
Hameed has shown ticker and sone technique before, albeit in English conditions. Given the paucity of alternatives, you can understand why he’s being persevered with.
I haven’t seen any of that although I only have a couple of tests to go from to be fair
@mn5 said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
Hameed has shown ticker and sone technique before, albeit in English conditions. Given the paucity of alternatives, you can understand why he’s being persevered with.
I haven’t seen any of that although I only have a couple of tests to go from to be fair
But yeah, this tour has been so bad for so many. Probably not the best example set by anyone really and hopefully not such a starcly (you see what I did there?) true indicator of where we are.
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David Oliver from The Daily Telegraph again:
David Warner might reasonably have expected to chase down a target, but instead he spent the afternoon on a sun-soaked outfield, teaching his three daughters how to bat. His eldest, Ivy Mae, is just six, but already she looks to have a more cultivated defensive technique than some of England’s middle order. -
@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
Seriously tho in terms of England's changes/personnel:
- Bairstow's first game in yonks so not surprised he wasn't up to it. But physically he's not fit enough to go the distance in Australian conditions unless it is a white ball, and he doesn't have to run too far...
- Similarly, Robinson - while clearly a decent bowler - looks like he's carrying about 10kg too much and fucked a hamstring because of it. Head off to fat camp if you want to play in 30C+ summers, matey.
- Burns has a technique that wouldn't be out of the place in the World Tourettes XI - not sure who he scored his runs against, but they must have been shit.
- Crawley didn't do much wrong except dare to bat while the Australian opening bowling was untouchable. He got a couple of rippers.
- Hameed looks to have a bit of class, and should be retained in light of there being no other options. He too has some flaws to work on, but that is confidence being shattered on wickets with a bit more life than he's accustomed to
- Buttler just needs to reign in his white ball instincts, and learn how to keep.
- Leach is ... just... I can't believe he's the best spinner in England.
- Wood is worth his weight in gold right now. The reason he didn't play Adelaide was apparently he breaks easy. Well son, you only bowled 20 overs here, so get your skates on for Sydney.
Jimmy Anderson must be wondering what he's done to deserve some of these clods. Root and Malan, too. Stokes has been good in moments but looks like the wheels will fall off at any moment.
They need to pick and stick for the last 2 Tests, and try to salvage some pride out of this.
Hameed
Crawley
Malan
Root
Pope
Stokes
Buttler
Wood
Broad
Anderson
Anyone who can spin - Dom Bess?Not sure where you get Hameeds ‘class’ from. The body language and technique looked fucken awful. Hard to fault the rest of your assessment though.
At the end of Australia’s innings yesterday I knew England would lose…..but on the back of Anderson’s bowling I thought they’d at least claw themselves to a lead of 100-150 before losing late today or early tomorrow.
This is a new level of ineptness. Fucken hell, how do they cope with playing two more tests ?
@mn5 said in Ashes 2021-22:
Not sure where you get Hameeds ‘class’ from. The body language and technique looked fucken awful
His start in Brisbane was actually impressive for a guy who had never played here before. I thought his technique was good but he's got some absolute jaffas since. No wonder his confidence is shot.
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England mentally weren’t there from the first ball. Anybody remember the first ball?
Nowhere worse to tour when your mentality is as off as this group. Australia exploit that snd look to literally and figuratively destroy you.
This England team is far better than so many of our journeymen team over the years but they have been set back a long long way on this tour.
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@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
@godder said in Ashes 2021-22:
Apparently the team changes didn't do much...
Oh well we got rid of that Hazlewood bloke and things are on the up and up...
Who else can you dredge up from the lower reaches of Sheffield shield to gift an Ashes test win?
@canefan said in Ashes 2021-22:
@nta said in Ashes 2021-22:
@godder said in Ashes 2021-22:
Apparently the team changes didn't do much...
Oh well we got rid of that Hazlewood bloke and things are on the up and up...
Who else can you dredge up from the lower reaches of Sheffield shield to gift an Ashes test win?
Not any opening batsmen, apparently....
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England mentally weren’t there from the first ball. Anybody remember the first ball?
