Foster, Robertson etc
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Politics and Pragmatism
In retaining Foster and elevating Schmidt to a more strategic role, the NZR has made both a political arse-saving decision and a sensibly pragmatic one. Fundamentally, of course, this was always about fixing up a public relations mess of their own making.
And what a mess. Given the public uproar over the All Blacks’ performances, It seemed almost certain a week ago that Foster was gone for all money. And I have little doubt that Robinson was on hand in South Africa to accept his ‘resignation’ after the Ellis Park test.
But the ABs’ beating the Boks against all the odds in game II mucked up the plan, leaving Robinson to convene that bizarre media conference in Johannesburg at which he said nothing of substance, while conveying what most of us have known all along - that the real villains in this saga are the NZR board themselves - an indecisive, directionless and poorly organised rabble whose original appointment of Foster in the face of better alternatives was both a poor choice and one they have been scrambling to make up for every since.
Like the AB performances themselves, at least up to Ellis Park, the NZR administration has been a shuffling, stumbling, conviction-less shambles. The right hand does not not appear to know what the left hand is doing, there is no boardroom game plan and no-one appears to be effectively in charge. So they have spared themselves further embarrassment with this 14-month workaround.
That’s the politics. What about the pragmatism? Well, that’s the good part. There appear still to be enough adults in this over-crowded kitchen to stop the next 14 months being a complete disaster. Foster remains the titular head of the galley, though much of his original coaching hands have been turfed out of the kitchen and replaced with smarter rugby brains - Ryan and Schmidt - who should be able to bring together the available ingredients to as to serve up a more palatable outcome.
You would hope that now a firm decision has been made - well, at least the appearance of one - this will end the self-generated soap opera and get people focused back on the task at hand. That starts with the Pumas in Christchurch next week and then onto the Wallabies and the retention of the Bledisloe Cup.
As for Razor Robertson, he may feel a sense of relief, not having to be drafted in at the worst possible moment to fix a mess created by somebody else. This gives him clear air to take over the top job next year, should be still be interested. And it gives the players, who were clearly and rightfully sick of the whole charade, a sense of certainty and direction.
If the outcome is Foster being more consultative, more open to new ideas and less dogged in his selections and game plans, the changes will be an improvement. They certainly couldn’t make things any worse. Could they?
@His-Bobness said in Foster:
Politics and Pragmatism
Like the AB performances themselves, at least up to Ellis Park, the NZR administration has been a shuffling, stumbling, conviction-less shambles. The right hand does not not appear to know what the left hand is doing, there is no boardroom game plan and no-one appears to be effectively in charge.
.. They certainly couldn’t make things any worse. Could they?I suspect the question has followed the answer.
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I was never a fan of Foster's appointment from the beginning and the process from the board on how he got the job should come into question. The results have been mixed, below par, and the win record thus far is poor. All that being said, I understand NZRU's position now; it's just as risky to switch Foster. They made their bed with Foster's extension last year.
Nevertheless, here we are now—no point in dwelling on the past. We should get behind the team. I did watch the press conference, and in some ways, you go to give Foster credit for his resilience; that earns some respect in my books. Ryan and Schmidt on board give me some comfort that they can turn it around.
Moving forward, it comes down to the players and selections as the variable that can change the outcomes. Cane is no longer the best No.7 or choice for captain; respect him as a person and his resilience, but we need the best team on the field. Getting that back row sorted is critical, and should be the next shakeup.
Now that the decision is made, I will keep backing the ABs and be weary of falling into the media misinformation and hype. Onwards and upwards!
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
In contrast - Hansen had just 3 assistants (Foster, McLeod, Cron)..
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
In contrast - Hansen had just 3 assistants (Foster, McLeod, Cron)..
Wasn't Mike Cron only brought in as a stop gap due to Covid taking out Feek before ABs-Ireland 1? I didn't realise he had an ongoing advisory role?
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@His-Bobness said in Foster:
Politics and Pragmatism
Like the AB performances themselves, at least up to Ellis Park, the NZR administration has been a shuffling, stumbling, conviction-less shambles. The right hand does not not appear to know what the left hand is doing, there is no boardroom game plan and no-one appears to be effectively in charge.
.. They certainly couldn’t make things any worse. Could they?I suspect the question has followed the answer.
Could the NZR at least improve their coach selection process? More transparency for example. They could even ask ex-coaches for suggestions (not just Hansen and Henry).
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These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
In contrast - Hansen had just 3 assistants (Foster, McLeod, Cron)..
Bit of a logjam in the forwards. And overall strategy to Joe? Not that I am complaining but what will Foster actually be in charge of, talking to the media and organising the beer?
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
In contrast - Hansen had just 3 assistants (Foster, McLeod, Cron)..
Bit of a logjam in the forwards. And overall strategy to Joe? Not that I am complaining but what will Foster actually be in charge of, talking to the media and organising the beer?
senior food safety/inspector, in case of another poisoning event
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Well, shit decision, quelle surprise.
