All Blacks XV 2022
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@Frye Why would NZR want to develop a player at the highest level, who could then go on and play for another country?
@Stargazer there's nothing wrong with helping to develop an MP player. Or helping to develop someone playing for a Pacific nation. Potentially helping develop LA into a marquee player for MP is good for Super rugby, it gives the comp more credibility.
Also, if he goes really well then maybe a conversation with him about choosing NZ.
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I thought things along the same lines as @nepia given NZR funded the team last year, there would be a few with dual eligibility to try and improve the strength of MP without hindering players aspirations.
Obviously I was wrong.
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@Nepia Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).
So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.
By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.
I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?
@Stargazer said in All Blacks XV:
@Nepia Nope, it has been reported that there is an agreement not to pick ABs/Wallabies eligible players from MP. Obviously, it only applies to players who are actually eligible to play for the Pacific Islands, not players who are still in their stand-down period of 3 years if they are already NZ/OZ capped and want to change country, or players who can not qualify for the Islands, because they have no (grand)parents born in the Islands and can't meet the residency requirement either (like McClutchie).
So, in the case of Levi Aumua, it would be against the agreement to name him in the All Blacks XV, because he's under contract with MP for 2023.
By the way, it has also been reported that MP can sign up to 20% of players that are not eligible for the Islands, but despite that, there was some opposition when they signed McClutchie, because he's not Island eligible.
I'd love to know what is actually in players' contracts. Do they have to sign a clause in which they declare for their country of birth/heritage - if that's one of the PIs - for the duration of their contract? Or do they have to agree to a clause not to accept an invitation from the ABs for the duration of their contract (= not the same thing)? Or is this just an agreement between NZR, RA and the PI Unions?
This. It's a deal that NZR has signed as part of MP set up.
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If it’s the same comment, the commentator was talking about both centres. Then said the ABs were interested in ‘him’ and that he narrowly missed out on the first squad of the year. It was confusing but I think the ‘him’ was Nankivell
@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
If it’s the same comment, the commentator was talking about both centres. Then said the ABs were interested in ‘him’ and that he narrowly missed out on the first squad of the year. It was confusing but I think the ‘him’ was Nankivell
I rewatched the game, or at least had it on in the background to listen to the commentary. It didn't take long. Three minutes and 50 seconds in during a stop in play for a scrum Wilson talks about Nankivell "one of those players getting consistent game time in 2022, has managed to stay healthy I touch wood on that because he has suffered a number injuries...this midfield combination of Nankivell and Aumua they can have an impact on the game..." Vision at this moment switches to Aumua. Wilson says "Look at this guy. Super rugby we saw he's some sort of player and there were whispers at the back end of Super Rugby that maybe he was in the All Black picture."
I stand by my interpretation that Wilson was talking about Aumua when it came to AB whispers. But I agree it's ambiguous so I am not insisting I am right. If anyone else can be bothered checking the replay (starts 3 mins 50 secs into the game) I would be interested in their opinion. I would have thought Aumua was miles away from selection, but I never watched him with my selector's hat on.
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I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:
I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
Not sure if you been watching NPC, but in the Waikato games I have seen it looks like poor old Sullivan's form has fallen off a cliff. On the weekend it seemed everything the poor bastard touched turn to shit. Hope he turns it around because he looked like he had a touch of class about him during the Super season.
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@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:
I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
Not sure if you been watching NPC, but in the Waikato games I have seen it looks like poor old Sullivan's form has fallen off a cliff. On the weekend it seemed everything the poor bastard touched turn to shit. Hope he turns it around because he looked like he had a touch of class about him during the Super season.
His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
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His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
With Goodhue's injury concerns, I think a player who can play 12/13 relatively well (and cover wing) would be really nice to have in the team.
I would look at PUJ for that role (they may prefer Nankivell), and would want to see Tug in this team as well, if fit. Alongside them, Sullivan looks a good?
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
It will be interesting to see how they use the team.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
With Goodhue's injury concerns, I think a player who can play 12/13 relatively well (and cover wing) would be really nice to have in the team.
I would look at PUJ for that role (they may prefer Nankivell), and would want to see Tug in this team as well, if fit. Alongside them, Sullivan looks a good?
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
It will be interesting to see how they use the team.
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@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
I assume that will happen and he'll be under instructions to use a variety of kicks
@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
I assume that will happen and he'll be under instructions to use a variety of kicks
An RTS /PUJ midfield doesn't look terrible.
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@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
I assume that will happen and he'll be under instructions to use a variety of kicks
An RTS /PUJ midfield doesn't look terrible.
@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 said in All Blacks XV:
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
I assume that will happen and he'll be under instructions to use a variety of kicks
An RTS /PUJ midfield doesn't look terrible.
The right place to try it out
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@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
His form disappeared as soon as SR ended. He struggled a bit for the Maori too. It's the first season he's had with this volume of rugby. He'll probably come right next year
For the midfield I think we should be picking people who fit the same profile as the full AB side. So a 12 with a strong kicking game (like Havili/JB) and a centre with the pace of a winger
Guys like Sullivan and PUJ would've been interesting in the Ioane role.. but injuries and form have changed that
With Goodhue's injury concerns, I think a player who can play 12/13 relatively well (and cover wing) would be really nice to have in the team.
