All Blacks 2022
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@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B you may have missed the memo, unless I misunderstood the posts from a couple of days ago, I think Fakatava has been
cleared for the ABs this yearsuccessfully poachedFTFY
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B you may have missed the memo, unless I misunderstood the posts from a couple of days ago, I think Fakatava has been
cleared for the ABs this yearsuccessfully poachedFTFY
What's your definition of poaching?
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@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Will Jordan is a superb attacking player, but I think is competing with Reece for the right wing spot.
Jordie has to be a lock for 15, unless he's shoehorned into 12. Jordan is awesome going forward, but the reality is that there is a lot more space at Super than in Tests, and kicking and defence is far more important at 15. I love him in the side at 14, but not convinced about him as a front line 15 yet. If he's going to be there at the RWC (and I suspect Jordie has that slot right now), then he needs to be playing there, to a high level, right now.
I take a somewhat different perspective in that because there's less space and opportunities in Test level rugby, you want players most capable of creating and taking advantage.
The alternative is to select plodders. ,
there's a difference though. Jordie is really solid in attack, but not as good as Jordan. The focus though is JB is much better at kicking and defence. And not conceding points or territory is really important at test level.
So yeah, there's a big gap between Jordan, Jordie and George
Why did you bring George back into the picture? If he and Ennor disappear this year we will be part of the way to a solution
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@nzzp said in All Blacks 2022:
Will Jordan is a superb attacking player, but I think is competing with Reece for the right wing spot.
Jordie has to be a lock for 15, unless he's shoehorned into 12. Jordan is awesome going forward, but the reality is that there is a lot more space at Super than in Tests, and kicking and defence is far more important at 15. I love him in the side at 14, but not convinced about him as a front line 15 yet. If he's going to be there at the RWC (and I suspect Jordie has that slot right now), then he needs to be playing there, to a high level, right now.
I take a somewhat different perspective in that because there's less space and opportunities in Test level rugby, you want players most capable of creating and taking advantage.
The alternative is to select plodders. ,
there's a difference though. Jordie is really solid in attack, but not as good as Jordan. The focus though is JB is much better at kicking and defence. And not conceding points or territory is really important at test level.
So yeah, there's a big gap between Jordan, Jordie and George
Why did you bring George back into the picture? If he and Ennor disappear this year we will be part of the way to a solution
To contrast with the plodders
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B you may have missed the memo, unless I misunderstood the posts from a couple of days ago, I think Fakatava has been
cleared for the ABs this yearsuccessfully poachedFTFY
What's your definition of poaching?
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B you may have missed the memo, unless I misunderstood the posts from a couple of days ago, I think Fakatava has been
cleared for the ABs this yearsuccessfully poachedFTFY
What's your definition of poaching?
Depends how outraged Stephen Jones is and whether he writes an article about it.
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@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B you may have missed the memo, unless I misunderstood the posts from a couple of days ago, I think Fakatava has been
cleared for the ABs this yearsuccessfully poachedFTFY
What's your definition of poaching?
@Stargazer said in All Blacks 2022:
@mariner4life said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B you may have missed the memo, unless I misunderstood the posts from a couple of days ago, I think Fakatava has been
cleared for the ABs this yearsuccessfully poachedFTFY
What's your definition of poaching?
Tokoroa's lost rugby stars
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@Crazy-Horse I have missed that memo!!! I googled him a few days ago and only found the "discussions with world rugby".
Good news - though I hope the ABs legal team read the communique carefully, because we don't want to be another Spain!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse I have missed that memo!!! I googled him a few days ago and only found the "discussions with world rugby".
Good news - though I hope the ABs legal team read the communique carefully, because we don't want to be another Spain!
I don't share your pessimism about 9s
Azza still has life in him yet but, most valuable is that he has experience (and still has a fast pass)
With Fakatava and possibly Ratima down the track we have contrast to shake things up off the bench post TJP.
With the Ginga and Weber we have the quick to the ruck distributors that cover injury to Smith.I would like it if by the end of the year we have a one-two punch going with Smith (or Ginga/Weber) and Fakatava
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse I have missed that memo!!! I googled him a few days ago and only found the "discussions with world rugby".
Good news - though I hope the ABs legal team read the communique carefully, because we don't want to be another Spain!
I don't share your pessimism about 9s
Azza still has life in him yet but, most valuable is that he has experience (and still has a fast pass)
With Fakatava and possibly Ratima down the track we have contrast to shake things up off the bench post TJP.