The Aussies are pretty much all injured and just got humped by the Pumas, so we should be able to paper over the cracks a bit more by retaining the Bledisloe. At least Mounga and the young front row started in the win, so should get an extended run.
Hopefully we can win despite the obvious deficiencies, but that will rely on whoever is telling our players to make 'attacking' kicks in our territory to fucking stop it. -
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
In contrast - Hansen had just 3 assistants (Foster, McLeod, Cron)..
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
Looks like Fozzie won't be doing much coaching which is a positive I suppose. Get rid of McLeod and we may have a chance.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
Looks like Fozzie won't be doing much coaching which is a positive I suppose. Get rid of McLeod and we may have a chance.
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
Looks like Fozzie won't be doing much coaching which is a positive I suppose. Get rid of McLeod and we may have a chance.
We don't know McLeod is responsible for the style of defence though. Maybe he is just trying to coach a system he has been told to coach.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
In contrast - Hansen had just 3 assistants (Foster, McLeod, Cron)..
Wasn't Mike Cron only brought in as a stop gap due to Covid taking out Feek before ABs-Ireland 1? I didn't realise he had an ongoing advisory role?
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@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
Looks like Fozzie won't be doing much coaching which is a positive I suppose. Get rid of McLeod and we may have a chance.
We don't know McLeod is responsible for the style of defence though. Maybe he is just trying to coach a system he has been told to coach.
@Crazy-Horse said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
@nostrildamus said in Foster:
Ok you are all probably right I am just still upset our worst coach in recent memory gets the best coaches to help him fall over the line.
Unfortunately.
There's plenty of coaching nous in the mix now between Ryan, Feek, Cron, Strawbridge and now Schmidt..
Fozzie will be the media fluffer and the boys' shoulder to cry on while the assistants create the master plans.
So basically team manager like I suggested before. The coach one tries to keep away from actual coaching.
These are the contracted 7:
Joe Schmidt (backs and overall strategy), Jason Ryan (forwards), Greg Feek (scrum), Scott McLeod (defence), Andrew Strawbridge (skills coach), David Hill (kicking coach), Mike Cron (hands-off advisory role).
Looks like Fozzie won't be doing much coaching which is a positive I suppose. Get rid of McLeod and we may have a chance.
We don't know McLeod is responsible for the style of defence though. Maybe he is just trying to coach a system he has been told to coach.
Anything that waters down the influence of the architect of our play over the last 12 to 18 months is a good thing. There was a noticeable shift in our pattern jn Joburg, I hope this continues to evolve
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Politics and Pragmatism
In retaining Foster and elevating Schmidt to a more strategic role, the NZR has made both a political arse-saving decision and a sensibly pragmatic one. Fundamentally, of course, this was always about fixing up a public relations mess of their own making.
And what a mess. Given the public uproar over the All Blacks’ performances, It seemed almost certain a week ago that Foster was gone for all money. And I have little doubt that Robinson was on hand in South Africa to accept his ‘resignation’ after the Ellis Park test.
But the ABs’ beating the Boks against all the odds in game II mucked up the plan, leaving Robinson to convene that bizarre media conference in Johannesburg at which he said nothing of substance, while conveying what most of us have known all along - that the real villains in this saga are the NZR board themselves - an indecisive, directionless and poorly organised rabble whose original appointment of Foster in the face of better alternatives was both a poor choice and one they have been scrambling to make up for every since.
Like the AB performances themselves, at least up to Ellis Park, the NZR administration has been a shuffling, stumbling, conviction-less shambles. The right hand does not not appear to know what the left hand is doing, there is no boardroom game plan and no-one appears to be effectively in charge. So they have spared themselves further embarrassment with this 14-month workaround.
That’s the politics. What about the pragmatism? Well, that’s the good part. There appear still to be enough adults in this over-crowded kitchen to stop the next 14 months being a complete disaster. Foster remains the titular head of the galley, though much of his original coaching hands have been turfed out of the kitchen and replaced with smarter rugby brains - Ryan and Schmidt - who should be able to bring together the available ingredients to as to serve up a more palatable outcome.
You would hope that now a firm decision has been made - well, at least the appearance of one - this will end the self-generated soap opera and get people focused back on the task at hand. That starts with the Pumas in Christchurch next week and then onto the Wallabies and the retention of the Bledisloe Cup.
As for Razor Robertson, he may feel a sense of relief, not having to be drafted in at the worst possible moment to fix a mess created by somebody else. This gives him clear air to take over the top job next year, should be still be interested. And it gives the players, who were clearly and rightfully sick of the whole charade, a sense of certainty and direction.
If the outcome is Foster being more consultative, more open to new ideas and less dogged in his selections and game plans, the changes will be an improvement. They certainly couldn’t make things any worse. Could they?
