Foster, Robertson etc
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@Frank said in Foster, Robertson etc:
- Other countries appoint before the World Cup and we are left with whoever isn't picked up. (possibly the riff-raff)
They actually haven't. England and Australia have appointed new coaches recently that have contracts post-RWC, while Ireland, France and SA have/will extend the contracts of their current coaches. Wales and Scotland are in the same position as NZ in that the current coaches contract ends after the RWC. It's not that common for a new coach to be appointed before the current coach has finished, even at SR level.
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
So Foster would like to keep him job by the sounds of his remarks and wants go to another WC.
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
Imagine, the head coach of a National rugby team saying he and his players want to win the RWC. Not only that but, if they do win, wanting the opportunity to put his name forward to carry on.
Outrageous. Totally and utterly outrageous.....
Who the fuck said it was I just mentioned by his remarks he wanted to maybe carry on, not that it was good bad or anything you made up the rest of your post in your head because apparently you read something else into my post.
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
So Foster would like to keep him job by the sounds of his remarks and wants go to another WC.
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
Imagine, the head coach of a National rugby team saying he and his players want to win the RWC. Not only that but, if they do win, wanting the opportunity to put his name forward to carry on.
Outrageous. Totally and utterly outrageous.....
Who the fuck said it was I just mentioned by his remarks he wanted to maybe carry on, not that it was good bad or anything you made up the rest of your post in your head because apparently you read something else into my post.
Calm down. I didn't make any comment or have any thoughts on whether you thought it good or bad. My point was about the banality of the Foster quote in the article - what else does anyone expect him, or any other Head Coach, to say, FFS?
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
So Foster would like to keep him job by the sounds of his remarks and wants go to another WC.
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
Imagine, the head coach of a National rugby team saying he and his players want to win the RWC. Not only that but, if they do win, wanting the opportunity to put his name forward to carry on.
Outrageous. Totally and utterly outrageous.....
Who the fuck said it was I just mentioned by his remarks he wanted to maybe carry on, not that it was good bad or anything you made up the rest of your post in your head because apparently you read something else into my post.
Calm down. I didn't make any comment or have any thoughts on whether you thought it good or bad. My point was about the banality of the Foster quote in the article - what else does anyone expect him, or any other Head Coach, to say, FFS?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
So Foster would like to keep him job by the sounds of his remarks and wants go to another WC.
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
Imagine, the head coach of a National rugby team saying he and his players want to win the RWC. Not only that but, if they do win, wanting the opportunity to put his name forward to carry on.
Outrageous. Totally and utterly outrageous.....
Who the fuck said it was I just mentioned by his remarks he wanted to maybe carry on, not that it was good bad or anything you made up the rest of your post in your head because apparently you read something else into my post.
Calm down. I didn't make any comment or have any thoughts on whether you thought it good or bad. My point was about the banality of the Foster quote in the article - what else does anyone expect him, or any other Head Coach, to say, FFS?
Fair enough I mistook you post for something else.And I am Calm when I am not its ugly.
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@Tim said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Bovidae said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Wales
How long is Gatland's contract for? Just one year?
Only until the RWC at this stage.
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Foster trying to paint what's best for himself as what is best for the ABs. Not impressed by those comments.
Boks did ok at the 07 RWC when Jake White knew he was gone going into it......
@KiwiMurph said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Foster trying to paint what's best for himself as what is best for the ABs.
This.
Might as well have said - "Please let me keep my job."
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@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
So Foster would like to keep him job by the sounds of his remarks and wants go to another WC.
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
Imagine, the head coach of a National rugby team saying he and his players want to win the RWC. Not only that but, if they do win, wanting the opportunity to put his name forward to carry on.
Outrageous. Totally and utterly outrageous.....
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
So Foster would like to keep him job by the sounds of his remarks and wants go to another WC.
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
Imagine, the head coach of a National rugby team saying he and his players want to win the RWC. Not only that but, if they do win, wanting the opportunity to put his name forward to carry on.
Outrageous. Totally and utterly outrageous.....
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”"I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
He doesn't want them to choose now.
he wants to be able to say he "has the opportunity" ...another crack--what the hell does that mean, he wants to be interviewed for the job again or he just wants it given to him? -
Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my jobAppointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job.
And if Razor was in the same position as Foster and said the same things, there'd be a few on here going absolutely ballistic about how "arrogant" that would be.
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I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
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Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my jobAppointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job.