With the Ginga and Weber we have the quick to the ruck distributors that cover injury to Smith.I would like it if by the end of the year we have a one-two punch going with Smith (or Ginga/Weber) and Fakatava
@Crucial I think Christie has to have the inside running.
Sure he makes some mistakes still, but his workrate is huge, he makes alot of cover tackles...for me his improvement on last year is huge (I expect regular starts helping massively, coupled with his time in black)
I think it was one of the tries vs the Reds following a big upfield surge, where he had several options of people to hit and the vision he showed to hit the right man which opened more space up for a try in the corner was exactly what you want from your 9, think he had a similar hand in the superb try Telea got vs the Rebels.
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@Crucial I think Christie has to have the inside running.
Sure he makes some mistakes still, but his workrate is huge, he makes alot of cover tackles...for me his improvement on last year is huge (I expect regular starts helping massively, coupled with his time in black)
I think it was one of the tries vs the Reds following a big upfield surge, where he had several options of people to hit and the vision he showed to hit the right man which opened more space up for a try in the corner was exactly what you want from your 9, think he had a similar hand in the superb try Telea got vs the Rebels.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crucial I think Christie has to have the inside running.
Sure he makes some mistakes still, but his workrate is huge, he makes alot of cover tackles...for me his improvement on last year is off the charts (I expect regular starts helping massively, coupled with his time in black)
I think it was one of the tries vs the Reds following a big upfield surge, where he had several options of people to hit and the vision he showed to hit the right man which opened more space up for a try in the corner was exactly what you want from your 9, think he had a similar hand in the superb try Telea got vs the Rebels.
I dont disagree that he has really shown out but the same can be said of Fakatava. Both are very good options as reserve IMO but if Smith was unavailable I would be starting Christie with Fakatava as impact. He just brings a new level of energy to a side when he comes on.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
@Crazy-Horse I have missed that memo!!! I googled him a few days ago and only found the "discussions with world rugby".
Good news - though I hope the ABs legal team read the communique carefully, because we don't want to be another Spain!
I don't share your pessimism about 9s
Azza still has life in him yet but, most valuable is that he has experience (and still has a fast pass)
With Fakatava and possibly Ratima down the track we have contrast to shake things up off the bench post TJP.
With the Ginga and Weber we have the quick to the ruck distributors that cover injury to Smith.I would like it if by the end of the year we have a one-two punch going with Smith (or Ginga/Weber) and Fakatava
@Crucial Yeah - I'm a bit pessimistic, because there's a yawning experience gap behind Smith to Christie, whose biggest test was off the bench vs Argentina.
Azza is the only guy who's guaranteed to be picked vs Ireland - with TJ and Weber both still in the mix along with Christie and Fakatava. Fozzie seems likely to me to hedge his bets with at least one more experienced guy alongside one newbie.
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Why the fuck have we all of a sudden started calling Smith Azza? Did I miss NZ becoming part of Oz?
I’m not sure if Christie has the inside running as straight up number 2, AB coaches are generally pretty loyal so wouldn’t be surprised if Weber and TJ are still ranked higher.
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Why the fuck have we all of a sudden started calling Smith Azza? Did I miss NZ becoming part of Oz?
I’m not sure if Christie has the inside running as straight up number 2, AB coaches are generally pretty loyal so wouldn’t be surprised if Weber and TJ are still ranked higher.
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I think that the approach is fair enough (ducks) in that you don't be the best by doing things the same way as everyone else and you must also play the way that comes naturally to make the most of instinctive brilliance.
What hasn't been shown is an indication that the current tactical approach will work. You still have to stop the opposition playing to their strengths as well. Currently we are almost encouraging other teams to play the way they want which means that if they have an 'on song' day with few mistakes it makes life very tough for us.
We know that NZ teams are the best (and thrive off) turnover ball. You dont get much turnover ball with rush defence. You just get endless phases and tackling until you get a scrum or the ball is kicked and the process starts over again.
What that means though is that teams that play that way are very well drilled in endless recycling then kicking and if you let them get a roll on moving forward they can eat metres and you are more likely to give away a penalty for offside or for desperately attacking the ball at a breakdown.
So it's a hard balance to find. You want turnover opportunities but the risk/reward in trying to isolate a ball carrier is high.
I don't want us to play like England/Ireland/France/SA which is stalemate rugby in a sense, waiting for a chance to pull the trigger. However trying to create those chances is also fraught with danger.
If I got to set a 'way of playing' with our resources and instincts I would probably look back to move forward and look to disrupt these very robotic defensive systems with slick plays, angled running from backs and forwards, direction switches (god I hate it when we continually hammer one side) etc. Basically smart rugby that forces defenses to make decisions
When on defence we need to set traps rather than just be passive. Mix things up.Now where do I collect my big salary?