@His-Bobness great post. You spoil us.
If you were to have the inclination, have a read up about NZRs handling of womens rugby in the past couple of years. That too has ended up in a trouble shooting coach situation drawing on the old hands of Smith and Henry along with some long overdue additions of female coaching assistance.
What we don’t know is if the knowledge and issues are polished turds in the reporting to the board (Robinson’s doing) or if Robinson isn’t being listened to (board with head in the sand)
I suspect Robinson is an arse coverer based on his public behavior recently. He didn’t implement recommendations in the womens game until shit hit the fan and then did the usual trick of diverting attention by calling for another deeper report. -
Any excitement in the fact that it is an NZ Board announcement and not a Mark Robinson one? Just saying....
Any excitement in the fact that it is an NZ Board announcement and not a Mark Robinson one? Just saying....
I noticed that. Robinson has f++ked this up so badly the board might have felt they need to step in to fix the mess he has left
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Excellent. Another 150 pages of this thread.
A quick summary in case you needed it... :
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Foster should never have been appointed in the first place
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We need to sack Foster and appoint Robertson now
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Robertson wouldn't want to take over after Foster
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Foster will never sack his assistants as they are "family"
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Foster has hung his assistants out to dry by getting rid of them
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Foster is fat
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The players say they support Foster but they are just saying that coz (insert preferred reason here)
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It's going to take some time to turn around Foster's mess and it's silly to say new coach will achieve instant results
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Jason Ryan has achieved miracles in two weeks
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Robertson wouldn't want to take over after Foster anyway and Robertson's too good a coach to want to work with Foster as an Assistant
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NZR have completely lost the plot and Foster should never have been appointed in the first place
Classic Fern thread
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Any excitement in the fact that it is an NZ Board announcement and not a Mark Robinson one? Just saying....
I noticed that. Robinson has f++ked this up so badly the board might have felt they need to step in to fix the mess he has left
And they said Robinson had full support as well.
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@KiwiMurph Cron is also involved with the Black Ferns, so probably just used as required by all teams.
@KiwiMurph Cron is also involved with the Black Ferns, so probably just used as required by all teams.
Yep same as Strawbridge etc, they just come into camp and do a bit of work every now and then, they have done it for years, get in kicking coaches etc. I think every pro team does. I know even in Aus Greg Martin used to go down and do kicking with Reds, and many have specialised fitness gurus etc.
Not sure if anyone watched Rugby pod the other night, Parsons and Bryn Hall were saying that teams will watch recordings of games for hours, just to know where to hold their hands when trying to charge down kicks from different players, ie 9 may kick from directly behind a ruck, so you hold hans different to one who kicks from side. They do it for wingers etc in teams they are playing that week, the days of a couple of coaches are well gone.
Bloody ridiculous I thought, but that's pro sport!! -
Summary from Stuff:
NZ Rugby CEO Mark Robinson said he still hoped Scott Robertson had a long future in the game in New Zealand.
He aid Robertson was "valued'' but turned the conversation back towards the decision to retain Foster.
"We have a huge regard for Razor as a key part of the coaching landscape in this country and and we hope he has a great future in the game here.
"But today's not really about Razor. Today's about Ian and his team into this new era."
Foster said he has no plans to change the All Blacks management staff. Business as usual, in other words.
Robertson has already made it clear he wants to coach a country at the 2027 World Cup. He could have a crack at the All Blacks job after the World Cup next year, or look to head offshore.
Robinson admitted NZ Rugby could have done some things better in recent weeks, but said it was time to move on and look ahead. -
@His-Bobness great post. You spoil us.
If you were to have the inclination, have a read up about NZRs handling of womens rugby in the past couple of years. That too has ended up in a trouble shooting coach situation drawing on the old hands of Smith and Henry along with some long overdue additions of female coaching assistance.
What we don’t know is if the knowledge and issues are polished turds in the reporting to the board (Robinson’s doing) or if Robinson isn’t being listened to (board with head in the sand)
I suspect Robinson is an arse coverer based on his public behavior recently. He didn’t implement recommendations in the womens game until shit hit the fan and then did the usual trick of diverting attention by calling for another deeper report.@His-Bobness great post. You spoil us.
If you were to have the inclination, have a read up about NZRs handling of womens rugby in the past couple of years. That too has ended up in a trouble shooting coach situation drawing on the old hands of Smith and Henry along with some long overdue additions of female coaching assistance.
What we don’t know is if the knowledge and issues are polished turds in the reporting to the board (Robinson’s doing) or if Robinson isn’t being listened to (board with head in the sand)
I suspect Robinson is an arse coverer based on his public behavior recently. He didn’t implement recommendations in the womens game until shit hit the fan and then did the usual trick of diverting attention by calling for another deeper report.BFs, SANZAR relations, the ABs, Silverlake. The body of work is compelling