And if Razor was in the same position as Foster and said the same things, there'd be a few on here going absolutely ballistic about how "arrogant" that would be.
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my jobAppointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job.
Why? He's coaching the ABs until RWC2023 and he's being very clear (see quote below) his job is preparing his team for that and his job doesn't include choosing the next AB coach. Or are you arguing Foster should select the new AB coach?
“Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my job, but it has everything to do with the whole environment and the months we are going to spend talking about who is in and who is out of the next regime. That impacts on time with which I think we have better things to do.”
And if Razor was in the same position as Foster and said the same things, there'd be a few on here going absolutely ballistic about how "arrogant" that would be.
If the next coach suggested it wasn't his job to select the next AB coach, why would anyone call him arrogant? Or are you suggesting it wouldn't be arrogant for the next AB coach - e.g. Robertson - to say it's his job to appoint his successor?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Chris said in Foster, Robertson etc:
So Foster would like to keep him job by the sounds of his remarks and wants go to another WC.
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
Imagine, the head coach of a National rugby team saying he and his players want to win the RWC. Not only that but, if they do win, wanting the opportunity to put his name forward to carry on.
Outrageous. Totally and utterly outrageous.....
Actually he said
“That is our goal. We know we have to earn everyone’s respect. And we want to do that - bring the World Cup home - and if we do, I want to be able to stand up, and I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”"I’d like the opportunity to say that maybe I would like to have another crack at this job.”
He doesn't want them to choose now.
he wants to be able to say he "has the opportunity" ...another crack--what the hell does that mean, he wants to be interviewed for the job again or he just wants it given to him?@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
He doesn't want them to choose now.
And gives perfectly valid reasons why be believes that.
he wants to be able to say he "has the opportunity" ...another crack--what the hell does that mean, he wants to be interviewed for the job again or he just wants it given to him?
It means the idea of a RWC-winning coach wanting another go at the job - hardly controversial, arrogant or unusual.
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I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
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@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
I agree that they are valid points. I don’t see why we the public need him making them.
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@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my jobAppointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job.
Why? He's coaching the ABs until RWC2023 and he's being very clear (see quote below) his job is preparing his team for that and his job doesn't include choosing the next AB coach. Or are you arguing Foster should select the new AB coach?
“Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my job, but it has everything to do with the whole environment and the months we are going to spend talking about who is in and who is out of the next regime. That impacts on time with which I think we have better things to do.”
And if Razor was in the same position as Foster and said the same things, there'd be a few on here going absolutely ballistic about how "arrogant" that would be.
If the next coach suggested it wasn't his job to select the next AB coach, why would anyone call him arrogant? Or are you suggesting it wouldn't be arrogant for the next AB coach - e.g. Robertson - to say it's his job to appoint his successor?
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my jobAppointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job.
Why? He's coaching the ABs until RWC2023 and he's being very clear (see quote below) his job is preparing his team for that and his job doesn't include choosing the next AB coach. Or are you arguing Foster should select the new AB coach?
Ha!
I never did. You twist and twist like a twisty thing.“Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my job, but it has everything to do with the whole environment and the months we are going to spend talking about who is in and who is out of the next regime. That impacts on time with which I think we have better things to do.”
If it is not his job don't talk about it.
And if Razor was in the same position as Foster and said the same things, there'd be a few on here going absolutely ballistic about how "arrogant" that would be.
If the next coach suggested it wasn't his job to select the next AB coach, why would anyone call him arrogant?
No.
I'm saying he is telling them he'd like them to choose after the cup and he'd like yet another chance if he/they win this one.I also don't see clear evidence that choosing a coach now (or even just laying out the selection process and timeframe) would ruin the AB chances for RWC success. For instance, they've won when Foster wasn't even there!
Or are you suggesting it wouldn't be arrogant for the next AB coach - e.g. Robertson - to say it's his job to appoint his successor?
Not saying that either.
I'm saying if Robertson said what Foster said there'd be posters on here calling him arrogant. -
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my jobAppointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job.
Why? He's coaching the ABs until RWC2023 and he's being very clear (see quote below) his job is preparing his team for that and his job doesn't include choosing the next AB coach. Or are you arguing Foster should select the new AB coach?
Ha!
I never did. You twist and twist like a twisty thing.“Going [appointing the next coach] pre- or post- [World Cup] has very little to do with my job, but it has everything to do with the whole environment and the months we are going to spend talking about who is in and who is out of the next regime. That impacts on time with which I think we have better things to do.”
