Foster, Robertson etc
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@taniwharugby ask your son bro! that's young'un speak for going hard and getting the W!
I agree with @Billy-Tell this was a hurting team having a big game. A REALLY big game it has to be said, but I totally get they were playing for Fozzie, themselves, and us of course. The risks are too high to think this is the turning of a corner. The comment about no decisions till they are home and around support networks is telling imo.
@Paekakboyz yea I assumed that was what he meant, especially if that line was said prior to the match, but after the win, just made less sense.
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@Paekakboyz said in Foster:
@taniwharugby ask your son bro! that's young'un speak for going hard and getting the W!
I agree with @Billy-Tell this was a hurting team having a big game. A REALLY big game it has to be said, but I totally get they were playing for Fozzie, themselves, and us of course. The risks are too high to think this is the turning of a corner. The comment about no decisions till they are home and around support networks is telling imo.
Agree it's way too early to say a corner has been turned or if it is even a start. But if Ardie's comments about Foster are an indicator of team sentiment, any changes around the Head Coach are going to be perilous for NZR to navigate unless Foster himself decides to step down.
It would have been way better if he had gone after the Ireland loss but that ship has now sailed. Bit of a mess.
@Victor-Meldrew it's hard to tell how much the players will take on themselves about how things have gone. If you have any degree of rapport with your boss/leadership and you aren't performing overly well that can weigh on a person. Let alone in an environment like the ABs where a lot of those players have worked with Foster for many years, and had his support and trust etc.
Not to say I dismiss what the players are saying, or expect them to only praise and support Fozzie. The right way to express concerns is in private - but we (quite rightly) don't see that stuff aired.
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@Victor-Meldrew
He backs him 100% and will back whoever they choose in the future 100%.
Perhaps he is just being professional.@Victor-Meldrew
He backs him 100% and will back whoever they choose in the future 100%.
Perhaps he is just being professional.Mate. if a senior AB who has captained the team makes a comment like that (which was pretty strong emotionally), then he's either a great actor or a bloody good liar. I don't think he's either.
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@Victor-Meldrew
He backs him 100% and will back whoever they choose in the future 100%.
Perhaps he is just being professional.Mate. if a senior AB who has captained the team makes a comment like that (which was pretty strong emotionally), then he's either a great actor or a bloody good liar. I don't think he's either.
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@Victor-Meldrew No doubt Ardie loves him. He speaks from the heart.
Not sure he has done a full survey of the team (especially the Sader players) as to who, in the cold light of day, they would prefer.
He is speaking for himself - imo@Victor-Meldrew No doubt Ardie loves him. He speaks from the heart.
Not sure he has done a full survey of the team (especially the Sader players) as to who, in the cold light of day, they would prefer.
He is speaking for himself - imoI think you are poss. reading too much into it. Taking Ardie's & Ritchie (Crusader) Mo'unga's comments on Foster at face value, it's pretty clear he has their confidence and they back him to the hilt
That might normally be a good thing but coming after yesterday's win, it complicates any decision on Foster's future. Would have been far better to have made the break after Ireland 3.
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@Victor-Meldrew it's hard to tell how much the players will take on themselves about how things have gone. If you have any degree of rapport with your boss/leadership and you aren't performing overly well that can weigh on a person. Let alone in an environment like the ABs where a lot of those players have worked with Foster for many years, and had his support and trust etc.
Not to say I dismiss what the players are saying, or expect them to only praise and support Fozzie. The right way to express concerns is in private - but we (quite rightly) don't see that stuff aired.
@Paekakboyz said in Foster:
Not to say I dismiss what the players are saying, or expect them to only praise and support Fozzie. The right way to express concerns is in private - but we (quite rightly) don't see that stuff aired.
That would come out in the player reviews, which based on what has been made public, have not been critical of Foster unlike some of his (former) assistants.
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They have 3 options
- fire foster
- confirm foster for RC then another review
- keep foster
I find it hard to get excited about yesterday as I can’t convince myself the corner is turned. More think it’s a false dawn.
@Billy-Tell said in Foster:
They have 3 options
- fire foster
- confirm foster for RC then another review
- keep foster
I find it hard to get excited about yesterday as I can’t convince myself the corner is turned. More think it’s a false dawn.
There should be a simple message to Ian Foster.
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Did Robinson not scenario plan the last fortnight?
Win both: Fozzy has to stay and mostly everyone would agree that was fair.
Lose both badly: Fozzy gots to go.
Anything in between (1-1, game drawn, play great but lose 2 thrillers, players sent off):
Do nothing. Wait to see if the ABs avoid disaster vs Pumas and retain Bledisloe.
Robinson is obviously a terrible communicator and has no vision and is completely lacking in self awareness. Not great traits for a CEO.
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Did Robinson not scenario plan the last fortnight?
Win both: Fozzy has to stay and mostly everyone would agree that was fair.
Lose both badly: Fozzy gots to go.
Anything in between (1-1, game drawn, play great but lose 2 thrillers, players sent off):
Do nothing. Wait to see if the ABs avoid disaster vs Pumas and retain Bledisloe.
