All Blacks XV 2022
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@SBW1 born in NZ...playing NPC and super rugby in NZ...I'm not saying pick him, but there is zero reason not to if he is good enough
Nope there is an agreement that NZR won't pick NZ qual player's from MP. He'd have to leave for another franchise, MP s effectively not an NZ SR franchise, it just plays home games in NZ
@Machpants said in All Blacks XV:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@SBW1 born in NZ...playing NPC and super rugby in NZ...I'm not saying pick him, but there is zero reason not to if he is good enough
Nope there is an agreement that NZR won't pick NZ qual player's from MP. He'd have to leave for another franchise, MP s effectively not an NZ SR franchise, it just plays home games in NZ
Really, I thought the opposite was true (no impact on NZ eligibility) to encourage some younger guys to turn out for MP to strengthen them?
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@Machpants said in All Blacks XV:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@SBW1 born in NZ...playing NPC and super rugby in NZ...I'm not saying pick him, but there is zero reason not to if he is good enough
Nope there is an agreement that NZR won't pick NZ qual player's from MP. He'd have to leave for another franchise, MP s effectively not an NZ SR franchise, it just plays home games in NZ
Really, I thought the opposite was true (no impact on NZ eligibility) to encourage some younger guys to turn out for MP to strengthen them?
@Nepia Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).
So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.
By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.
I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?
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So is the AB XV officially named as our second team? Be a bit disingenuous but if not, Aumua could still be selected.
@Bones The situation is a bit ambiguous. NZR has stated that the ABs XV are our "next senior XV" team like the Junior ABs were in the past, but - unlike the Junior ABs - has not designated it as such under the World Rugby Regulations (which would mean that players are captured by playing for this team). To the contrary, NZR has said multiple times that players will not be captured by the ABs XV. Legally, only the official designation under WR Regs is relevant.
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@Bones The situation is a bit ambiguous. NZR has stated that the ABs XV are our "next senior XV" team like the Junior ABs were in the past, but - unlike the Junior ABs - has not designated it as such under the World Rugby Regulations (which would mean that players are captured by playing for this team). To the contrary, NZR has said multiple times that players will not be captured by the ABs XV. Legally, only the official designation under WR Regs is relevant.
@Stargazer oooh that could make it juicy eh. Technically fine to select him, but a bit of a middle finger from NZR if they do.
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@Nepia Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).
So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.
By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.
I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?
@Stargazer I wonder if Danny didn't realise he was signing up to Samoa when he signed with MP.
I prefer the way I thought it was running.
@Bones said in All Blacks XV:
@Stargazer oooh that could make it juicy eh. Technically fine to select him, but a bit of a middle finger from NZR if they do.
Aren't they just middle fingering themselves as they basically organise and fund the team and made the agreement, despite its a Pasifika team?
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@Stargazer I wonder if Danny didn't realise he was signing up to Samoa when he signed with MP.
I prefer the way I thought it was running.
@Bones said in All Blacks XV:
@Stargazer oooh that could make it juicy eh. Technically fine to select him, but a bit of a middle finger from NZR if they do.
Aren't they just middle fingering themselves as they basically organise and fund the team and made the agreement, despite its a Pasifika team?
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Reading some of the names being thrown around, we sure this isn’t an old Heartland XV tour…
Burke, McClutchie, Morgan, Plummer aren’t there.
Ioane seems so hot and cold.
If Bernard Foley is getting a test for the Wallabies we should get Colin Slade or Aaron Cruden a run.
@ACT-Crusader Sladey would do a job. No doubt.
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@Frye Why would NZR want to develop a player at the highest level, who could then go on and play for another country?
@Stargazer there's nothing wrong with helping to develop an MP player. Or helping to develop someone playing for a Pacific nation. Potentially helping develop LA into a marquee player for MP is good for Super rugby, it gives the comp more credibility.
Also, if he goes really well then maybe a conversation with him about choosing NZ.
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I thought things along the same lines as @nepia given NZR funded the team last year, there would be a few with dual eligibility to try and improve the strength of MP without hindering players aspirations.
Obviously I was wrong.
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@Nepia Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).
So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.
By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.
I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?
@Stargazer said in All Blacks XV:
@Nepia Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).
So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.
By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.
I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?
This. It's a deal that NZR has signed as part of MP set up.
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If it’s the same comment, the commentator was talking about both centres. Then said the ABs were interested in ‘him’ and that he narrowly missed out on the first squad of the year. It was confusing but I think the ‘him’ was Nankivell
@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
If it’s the same comment, the commentator was talking about both centres. Then said the ABs were interested in ‘him’ and that he narrowly missed out on the first squad of the year. It was confusing but I think the ‘him’ was Nankivell
I rewatched the game, or at least had it on in the background to listen to the commentary. It didn't take long. Three minutes and 50 seconds in during a stop in play for a scrum Wilson talks about Nankivell "one of those players getting consistent game time in 2022, has managed to stay healthy I touch wood on that because he has suffered a number injuries...this midfield combination of Nankivell and Aumua they can have an impact on the game..." Vision at this moment switches to Aumua. Wilson says "Look at this guy. Super rugby we saw he's some sort of player and there were whispers at the back end of Super Rugby that maybe he was in the All Black picture."
I stand by my interpretation that Wilson was talking about Aumua when it came to AB whispers. But I agree it's ambiguous so I am not insisting I am right. If anyone else can be bothered checking the replay (starts 3 mins 50 secs into the game) I would be interested in their opinion. I would have thought Aumua was miles away from selection, but I never watched him with my selector's hat on.
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I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:
I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
Not sure if you been watching NPC, but in the Waikato games I have seen it looks like poor old Sullivan's form has fallen off a cliff. On the weekend it seemed everything the poor bastard touched turn to shit. Hope he turns it around because he looked like he had a touch of class about him during the Super season.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:
I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
Not sure if you been watching NPC, but in the Waikato games I have seen it looks like poor old Sullivan's form has fallen off a cliff. On the weekend it seemed everything the poor bastard touched turn to shit. Hope he turns it around because he looked like he had a touch of class about him during the Super season.
His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
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His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
With Goodhue's injury concerns, I think a player who can play 12/13 relatively well (and cover wing) would be really nice to have in the team.
I would look at PUJ for that role (they may prefer Nankivell), and would want to see Tug in this team as well, if fit. Alongside them, Sullivan looks a good?
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
It will be interesting to see how they use the team.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
With Goodhue's injury concerns, I think a player who can play 12/13 relatively well (and cover wing) would be really nice to have in the team.
I would look at PUJ for that role (they may prefer Nankivell), and would want to see Tug in this team as well, if fit. Alongside them, Sullivan looks a good?
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
It will be interesting to see how they use the team.
