Foster, Robertson etc
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Plumtree will be concerned if the forwards continue to improve with Ryan in charge. He was really rated not that long again.
By who? (apart from Foster). Ryan and Coventry have been the top NZ forwards coaches for sometime and would have sat ahead of Plumtree in pecking order (if available).
Funny if he really was the weak link as part of his reputation came from being hired by Joe Schmidt for Ireland's forwards.
OK. I thought he was rated highly. (Not now of course) Esp as an assistant in charge of the forwards. And he did get the AB assistants job so more than Foster must have rated him. He also got the Cane's head coach job although that might not be saying much.
Re Schmidt. He appointed him so he must have been rated before then
I wonder if he has an issue dealing with players. As Umaga mentioned.
https://www.stuff.co.nz/dominion-post/archive/national-news/35183/Umaga-sticks-the-boot-in
Umaga also tackles respected coaches John Plumtree and Bryan Williams, saying Plumtree enjoyed humiliating players in front of teammates and that Williams was not "up to speed" with the modern game.
OK. I thought he was rated highly. (Not now of course) Esp as an assistant in charge of the forwards. And he did get the AB assistants job so more than Foster must have rated him.
Yeah he was rated by some. I just meant he wasnt necessarily rated in NZ compared to others.
He was SA coach of the year after winning Currie Cup with the Shorks, but that was after a good record with Wellington that didn't lead to a Super job here (maybe a red flag there?).
His Ireland spell didn't last long so maybe Joe knows something which added to him being pushed from the ABsEdit: @Bovidae this post was delayed by a work question. I see you beat me to it.
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Some reading from the soothsayers of the Fern
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/3375/new-nzr-ceo-mark-robinson/18
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/3608/poll-the-final-choice-ab-coach?page=1
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/3572/ab-squad-next-rwc-2023?page=1
https://www.forum.thesilverfern.com/topic/3556/all-black-coach-ian-foster?page=1
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Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
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@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
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A couple of points from this article
There’s more than a touch of irony in the All Blacks’ revival and Ian Foster’s battle for survival as coach of the New Zealand team after their gritty win in Johannesburg.
The impressive 35-23 win had the second hand fingerprints of Scott Robertson, the contender to replace Foster, all over it.
Jason Ryan has made a quick impact as forwards coach. That’s Ryan, Robertson’s long-time assistant at the Crusaders and who was on Robertson’s ticket when he went for the coaching job to replace the retiring Steve Hansen in 2019 but lost out to Foster.Mo’unga stood up when called up. His vision is second-to-none. At Ellis Park his goalkicking was solid, his general kicking highly efficient, his decision-making and game management were exceptional, and he knew when to throw caution to the wind to get the All Blacks out of the danger zones with ball-in-hand attacks that made a mockery of what transpired seven days earlier.
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A couple of points from this article
There’s more than a touch of irony in the All Blacks’ revival and Ian Foster’s battle for survival as coach of the New Zealand team after their gritty win in Johannesburg.
The impressive 35-23 win had the second hand fingerprints of Scott Robertson, the contender to replace Foster, all over it.
Jason Ryan has made a quick impact as forwards coach. That’s Ryan, Robertson’s long-time assistant at the Crusaders and who was on Robertson’s ticket when he went for the coaching job to replace the retiring Steve Hansen in 2019 but lost out to Foster.Mo’unga stood up when called up. His vision is second-to-none. At Ellis Park his goalkicking was solid, his general kicking highly efficient, his decision-making and game management were exceptional, and he knew when to throw caution to the wind to get the All Blacks out of the danger zones with ball-in-hand attacks that made a mockery of what transpired seven days earlier.
@Chris I do wonder if all this talk from the players about how great a coach (guy) Fozzie is, did inspire them knowing another defeat was the end of him...
I mean he can be a top bloke, but a poor coach and still inspire his players, just a shame it got to this point for the players to become inspired or clearer, or was just timing of the aligned stars with the exit of Moar/Plumtree and the bigger influence of Ryan/Schmidt?
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@Crucial Possibly my view is one dimensional and yours and others are more nuanced. But the bottom line is the score board which, despite what the players or past players or coaches or Foster have to say, shows failure. Sometimes what is obvious and in front of our faces is more real than what a thousand words can say.
Rennie is trying out new players and new strategies with less depth to fall back on.
Regards Foster I am beginning to feel sorry for the bloke it must be crap to pull off such a win then fly back wondering if one is facing a firing squad.And I am no clearer as to who makes the decisions at NZR...who are the leaders, the board or Robinson? He seems to be shuffling backwards ..
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@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
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I said it before but Foster may be fine as a team manager ..
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@Chris I do wonder if all this talk from the players about how great a coach (guy) Fozzie is, did inspire them knowing another defeat was the end of him...
I mean he can be a top bloke, but a poor coach and still inspire his players, just a shame it got to this point for the players to become inspired or clearer, or was just timing of the aligned stars with the exit of Moar/Plumtree and the bigger influence of Ryan/Schmidt?
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
@Chris I do wonder if all this talk from the players about how great a coach (guy) Fozzie is, did inspire them knowing another defeat was the end of him...
I mean he can be a top bloke, but a poor coach and still inspire his players, just a shame it got to this point for the players to become inspired or clearer, or was just timing of the aligned stars with the exit of Moar/Plumtree and the bigger influence of Ryan/Schmidt?
