All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test
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@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@No-Quarter said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Victor-Meldrew said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
What’s up with Akira? Sore foot or has he been Hansen’d?
Not ideal but given the circumstances the best we have. The Irish are going to hard at our line out and we’ll go hard at their breakdown. Under the roof it will hopefully be a fast game where our small loose trio will hopefully shine.
We have cover on the bench with some big bodies in PGS and Patty so not so worried there. In Patty’s case he may be under done after playing touch rugby in Japan for a season.
AB’s by 10+
Foster said he was pretty much ready to go, but they wanted to get rid of the niggle. Same boat for Nepo and to a lessor extend DH.
Everytime he's talked about 6 he's mentioned Akira and Dalton, so not been Hansen'd just yet. Certainly will have to deliver with SB and Dalton being tried at 6, but that's want we wan; competition within the squad.
Foster's handling of Akira has been way better than Hansen and I assume he's worked closely with Panadol on development.
Yeah, that's one of the only positives for Foster, he's actually given Akira a decent go. I really don't know what Hansen had against Akira
This again?
It was attitude, pure and simple. He didn't show the right attitude to Hansen and he admits himself that he was in a strange place mentally (both cause and effect).
Possibly is was a perception thing but a coach will never pick someone who they think may be lazy, entitled or out of tune with the others in the squad.
The ball was in Akira's court and he worked on that and came back into the fold.
Some blame may be in Hansen's court for holding a bit of a grudge if he felt let down but IMO the situation was similar to the Mains/Lomu oneThis again, again?
He was never lazy, and there were no problems with his attitude. Over time, the way he was treated (You could call it being Luatua'd) did have an effect on his confidence, to the point he was no longer enjoying rugby. That lead to his one poor season at NPC.
Before that he was regularly topping game stats for the Blues, had a great work ethic in a struggling team (at the time), and was being voted the player's player at the Blues.
I'm glad Coventry, then Foster, treated him with a bit more class than Hansen so we didn't lose a great talent.
I fully admit that I have no idea what went on and am only guessing but coaches don't get pissy with players without reason. Whether it's because he pissed in Hansen's cornflakes, called him fat, didn't listen to him or whatever there would have been a reason.
I know you always support him with stats but the reason this argument comes up time and time again is that there are obvious times in games where he looks to be 'lazy'. Either getting up slowly, jogging back etc. The nature of his position means a lot of unseen work (the Reuben Thorne syndrome) and it's great that stats will highlight that work but to many of us just watching the game he shows out for the poor things rather than the good. -
@Duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I fully admit that I have no idea
Finally
should probably go under "The Silver Fern" header......
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@Duluth said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Crucial said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
I fully admit that I have no idea
Finally
Nice edit.
Apt though and at least I admit it
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@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Time for wild prediction of the week.
Ireland to win by 3.
It’ll be much closer for sure
im going the other way, under the roof, dry and fast track...AB's by 25
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Time for wild prediction of the week.
Ireland to win by 3.
It’ll be much closer for sure
im going the other way, under the roof, dry and fast track...AB's by 25
Me too but maybe not 25. Closer to 15.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
No way the ABs would do that, maybe the letter of the rules, but it is bloody stupid for a 36 year old who would have had many knocks over the years.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
No way the ABs would do that, maybe the letter of the rules, but it is bloody stupid for a 36 year old who would have had many knocks over the years.
@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
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@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
@Tim and the fact Whitelock cant play due to delayed symptoms has highlighted the issue more.
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@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
and its not like its a RWC playoff or something...not that that would even be a good reason to risk someones health
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@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
Actually I don't think it irresponsible if he didn't have concussion, which it seems he didn't, hell even as AB supporter I think Ireland would have appeared to done evryting to WR protocols, and can understand them as often a Dr can't make a definitive call on Concussion in 15 minutes! Take Sam W showed his symptoms next day. And here are how protocols are done ;
The HIA is World Rugby’s three-step process to identifying a concussion.The in-game HIA 1 identifies a suspected concussion, which leads to a player being removed from a game.
But a failed HIA 1 is only officially recognised as a concussion if a player fails a more substantive HIA 2 after the match and the HIA 3, which takes place between 36-48 hours later.
