Foster, Robertson etc
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@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus Why would you think that?
He's made it pretty clear that he's hanging around to have a crack at the top job after RWC2023.
I didn't see that. Thank you, I feel better now. All I recall is some poster on here adamant he signed an overseas contract to be announced in August.
@nostrildamus said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chris-B said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@nostrildamus Why would you think that?
He's made it pretty clear that he's hanging around to have a crack at the top job after RWC2023.
I didn't see that. Thank you, I feel better now. All I recall is some poster on here adamant he signed an overseas contract to be announced in August.
He actually signed with NZR until 2024 a few minths back. I would actually think he would be pleased to have Ryan already as part of set up when he takes over.
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@The-Docter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew I wish they had all gone. But shall we at least give the new set up a chance?
Yes.
But Foster (and the players) will have no one to blame if the team still lose. And the next 2 tests are a tough challenge@Winger said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@The-Docter said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Victor-Meldrew I wish they had all gone. But shall we at least give the new set up a chance?
Yes.
But Foster (and the players) will have no one to blame if the team still lose. And the next 2 tests are a tough challengeThey will be huge challenge, a few of us older followers will remember when the ABs toured SA in 60s etc, you expected to lose tests on high veldt, and both these tests are there!
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"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I half expect Foster to move on, but Robertson to not be appointed. That has been, after all, the NZR way for decades now.
I suspect Robinson's seemingly all-or-nothing demands and refusing to become an Assistant Coach hasn't played well with NZR and they have concerns about his being a team player. It's poor optics for the public as well.
But then, imagine the meltdown on here if Robertson
Robinsonis appointed over and we get a repeat his 2016 U20 "success"...@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
I half expect Foster to move on, but Robertson to not be appointed. That has been, after all, the NZR way for decades now.
I suspect Robinson's seemingly all-or-nothing demands and refusing to become an Assistant Coach hasn't played well with NZR and they have concerns about his being a team player. It's poor optics for the public as well.
But then, imagine the meltdown on here if Robertson
Robinsonis appointed over and we get a repeat his 2016 U20 "success"...I like that Robersron knows his history. He would have been of an impressional age back during the 1991 board enforced co-coaching reshuffle fiasco . Obviously he's a smart guy, knows that solution wouldn't work and of no benefit for anyone other than arse-covering executives.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Tks. Interesting that McLeod was first choice for D in both camps, then.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Tks. Interesting that McLeod was first choice for D in both camps, then.
Interesting in the same way that cancer is interesting. The All Blacks defence must look great in a presentation of the theory. The implemented reality is somewhat different. At some point you have to stop wondering if it's just the players who can't make tackles as opposed to the system that is so easily exploited by the opposition.
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@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach. -
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
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@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
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It all points to the stupidity of the recruitment process, where you had to see who you could get in your gang, rather than appointing a Head Coach and then appointing the best available assistants.
No wonder Foster ended up with guys probably out of their depth.
NZ Rugby will have had to pay these guys out plenty and the buck for that stops with the people who couldn't see this was a foolish idea.
In a way, you really can "blame Deans" for this, because if he'd pointed out the stupidity of him trying to recruit before he was appointed, maybe NZR wouldn't have latched on to such a dumb idea.
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one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
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If the SA tour is a disaster, leave Foster in Cape Town and book a ticket back for Mr J White instead. Perfect solution for a short term fix if Razor does indeed want to wait.
@game_film said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
If the SA tour is a disaster, leave Foster in Cape Town and book a ticket back for Mr J White instead. Perfect solution for a short term fix if Razor does indeed want to wait.
They don't play in Capetown unfortunately, its not in the high veldt!!:beaming_face_with_smiling_eyes:
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@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
have to say im not actually observant/smart enough to tell you....when i played all i did was tackle the closest guy that wasn't wearing the same jersey as me
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
I really don't know how you would reply to that, so are you saying the defence coach is just there doing nothing? If he's not the main part of setting up defence system , and had any morals he would of resigned wouldn't he?? And who would be the so called brains trust that sets up these things without in put from the coaches involved?
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@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
have to say im not actually observant/smart enough to tell you....when i played all i did was tackle the closest guy that wasn't wearing the same jersey as me
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
have to say im not actually observant/smart enough to tell you....when i played all i did was tackle the closest guy that wasn't wearing the same jersey as me
I guess what I am trying to get at is that we can't look at then defence in isolation. It has to be compatible with the rest of the game plan. Maybe more brains than just McLeod came up with a blue print for the defensive system because it fits in with whatever else they are trying to achieve. Laying all the blame at McLeod's feet may be a little too simplistic perhaps?
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@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Crucial said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kirwan said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@kiwi_expat said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
"Robertson told the interview panel that his assistants would be All Blacks defence coach Scott McLeod, who had worked under Sir Steve Hansen since late 2017 and is now in Foster's group, Blues head coach Leon MacDonald, Crusaders forwards coach Jason Ryan and Hurricanes assistant (now head coach) Jason Holland."
Man, that's a very good group of coaches.
Canes fans may disagree.
Holland would be on par with the muppets we have just got rid off. Also unsure where Robertson would use Rangi who appears much more an overall 'manager' than technical guy.
I'd be more excited if Tony Brown was attack coach.Umm, I though the Highlanders had exploded the Tony Brown myth?
i dont think its a myth hes a great attack or assistant coach...he's just not a head coach...and has said pretty much that himself, he bowed to some pressure and took the top job largely because no one better put their hand up and he loves the team
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
I realise McLeod is the defence coach, but do we know he is responsible for the defensive system the ABs are using? How do we know it wasn't a system devised by the 'brains trust' and he is just tasked with implementing it? Did the Highlanders use a similar system?
have to say im not actually observant/smart enough to tell you....when i played all i did was tackle the closest guy that wasn't wearing the same jersey as me
I guess what I am trying to get at is that we can't look at then defence in isolation. It has to be compatible with the rest of the game plan. Maybe more brains than just McLeod came up with a blue print for the defensive system because it fits in with whatever else they are trying to achieve. Laying all the blame at McLeod's feet may be a little too simplistic perhaps?
@Crazy-Horse im sure its possible and i hope you're right as it might be fixable...but im not holding my breath
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one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
also, not defending McLeod as our defence has been wowful, but he was very good with the Highlanders, so assuming he doesn;t last long with the AB's, as international rugby seems to be above him, hopefully he wont be lost to NZR rugby
@Kiwiwomble said in Foster must go / Assistant Coach changes:
one question, did Ryan have any input in the squad selection? if not we're not exactly giving him a fair crack at succeeding quickly...hey, go to SA with someone else's forwards back and win...
If I understood yesterday's interview with Foster correctly, Ryan is not getting the selector's bit of Plumtree's roles. But even if he did, he wouldn't have had any input for the selection of the current squad, as he had only just returned from Fiji where he had his job to do with the Fijian squad.
Not sure it would have made much of a difference though. Coaching has been the main issue; not squad selection.
As Ryan only has 13 days before the first test against SA (effectively much less, because there are off-days and travel days in that period), I'm not expecting miracles. You can't fix much in such a short time.
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Don't think so, both Robertson and Foster wanted him, so it's obvious he has a lot ability in attack etc.