It could have, some players may also have been thinking another loss and their places are gone as well.
It is just a fucking mess the way NZR have and are handling this just be decisive either way and get on with it.
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@Chris I do wonder if all this talk from the players about how great a coach (guy) Fozzie is, did inspire them knowing another defeat was the end of him...
I mean he can be a top bloke, but a poor coach and still inspire his players, just a shame it got to this point for the players to become inspired or clearer, or was just timing of the aligned stars with the exit of Moar/Plumtree and the bigger influence of Ryan/Schmidt?
@taniwharugby said in Foster:
I mean he can be a top bloke, but a poor coach and still inspire his players, just a shame it got to this point for the players to become inspired or clearer, or was just timing of the aligned stars with the exit of Moar/Plumtree and the bigger influence of Ryan/Schmidt?
The latter, combined with players playing for the career survival, plain respect, and as Nonu said after the game, a Bok side that were perhaps a little complacent coming into the game.
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A couple of points from this article
There’s more than a touch of irony in the All Blacks’ revival and Ian Foster’s battle for survival as coach of the New Zealand team after their gritty win in Johannesburg.
The impressive 35-23 win had the second hand fingerprints of Scott Robertson, the contender to replace Foster, all over it.
Jason Ryan has made a quick impact as forwards coach. That’s Ryan, Robertson’s long-time assistant at the Crusaders and who was on Robertson’s ticket when he went for the coaching job to replace the retiring Steve Hansen in 2019 but lost out to Foster.Mo’unga stood up when called up. His vision is second-to-none. At Ellis Park his goalkicking was solid, his general kicking highly efficient, his decision-making and game management were exceptional, and he knew when to throw caution to the wind to get the All Blacks out of the danger zones with ball-in-hand attacks that made a mockery of what transpired seven days earlier.
Mo’unga stood up when called up. His vision is second-to-none. At Ellis Park his goalkicking was solid, his general kicking highly efficient, his decision-making and game management were exceptional
It certainly was an exceptional pass to PSDT.
The difference between both tests was the forward platform that allowed the backs to function on the front foot.
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Mo’unga stood up when called up. His vision is second-to-none. At Ellis Park his goalkicking was solid, his general kicking highly efficient, his decision-making and game management were exceptional
It certainly was an exceptional pass to PSDT.
The difference between both tests was the forward platform that allowed the backs to function on the front foot.
Mo’unga stood up when called up. His vision is second-to-none. At Ellis Park his goalkicking was solid, his general kicking highly efficient, his decision-making and game management were exceptional
It certainly was an exceptional pass to PSDT.
The difference between both tests was the forward platform that allowed the backs to function on the front foot.
That was down to Ryans involvement not the big fella.
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@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
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@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
Who do you suggest?
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@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
Where can we find one as we don't have that now.
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@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
Who do you suggest?
@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
Who do you suggest?
The bloke that won on the weekend against the World Champions at their version of Eden Park must be alright.
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@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
Who do you suggest?
The bloke that won on the weekend against the World Champions at their version of Eden Park must be alright.
@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
Who do you suggest?
The bloke that won on the weekend against the World Champions at their version of Eden Park must be alright.
The same bloke who was part of the 2019 WC SF loss and has created all sorts of losing stats over the last 3 years Perfect lol.
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@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
Who do you suggest?
The bloke that won on the weekend against the World Champions at their version of Eden Park must be alright.
The same bloke who was part of the 2019 WC SF loss and has created all sorts of losing stats over the last 3 years Perfect lol.
@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
@Chester-Draws said in Foster:
@antipodean said in Foster:
Why would you remove a coach that won against the current World Champions at Ellis Park?
Because he just lost a home series to Ireland.
Why does two good results trump three poor ones?
Progress. There's now a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board apparently. Hopefully they help drive Foster to be slightly less risk averse in selections, as we've seen young props step up to the plate.
The progress has largely happened because of "a very competent forwards coach and analyst on board" now we need a very competent head coach with a far superior record to Foster to top it all off.
We aren't playing Super Rugby, we want a head coach with experience at Test level and a demonstrated record of success at RWCs. Like a winner's medal in some capacity.
Who do you suggest?
The bloke that won on the weekend against the World Champions at their version of Eden Park must be alright.
The same bloke who was part of the 2019 WC SF loss and has created all sorts of losing stats over the last 3 years Perfect lol.
Sir Ted became the first All Black coach to get bundled out at the quarter final stage.
I'm guessing my point is a little too subtle for you and @Frank
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Rennie is trying out new players and new strategies with less depth to fall back on.
Regards Foster I am beginning to feel sorry for the bloke it must be crap to pull off such a win then fly back wondering if one is facing a firing squad.And I am no clearer as to who makes the decisions at NZR...who are the leaders, the board or Robinson? He seems to be shuffling backwards ..
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Rennie is trying out new players and new strategies with less depth to fall back on.
Regards Foster I am beginning to feel sorry for the bloke it must be crap to pull off such a win then fly back wondering if one is facing a firing squad.And I am no clearer as to who makes the decisions at NZR...who are the leaders, the board or Robinson? He seems to be shuffling backwards ..
It’s pretty simple, when it comes to the Head Coach decision it’s the Board. Has been for some time. The Chairman has always announced it as far back as I can remember.