If it is not his job don't talk about it.
And if Razor was in the same position as Foster and said the same things, there'd be a few on here going absolutely ballistic about how "arrogant" that would be.
If the next coach suggested it wasn't his job to select the next AB coach, why would anyone call him arrogant?
No.
I'm saying he is telling them he'd like them to choose after the cup and he'd like yet another chance if he/they win this one.I also don't see clear evidence that choosing a coach now (or even just laying out the selection process and timeframe) would ruin the AB chances for RWC success. For instance, they've won when Foster wasn't even there!
Or are you suggesting it wouldn't be arrogant for the next AB coach - e.g. Robertson - to say it's his job to appoint his successor?
Not saying that either.
I'm saying if Robertson said what Foster said there'd be posters on here calling him arrogant.@nostrildamus said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I never did. You twist and twist like a twisty thing.
Never said you did. I simply asked you a question to clarify your thinking around your comment that "Appointing the next coach, I'd say, has a lot to do with Foster's job."
If it is not his job don't talk about it.
He wasn't talking about the process (which he made very clear wasn't his job) - he was talking about the impact on coaching the ABs which is his job. (You argued, remember, that it has a lot to do with Foster's job)
I'm saying he is telling them he'd like them to choose after the cup and he'd like yet another chance if he/they win this one.
He isn't "telling" them to do anything - he's made it clear it's their choice. He's offering an opinion that, in his view, the downsides of choosing a new coach pre-RWC2023 outweigh the upsides. Should he have done so publicly? Dunno.
And of course he'd want another crack at the job if he won - who wouldn't?
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
I agree that they are valid points. I don’t see why we the public need him making them.
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
I agree that they are valid points. I don’t see why we the public need him making them. We
I don't know who is better placed to make those points. Whether it was best done in public, I'm not so sure.
Can't say I'd blame him with all the media-puffing around Robertson & JJ going on and the way he was treated by his employers last year.
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to me it feels like he is the one creating the 'distraction', creating an issue for his players to grab hold of.
Maybe if he told his team, win, lose or draw, I'm done post RWC (assuming this was his plan, but by the sounds of it, it isn't...) it would remove any 'distractions' but at the same time, he should have told all his main squad not to annouce thier intentions post-RWC as well, cos 'distractions'
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@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
I agree that they are valid points. I don’t see why we the public need him making them.
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@Victor-Meldrew said in Foster, Robertson etc:
@gt12 said in Foster, Robertson etc:
I think Foster has a point that this is really about Razor’s timeline.
I also think he’s doing the wrong thing by making this a public discussion. This won’t be a problem for the All Blacks unless he makes it one. Save that shit for the book Fozzie.
Foster raises some very valid points. It's up to NZR to manage the process to address those and ensure the process and transition in a way which mitigates them. Not holding my breath mind.
I agree that they are valid points. I don’t see why we the public need him making them. We
There's quite obviously more at play here for Foster to speak publicly about this.
Say all you like about his coaching abilities and decisions but the man has shown over and over that he has integrity and that he holds the ABs ahead of himself. (I get that some will say that him simply thinking he should be in the job is the opposite to that).
This is washing the dirties in public and he is likely to have done so in frustration. To me it points yet again to MR as not being good at handling conflicting opinions. He has shown this over and over with the BFs, the ABs, Oz Rugby etc and provides no one (public/ media/ stakeholders) with confidence that there are clear decision making paths. -
I don't get how people can brush of the idea of 'distractions' as if it doesn't exist.
In pro sport an athlete is always looking ahead to where their bread and butter lies. They have agents that will be constantly assessing the future happenings and opportunities.
I'm going to randomly single out an example with some big assumptions. Hoskins Sotutu.
He is in Foster's plans at the moment and let's say that he has assurances that if he maintains form and develops his 'work ons' then he is in the squad. Throw a confirmed coach change in the mix and he is looking over his shoulder big time. That is a distraction. He and his agent have the risk likelihood raised to 'almost certain' and will be looking for other gigs actively.
Let them get on with it and that risk likelihood is possible/probable but the level of urgency is much lower. He will get his agent to line up possible changes awaiting an outcome but will put his own efforts into performance without 'distractions'Edit: I can also guarantee that a player like that would have to deal with comments and questions about fighting for their job. Less charitable commentators would focus on their weaknesses and claim that 'new coach' will get rid of them.
Distractions.