@Crucial said in All Blacks 2022:
We know that NZ teams are the best (and thrive off) turnover ball. You dont get much turnover ball with rush defence. You just get endless phases and tackling until you get a scrum or the ball is kicked and the process starts over again.
Is this correct? I'm not saying it isn't (I've never given it much thought, TBH), but it does seem a little counterintuitive, given the rush defence (presumably) generally leads to more handling errors, but also forces the attacking team to go backwards to win their own ruck ball, effectively increasing the distance their cleaners are required to cover to the breakdown. I assume it also leads to players getting isolated more often in midfield further out from their cleaners.
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@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
or can't employ them
I think that is more the issue...there were periods when our forwards have done well, then reverted to this passive style...so IMO it is more game plan or execution than skills or ability.
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants said in All Blacks 2022:
or can't employ them
I think that is more the issue...there were periods when our forwards have done well, then reverted to this passive style...so IMO it is more game plan or execution than skills or ability.
I'd add to that there's a head-space thing going on and that's been growing since 2016/7 - e.g. lack of steadiness under pressure. Signs it was getting better last year but those seemed to vanish on the EOYT and poss. not helped by changes to captaincy.
Which brings me to a conundrum: do we pick the best 6/7/8 combination and then choose a captain? Or do we give Sam the 7 slot even though Dalton P is a possibly better 7?
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In the backs, really, the only major problem is 2nd five.
For Ireland, assuming everyone is fit, then I'd expect Foster to pick:
9-Smith; 10-Beauden; 11-Reece; 12-????; 13-Ioane; 14-Jordan; 15-Jordie.
21-Probably Christie; 22-Moúnga; 23-a midfielder.
Halfback - we have a problem if Smith gets injured or suddenly hits his use-by date. We don't have a real gun behind him - and if Christie has to start, we've got to use TJP or Weber. In my view, Fakatava is most likely to be Smith's long-run successor, but right now we're at the mercy of World Rugby deciding we can have him this year.
First five - Unlike many, I'm pretty happy with either Beaudy or Richie. I think they're both world class. Sure, they've both got weaknesses, but you go a long way to find a first five who doesn't (unless you live in Leeston). We can win with either and having both is a luxury.
Midfield - an initial problem is that I don't clearly know who Fozzie thinks are second fives and who are centres. I don't really understand why he went from using 12. ALB; 13. Goodhue in 2019 to 12. Goodhue; 13. ALB in 2020. The former seemed to work significantly better to me. But now we've had 2021 without JG and are having 2022 without ALB; so we're still not learning the full story about Fozzie's plans. Now we've got a bunch of potential 2nd five options, who are either untried or haven't nailed the position; and Rieko and Goodhue who both seem like good options to play centre - but, still have a bit to prove at test level. And maybe Jack is Fozzie's second-five...
The wing and fullback options could be pretty settled, as long as Fozzie doesn't need Jordie to play second five. I'm not among those who thinks Will Jordan needs to be shifted from 14. He was plenty dangerous enough from there last year. And there's always dangers in disturbing what is settled - you can create more problems than you solve. That being said, it is quite possible that Jordie is our best option to play second five. Standing in the tackle, freeing his arms like Graeme West and popping offloads to our speedy outside backs - Yes boy, Yes!!!
All of that being said, by far the bigger problems are in the forwards!!!
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Midfield - an initial problem is that I don't clearly know who Fozzie thinks are second fives and who are centres. I don't really understand why he went from using 12. ALB; 13. Goodhue in 2019 to 12. Goodhue; 13. ALB in 2020. The former seemed to work significantly better to me. But now we've had 2021 without JG and are having 2022 without ALB; so we're still not learning the full story about Fozzie's plans. Now we've got a bunch of potential 2nd five options, who are either untried or haven't nailed the position; and Rieko and Goodhue who both seem like good options to play centre - but, still have a bit to prove at test level. And maybe Jack is Fozzie's second-five...
I think the only thing you've missed is....(grimace)....they have shown a liking for Ennor at centre. It won't surprise me in the least if they go back to him (even over Ioane). Sad Face.
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@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Midfield - an initial problem is that I don't clearly know who Fozzie thinks are second fives and who are centres. I don't really understand why he went from using 12. ALB; 13. Goodhue in 2019 to 12. Goodhue; 13. ALB in 2020. The former seemed to work significantly better to me. But now we've had 2021 without JG and are having 2022 without ALB; so we're still not learning the full story about Fozzie's plans. Now we've got a bunch of potential 2nd five options, who are either untried or haven't nailed the position; and Rieko and Goodhue who both seem like good options to play centre - but, still have a bit to prove at test level. And maybe Jack is Fozzie's second-five...