I would look at PUJ for that role (they may prefer Nankivell), and would want to see Tug in this team as well, if fit. Alongside them, Sullivan looks a good?
One tricky point could be that they may want to use these games to get a lot of games into RTS.
It will be interesting to see how they use the team.
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@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
Unfortunately for Goodhue, injury has wrecked his career. Now with Jordie a legit option at 12 he falls further behind. 12 is probably the most log-jammed of positions - Jordie, Havili, ALB, RTS, Tupaea, Goodhue, PUJ, TUJ, Nankivell in that order if all are injury free.
Goodhue seems to have gone down the size route, weighing in at 105KG at the moment. I don't think we'll see him getting any quicker or more agile given his knee injuries.
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@Frye Why would NZR want to develop a player at the highest level, who could then go on and play for another country?
@Stargazer said in All Blacks XV:
@Frye Why would NZR want to develop a coach at the highest level, who could then go on and coach for another country?
FIFY as an example of yes they could...
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@ARHS said in All Blacks XV:
I think they both lack some of the high end subtleties and skills needed for international level but show bursts of strong play at lower level. TUJ Procter and Sullivan seem to have a higher ceiling.
Not sure if you been watching NPC, but in the Waikato games I have seen it looks like poor old Sullivan's form has fallen off a cliff. On the weekend it seemed everything the poor bastard touched turn to shit. Hope he turns it around because he looked like he had a touch of class about him during the Super season.
@Crazy-Horse Agreed totally. Looked good in super. Not since
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@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
Unfortunately for Goodhue, injury has wrecked his career. Now with Jordie a legit option at 12 he falls further behind. 12 is probably the most log-jammed of positions - Jordie, Havili, ALB, RTS, Tupaea, Goodhue, PUJ, TUJ, Nankivell in that order if all are injury free.
Goodhue seems to have gone down the size route, weighing in at 105KG at the moment. I don't think we'll see him getting any quicker or more agile given his knee injuries.
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks XV:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
Unfortunately for Goodhue, injury has wrecked his career. Now with Jordie a legit option at 12 he falls further behind. 12 is probably the most log-jammed of positions - Jordie, Havili, ALB, RTS, Tupaea, Goodhue, PUJ, TUJ, Nankivell in that order if all are injury free.
Goodhue seems to have gone down the size route, weighing in at 105KG at the moment. I don't think we'll see him getting any quicker or more agile given his knee injuries.
You sure not TUJ in front of PUJ unless form fell off? Isn't PUJ more a 13?
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@TheMojoman said in All Blacks XV:
@taniwharugby said in All Blacks XV:
@gt12 unless Goodhue can find a yard or 2 of pace, which is unlikely given his injury history, I think International rugby may have passed him by, which is a shame as he has a good rugby brain..
Unfortunately for Goodhue, injury has wrecked his career. Now with Jordie a legit option at 12 he falls further behind. 12 is probably the most log-jammed of positions - Jordie, Havili, ALB, RTS, Tupaea, Goodhue, PUJ, TUJ, Nankivell in that order if all are injury free.
Goodhue seems to have gone down the size route, weighing in at 105KG at the moment. I don't think we'll see him getting any quicker or more agile given his knee injuries.
You sure not TUJ in front of PUJ unless form fell off? Isn't PUJ more a 13?
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@Duluth said in All Blacks XV:
If it’s the same comment, the commentator was talking about both centres. Then said the ABs were interested in ‘him’ and that he narrowly missed out on the first squad of the year. It was confusing but I think the ‘him’ was Nankivell
I rewatched the game, or at least had it on in the background to listen to the commentary. It didn't take long. Three minutes and 50 seconds in during a stop in play for a scrum Wilson talks about Nankivell "one of those players getting consistent game time in 2022, has managed to stay healthy I touch wood on that because he has suffered a number injuries...this midfield combination of Nankivell and Aumua they can have an impact on the game..." Vision at this moment switches to Aumua. Wilson says "Look at this guy. Super rugby we saw he's some sort of player and there were whispers at the back end of Super Rugby that maybe he was in the All Black picture."
I stand by my interpretation that Wilson was talking about Aumua when it came to AB whispers. But I agree it's ambiguous so I am not insisting I am right. If anyone else can be bothered checking the replay (starts 3 mins 50 secs into the game) I would be interested in their opinion. I would have thought Aumua was miles away from selection, but I never watched him with my selector's hat on.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks XV:
Wilson says "Look at this guy. Super rugby we saw he's some sort of player and there were whispers at the back end of Super Rugby that maybe he was in the All Black picture."
I stand by my interpretation that Wilson was talking about Aumua when it came to AB whispers. But I agree it's ambiguous so I am not insisting I am right.
Sounds like you might be right. In which case, it will be interesting to see what evolves with Levi.
Interestingly, he's eligible for all of NZ, Fiji and Samoa (according to Wiki).
I'd like to see how he would go for the AB XV -- he's something different to anything else we have at present.