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
Actually I don't think it irresponsible if he didn't have concussion, which it seems he didn't, hell even as AB supporter I think Ireland would have appeared to done evryting to WR protocols, and can understand them as often a Dr can't make a definitive call on Concussion in 15 minutes! Take Sam W showed his symptoms next day. And here are how protocols are done ;
The HIA is World Rugby’s three-step process to identifying a concussion.The in-game HIA 1 identifies a suspected concussion, which leads to a player being removed from a game.
But a failed HIA 1 is only officially recognised as a concussion if a player fails a more substantive HIA 2 after the match and the HIA 3, which takes place between 36-48 hours later.
@Dan54 Do you really think that one of those tests can demonstrate that a guy who had a head knock, was visibly shaken, and then failed the initial test, has avoided a brain injury because his team reported he was fine on tests later in the week? Better his brain than mine.
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@Dan54 Do you really think that one of those tests can demonstrate that a guy who had a head knock, was visibly shaken, and then failed the initial test, has avoided a brain injury because his team reported he was fine on tests later in the week? Better his brain than mine.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 Do you really think that one of those tests can demonstrate that a guy who had a head knock, was visibly shaken, and then failed the initial test, has avoided a brain injury because his team reported he was fine on tests later in the week? Better his brain than mine.
I would get it if we were talking a WC final, but they are taking a big risk with him just to try to win a test in NZ.
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@Dan54 Do you really think that one of those tests can demonstrate that a guy who had a head knock, was visibly shaken, and then failed the initial test, has avoided a brain injury because his team reported he was fine on tests later in the week? Better his brain than mine.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 Do you really think that one of those tests can demonstrate that a guy who had a head knock, was visibly shaken, and then failed the initial test, has avoided a brain injury because his team reported he was fine on tests later in the week? Better his brain than mine.
...a bloke with a history of head knocks...
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@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
Actually I don't think it irresponsible if he didn't have concussion, which it seems he didn't, hell even as AB supporter I think Ireland would have appeared to done evryting to WR protocols, and can understand them as often a Dr can't make a definitive call on Concussion in 15 minutes! Take Sam W showed his symptoms next day. And here are how protocols are done ;
The HIA is World Rugby’s three-step process to identifying a concussion.The in-game HIA 1 identifies a suspected concussion, which leads to a player being removed from a game.
But a failed HIA 1 is only officially recognised as a concussion if a player fails a more substantive HIA 2 after the match and the HIA 3, which takes place between 36-48 hours later.
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
Actually I don't think it irresponsible if he didn't have concussion, which it seems he didn't, hell even as AB supporter I think Ireland would have appeared to done evryting to WR protocols, and can understand them as often a Dr can't make a definitive call on Concussion in 15 minutes! Take Sam W showed his symptoms next day. And here are how protocols are done ;
The HIA is World Rugby’s three-step process to identifying a concussion.The in-game HIA 1 identifies a suspected concussion, which leads to a player being removed from a game.
But a failed HIA 1 is only officially recognised as a concussion if a player fails a more substantive HIA 2 after the match and the HIA 3, which takes place between 36-48 hours later.
I thought this was an interesting point of view;
"Safety group Progressive Rugby insists, however, that any failure of HIA1 should lead medics to treat the player’s future participation with “extreme caution”. “Elite players who fail an in-game HIA1 have, by definition, displayed cognitive dysfunction requiring their removal,” said a Progressive Rugby spokesperson. “In our view, this is sufficient evidence, regardless of subsequent testing, to exercise extreme caution for the good of both their short and long-term health.I think a history of head knocks, a failure of the HIA1 and his age should err on the side of caution. But since they rely on Sexton so much, they won't.
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@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
Actually I don't think it irresponsible if he didn't have concussion, which it seems he didn't, hell even as AB supporter I think Ireland would have appeared to done evryting to WR protocols, and can understand them as often a Dr can't make a definitive call on Concussion in 15 minutes! Take Sam W showed his symptoms next day. And here are how protocols are done ;
The HIA is World Rugby’s three-step process to identifying a concussion.The in-game HIA 1 identifies a suspected concussion, which leads to a player being removed from a game.