Nowhere worse to tour when your mentality is as off as this group. Australia exploit that snd look to literally and figuratively destroy you.
This England team is far better than so many of our journeymen team over the years but they have been set back a long long way on this tour.
@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
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@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
I've watched enough of them in different formats to know they have some seriously good players.
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport. If you can teach a player to hit a 6, you can teach them to block a ball. IF you can teach them to minimise runs, you can teach them line and length.
It's clear they are going to lose this 5-0, but it's the next Ashes which are now the real test. Otherwise we could be the 90's all over again.
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Burns. 6 ducks in a calendar year for an opener. That, there, is the most pressing problem for England. Openers.
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
Burns. 6 ducks in a calendar year for an opener. That, there, is the most pressing problem for England. Openers.
Can see why you’re a fan of Hameed. Only four in comparison.
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@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
I fear that you are right in what you say. There seems to be something wrong in the current set up. This has been papered over by a few good results that really have been driven by Root standing tall and the odd bit of help from random others along the way.
I've watched enough of them in different formats to know they have some seriously good players.
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport. If you can teach a player to hit a 6, you can teach them to block a ball. IF you can teach them to minimise runs, you can teach them line and length.
It's clear they are going to lose this 5-0, but it's the next Ashes which are now the real test. Otherwise we could be the 90's all over again.
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
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Test cricket batting is having a solid technical base to be able to defend, against moving ball. As well as ability to score with low risk, strike rotation - with the field up, rather than a '4 men in the circle' type field.
So you get different types of white-ball specialists failings. A Jason Roy, couldn't stay in long enough v a moving ball, a red ball that can swing for 40 overs, not the painted white ball that dies after 10.
Or the Alex Hales* who could survive on his day, but with a test match field his game was block/bash, no strike rotation- meaning his test match strike rate was low 40s, slower than the nurdlers.
*credit Jarod Kimber podcast for Hales titbit.
I think you could put a Martin Guptill more towards that Hales example, better than a Roy but some of those weaknesses, but with also the problems of Hales example if it was a good day.
Then for an Anglo/ Kiwi sort of complication . You then need to add the almost totally different sport of then batting v test match quality spin on non- roads.
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@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
@kiwipie said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
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@kiwipie said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@kiwipie said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Warney is surprisingly magnanimous in commentary about the English, he was genuinely praising pretty much all of them at one point or another.
As I mentioned earlier much more so than Tubby, Slats and Heals not too long ago.
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@kiwipie said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
@catogrande said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage
People can argue as much as the want about T20 / ODI being completely different, but it's still the same sport.
The difference is that the white ball moves for a few overs at most and the pitches are designed to be roads. On a lively wicket like Melbourne was and with a red ball which continues to move around when it gets older, you need a technique to avoid nicking one. You have to leave well, you have to determine whether to go forward or back, you have to play late etc etc. Foot down the pitch and hit through the line doesn't cut it. It isn't that the one day stars couldn't learn the technique, it is just that they don't need to in order to prosper in the short form game. It is easier to adapt a great technique to a T20 (as Williamson, Conway have done) but much, much harder to go the other way.
It actually makes the career of Warner so much more remarkable. He was a one day basher who was given a go at test cricket and he made himself very good at it.
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
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@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
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@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
@canefan said in Ashes 2021-22:
@rotated said in Ashes 2021-22:
@majorrage said in Ashes 2021-22:
The point is that I think they have the talent pool to do much better than they have. Currently tho they don’t have the mentality.
I’m not an England supporter at all with cricket.
But I really can’t stand crowing Australians. Not that long ago Warne was calling India easily the best team in the world …. After they’d beaten England. Oh, and lost to us a month earlier.
Agree.
They are in opener hell and for that there isn't really an obvious way out - so I kind of give them a pass on that (even though selections have been dubious there)
But between Malan, Morgan, Buttler, Ballance, Bairstow, Vince, Pope and Crawley it's just bizarre they haven't been able to produce three steady test performers going into this series.
Were they underdone going into the series like we were? A test series in Australia is hard enough as it is without some decent warmup games
Yes they were, although that was partly if their own making, having chosen to play little red ball cricket and rotate the squad that was playing red ball.