Robinson is obviously a terrible communicator and has no vision and is completely lacking in self awareness. Not great traits for a CEO.
@game_film said in Foster:
Did Robinson not scenario plan the last fortnight?
Win both: Fozzy has to stay and mostly everyone would agree that was fair.
Lose both badly: Fozzy gots to go.
Anything in between (1-1, game drawn, play great but lose 2 thrillers, players sent off):
Do nothing. Wait to see if the ABs avoid disaster vs Pumas and retain Bledisloe.
Robinson is obviously a terrible communicator and has no vision and is completely lacking in self awareness. Not great traits for a CEO.
Plan? Wait what?
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@Paekakboyz said in Foster:
Not to say I dismiss what the players are saying, or expect them to only praise and support Fozzie. The right way to express concerns is in private - but we (quite rightly) don't see that stuff aired.
That would come out in the player reviews, which based on what has been made public, have not been critical of Foster unlike some of his (former) assistants.
@Bovidae but would NZR let that dirty laundry out? They seem to try and keep a positive spin aka 'due diligence' (fuck, I really dislike their mealy mouthed corp speak guff) going at every layer. It'd be very easy for them to say things were positive even if there was some pointed criticism of Foster. Again, another situation where the assistant coaches are treated very differently to the big cheese.
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I don’t think the players views have any significant weight in all this. Unless there is a Brumbies like coup/revolt happening… but this is a national team and no one is bigger than the jersey and all that…
The players are not making the decision. Player reviews are all part of the engagement strategy of the NZRU as an organisation. The way I look at it, the players didn’t have a say in the appointment, so why would their views matter now.
Comments from players do certainly add colour to it all and give journos and us fans plenty to discuss.
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@Bovidae but would NZR let that dirty laundry out? They seem to try and keep a positive spin aka 'due diligence' (fuck, I really dislike their mealy mouthed corp speak guff) going at every layer. It'd be very easy for them to say things were positive even if there was some pointed criticism of Foster. Again, another situation where the assistant coaches are treated very differently to the big cheese.
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The Breakdown panel are basically ripping Robinson and the rest of the board for their lack of clarity over Foster's future, and their incompetence over club rugby, 7s, the BFs, and Silverlake. I don't disagree with them. Foster may not be the man for the job. But the pressure Robinson has put him under with all of his nothing talk, and 3 reviews within 9 months including 2 in a couple of months, the CEO should have the stones to fire him or back him
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All I am saying is that the feedback from the player reviews would be known to Robinson, Lendrum and the board so would inform their decision regardless of what the players may be saying publicly.
@Bovidae totally agree mate. So again it comes down to how ham-fisted management have been during this situation.
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The Breakdown panel are basically ripping Robinson and the rest of the board for their lack of clarity over Foster's future, and their incompetence over club rugby, 7s, the BFs, and Silverlake. I don't disagree with them. Foster may not be the man for the job. But the pressure Robinson has put him under with all of his nothing talk, and 3 reviews within 9 months including 2 in a couple of months, the CEO should have the stones to fire him or back him
The Breakdown panel are basically ripping Robinson and the rest of the board for their lack of clarity over Foster's future, and their incompetence over club rugby, 7s, the BFs, and Silverlake. I don't disagree with them. Foster may not be the man for the job. But the pressure Robinson has put him under with all of his nothing talk, and 3 reviews within 9 months including 2 in a couple of months, the CEO should have the stones to fire him or back him
Board decision, not CEO, he can make recommendations, but that's it
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No further comment till that time. FFS what a waste of time.
edit - Then he throws it to the board.
@Paekakboyz said in Foster:
No further comment till that time. FFS what a waste of time.
edit - Then he throws it to the board.
Robinson confirms that any discussions on Ian Foster's future will include the New Zealand Rugby board. The timing on those discussions is still yet to be determined. “The appointment of the coach is the board's responsibility, management provides insight, we will provide that to them.”Does the board really decide? Is that normal? I thought these sorts of boards are usually advisory?
Or is he deflecting responsibility?https://www.nzrugby.co.nz/about-nzr/governance/our-board/
Our Board is charged with setting strategy, direction and policy for New Zealand Rugby, and is ultimately responsible for the decisions and actions of NZR Management and Staff. Many of the decisions concerning New Zealand's national teams, domestic competitions, financial management and rugby traditions can only be made by a vote of the Board.Oh ok then. Marketing and accounting-they just don't seem replete with coaching//high performance experience?
https://www.nzrugby.co.nz/about-nzr/governance/our-board/ -
Any decision next week other than retention would be extremely poor management. Which is to admit NZRU may do it.
Whatever one thinks about things that performance tells us the changing shed is still on board.
If it were me, I'd ask why it took till second test to click that back to basics was necessary.
And then set target of three wins from four in rest of RC, failing which changes would be made.
That would mean Bledisloe retained, and likely another RC.
Last year's EOYT failures suggest the strategy for touring also needs a rethink, but that can wait.