But a failed HIA 1 is only officially recognised as a concussion if a player fails a more substantive HIA 2 after the match and the HIA 3, which takes place between 36-48 hours later.
I thought this was an interesting point of view;
"Safety group Progressive Rugby insists, however, that any failure of HIA1 should lead medics to treat the player’s future participation with “extreme caution”. “Elite players who fail an in-game HIA1 have, by definition, displayed cognitive dysfunction requiring their removal,” said a Progressive Rugby spokesperson. “In our view, this is sufficient evidence, regardless of subsequent testing, to exercise extreme caution for the good of both their short and long-term health.I think a history of head knocks, a failure of the HIA1 and his age should err on the side of caution. But since they rely on Sexton so much, they won't.
@Kirwan said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants It seems extremely irresponsible.
Actually I don't think it irresponsible if he didn't have concussion, which it seems he didn't, hell even as AB supporter I think Ireland would have appeared to done evryting to WR protocols, and can understand them as often a Dr can't make a definitive call on Concussion in 15 minutes! Take Sam W showed his symptoms next day. And here are how protocols are done ;
The HIA is World Rugby’s three-step process to identifying a concussion.The in-game HIA 1 identifies a suspected concussion, which leads to a player being removed from a game.
But a failed HIA 1 is only officially recognised as a concussion if a player fails a more substantive HIA 2 after the match and the HIA 3, which takes place between 36-48 hours later.
I thought this was an interesting point of view;
"Safety group Progressive Rugby insists, however, that any failure of HIA1 should lead medics to treat the player’s future participation with “extreme caution”. “Elite players who fail an in-game HIA1 have, by definition, displayed cognitive dysfunction requiring their removal,” said a Progressive Rugby spokesperson. “In our view, this is sufficient evidence, regardless of subsequent testing, to exercise extreme caution for the good of both their short and long-term health.I think a history of head knocks, a failure of the HIA1 and his age should err on the side of caution. But since they rely on Sexton so much, they won't.
thats the whole thing isn't it, play it safe
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@Dan54 Do you really think that one of those tests can demonstrate that a guy who had a head knock, was visibly shaken, and then failed the initial test, has avoided a brain injury because his team reported he was fine on tests later in the week? Better his brain than mine.
@Tim said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Dan54 Do you really think that one of those tests can demonstrate that a guy who had a head knock, was visibly shaken, and then failed the initial test, has avoided a brain injury because his team reported he was fine on tests later in the week? Better his brain than mine.
No what I am saying is protocols say Dr have 15 minutes to decide whether a player is concussed, and that perhaps is not enough ( I not a Dr so don't know) so if they suspect he is concussed he can't play until they know, which to me seems sensible otherwise Drs are under pressure to say, well I can't say he he concussed for sure so he can play. Do you think that is better? Same as Sam W having bo symptoms after game but testing positive next day. Don't get me wrong, I highly agree with the safety measures for HIA etc, but don't make it a final decision during game as it could work the other way.
I will add IF Sexton was concussed I think he should stand down. -
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Time for wild prediction of the week.
Ireland to win by 3.
It’ll be much closer for sure
im going the other way, under the roof, dry and fast track...AB's by 25
Me too but maybe not 25. Closer to 15.
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Kiwiwomble said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Machpants said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
@Derm-McCrum said in All Blacks v Ireland - 2nd Test:
Time for wild prediction of the week.
Ireland to win by 3.
It’ll be much closer for sure
im going the other way, under the roof, dry and fast track...AB's by 25
Me too but maybe not 25. Closer to 15.
I'd be happy with a good, tight game where Ireland really step up the pressure, but we stay composed and with minimal mistakes like last week.
Being solid under pressure would be huge step forward.
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I wish we had archives from years ago, as I'm sure it was posted here, but I recall listening to an interview with Dr Stephen Kara, the Blues Dr at the time (I'm thinking 7 or 8 years ago, maybe longer?) about HIA and the protocols back then, he talked of the initial cognitive test, and subsequent follow up testing...was interesting listening to it and sounded pretty thorough, but never 100% and you'd like to think they have made alot of progress in diagnosis since then too?
I always think about a super game where Sam Cane called an HIA on himself after a knock that wasnt picked up by anyone, even the cameras IIRC, cant recall if he passed/failed it though.