I think the only thing you've missed is....(grimace)....they have shown a liking for Ennor at centre. It won't surprise me in the least if they go back to him (even over Ioane). Sad Face.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Midfield - an initial problem is that I don't clearly know who Fozzie thinks are second fives and who are centres. I don't really understand why he went from using 12. ALB; 13. Goodhue in 2019 to 12. Goodhue; 13. ALB in 2020. The former seemed to work significantly better to me. But now we've had 2021 without JG and are having 2022 without ALB; so we're still not learning the full story about Fozzie's plans. Now we've got a bunch of potential 2nd five options, who are either untried or haven't nailed the position; and Rieko and Goodhue who both seem like good options to play centre - but, still have a bit to prove at test level. And maybe Jack is Fozzie's second-five...
I think the only thing you've missed is....(grimace)....they have shown a liking for Ennor at centre. It won't surprise me in the least if they go back to him (even over Ioane). Sad Face.
I fucking hope not. Reiko is both in good form and has Test experience so I think he's nailed on for 13 as he's the safest option. My guess is Fozzie will go for experience and if Goodhue goes OK in SRP, it's be between him and QT for 12 with PUJ poss. as cover.
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Chris-B said in All Blacks 2022:
Midfield - an initial problem is that I don't clearly know who Fozzie thinks are second fives and who are centres. I don't really understand why he went from using 12. ALB; 13. Goodhue in 2019 to 12. Goodhue; 13. ALB in 2020. The former seemed to work significantly better to me. But now we've had 2021 without JG and are having 2022 without ALB; so we're still not learning the full story about Fozzie's plans. Now we've got a bunch of potential 2nd five options, who are either untried or haven't nailed the position; and Rieko and Goodhue who both seem like good options to play centre - but, still have a bit to prove at test level. And maybe Jack is Fozzie's second-five...
I think the only thing you've missed is....(grimace)....they have shown a liking for Ennor at centre. It won't surprise me in the least if they go back to him (even over Ioane). Sad Face.
I fucking hope not. Reiko is both in good form and has Test experience so I think he's nailed on for 13 as he's the safest option. My guess is Fozzie will go for experience and if Goodhue goes OK in SRP, it's be between him and QT for 12 with PUJ poss. as cover.
@Victor-Meldrew oh I fucken hope not too, but he has form...
I'd take TUJ over his brother this year.
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@Victor-Meldrew oh I fucken hope not too, but he has form...
I'd take TUJ over his brother this year.
@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew oh I fucken hope not too, but he has form...
I'd take TUJ over his brother this year.
Only cos that twat Holland doesn't play PUJ, who knows if he's better?
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@Bones said in All Blacks 2022:
@Victor-Meldrew oh I fucken hope not too, but he has form...
I'd take TUJ over his brother this year.
Only cos that twat Holland doesn't play PUJ, who knows if he's better?
@Machpants maybe there's a reason...we never know what goes on at training, during the week etc.
A good coach should be able to work past issues like that or if there are personality clashes.
If he is that good, why is he continually overlooked?
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@Machpants maybe there's a reason...we never know what goes on at training, during the week etc.
A good coach should be able to work past issues like that or if there are personality clashes.
If he is that good, why is he continually overlooked?
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks 2022:
@Machpants maybe there's a reason...we never know what goes on at training, during the week etc.
A good coach should be able to work past issues like that or if there are personality clashes.
If he is that good, why is he continually overlooked?
I guess we're lucky that Holland is not posting Princep in the midfield?
I call bollocks as Holland has favourites, ones that make no sense. PUJ was awesome last year when he got game time, now I don't know. I do know that Holland does pick plodding unflushables, so I'm blaming Holland's favouritism, rather than PUJs form
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@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
I think Jordie at 15 makes the most sense and QT or Goodhue at 12. In saying that if RTS keeps performing a BB, RTS, RI combo would work well considering they already play together.
What are QT's tackle stats? You can't carry Mo'unga and him in the important 10-12 channel. That's a recipe for disaster.
@antipodean said in All Blacks 2022:
@chimoaus said in All Blacks 2022:
I think Jordie at 15 makes the most sense and QT or Goodhue at 12. In saying that if RTS keeps performing a BB, RTS, RI combo would work well considering they already play together.
What are QT's tackle stats? You can't carry Mo'unga and him in the important 10-12 channel. That's a recipe for disaster.
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