All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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Let's all just agree that changing who plays at centre still won't give us front foot ball.
It's the ability of our forwards to secure, retain possession and provide quick ball over the advantage line that will provide space. They also need to not act like revolving doors in defence, or give away penalties if they do inadvertently tackle someone.
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I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
Also RTS may be the future but based on super rugby he did not stand out. Give him a year of provincial rugby and come back to it and see how he looks. If he doesn't dominate there we have our answer.
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@mariner4life Just usual provincial bias that clouds people's judgements on here even if they swear they don't do it.
@African-Monkey said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mariner4life Just usual provincial bias that clouds people's judgements on here even if they swear they don't do it.
Bit harsh on the Auckland and Blues supporters there…
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I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
Also RTS may be the future but based on super rugby he did not stand out. Give him a year of provincial rugby and come back to it and see how he looks. If he doesn't dominate there we have our answer.
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
It doesn’t feel like Cane won any turnovers in the last test. I like his physical presence at collision, but elsewhere his ball skills let him down. Ardie tends to ride tackles down than win collisions but is good as the 2nd man in. But I know what you mean about having a 7 that wins more on the ground. Nowadays they have to built like a brick shithouse to take the knocks.
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What about this:
Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J Barrett@Mackerzzzz said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
What about this:
Props: Ofa Tu'ungafasi, N Laulala, T Lomax, G Bower, E De Groot, A Ross
Hooker: S Taukei'aho, C Taylor, A Aumua
Locks: S Whitelock, S Barrett, T Vaii, J Goodhue*
Flanker/No8s: A Savea, S Cane, D Papalii, C Grace, L Jacobson, H Sotutu
Scrunhalfs: A Smith, F Christie, F Fakatava
First fives: B Barrett, R Mo'unga, (Either DMac or Perofeta depending on eligibility)
Centres: R Ioane, J Goodhue, RTS, Q Tupaea, D Havili
Wingers: C Clarke, S Reece, L Fainga'anuku, M Telea*
Fullbacks: W Jordan, J BarrettI agree on most of this with a couple of exceptions;
- You’ve left out Akira Ioane, one of the best performers in Test 3.
- I would include Patty T, personal bias but also same reasoning as Laulala ie, experience. If Whitelock falls over you’re left with Barrett who we want at 6 and Vaa’i with a newbie on the bench? Too much risk.
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I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
Also RTS may be the future but based on super rugby he did not stand out. Give him a year of provincial rugby and come back to it and see how he looks. If he doesn't dominate there we have our answer.
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
It doesn’t feel like Cane won any turnovers in the last test. I like his physical presence at collision, but elsewhere his ball skills let him down. Ardie tends to ride tackles down than win collisions but is good as the 2nd man in. But I know what you mean about having a 7 that wins more on the ground. Nowadays they have to built like a brick shithouse to take the knocks.
@kev again I think it is in part how we are playing, as opposed to not having players for the job.
I think in part rucks are such a lottery now, im not sure it is worth attacking as much.
Dalton certainly has the physical attributes to be a good 7, runs good lines, and has a presence like Cane does in the d line, so looks like he is just biding his time behind Cane, as Cane did behind Richie.
Obviously the other thing is Ardie, he often is one of the first to rucks, but doesn't always attack, so again, leads me to think it is a tactic, so they could also move Ardie to 7, opening the door for Sotutu at 8, whose game I really want to see grown at international level.
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@kev again I think it is in part how we are playing, as opposed to not having players for the job.
I think in part rucks are such a lottery now, im not sure it is worth attacking as much.
Dalton certainly has the physical attributes to be a good 7, runs good lines, and has a presence like Cane does in the d line, so looks like he is just biding his time behind Cane, as Cane did behind Richie.
Obviously the other thing is Ardie, he often is one of the first to rucks, but doesn't always attack, so again, leads me to think it is a tactic, so they could also move Ardie to 7, opening the door for Sotutu at 8, whose game I really want to see grown at international level.
@taniwharugby yeah, there is a lot more to tactics than we know. I don’t think DP has had a fair crack yet. Time will tell. But calling back Frizzell and PT were disappointing decisions for me. Both have had a really good go and I can’t see they offer what we are missing. Kaino became a good player so maybe but….
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@Crucial tours been cancelled, people are being too mean!
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
We had one very good one, in Boshier. Should have been thrown a bone by the selectors, if only to keep that tactical option open to us. We didn't have one available at all for a long time after Richie slowed down a bit, so all and sundry started pretending it wasn't a useful skill anymore, hence all the Pocock is useless crap.
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@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
@Crazy-Horse said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@broughie said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@TheMojoman at super rugby level but has not shown anything at international except against the minnows. I think @Bones was suggesting 1st five but he would have the same problem in Canterbury.
We are talking about DH at 10? Please no. He was barely adequate there for the Crusaders. DH's best position is 15 IMO.
Havili's best position at AB level is on the bench, so we can have a reserve halfback and stack the forward reserves.
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@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
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Harmon, Christie, Kirifi The players are there but we don't seem interested in that style of play.
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@mooshld I don't think they are to be honest, none of those guys are at the level required yet. Kirifi is a penalty magnet, Christie is more a tackler than a turnover merchant, and Harmon is only solid.
@reprobate My point is they are all genuine 7's if we want to change the way we play they are our best options, and if they are the best we have then I would rather we tried that, then picked 5 6's and filled the 3 loose forward roles with them.
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So what we're saying, is we should pick 7's from (and adopt the style of play from) a couple of the losingest teams in SRA? Makes sense with our record I guess.
hahah hey Tom Christie was in a winning team. If they are the best then yeah we should pick from them. Enough with out of position players.
You can't tell me there isn't a better 6 in New Zealand then a lock that sometimes plays 6 and there isn't a better 7 then an out of form guy that doesn't get turnovers and plays more like a 6 then a 7 anyway.
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@ACT-Crusader said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@mooshld said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
I would quite like a genuine fetcher at 7 bring to balance the loose forwards and maybe secure us a bit more ball. If you have big ball runners at 6 and 8 you can afford a smaller 7 who just makes their tackles and pilfers ball. Our current style feels like our 7's are more like 6 and a halfs.
genuine fetcher? pilfers?
Cobber, take that Phil Waugh, David Pocock speak over to GAGR
The closest player to that description is probably Harmon who didn’t disgrace himself for the MABs, but it’s a question of potentially sacrificing other areas.
We had one very good one, in Boshier. Should have been thrown a bone by the selectors, if only to keep that tactical option open to us. We didn't have one available at all for a long time after Richie slowed down a bit, so all and sundry started pretending it wasn't a useful skill anymore, hence all the Pocock is useless crap.
@reprobate I’m not implying or have been in the Pocock is useless camp. But he lurked for good parts of games looking for turnover ball. As the game changed and law interpretations along with it, those opportunities became less and less. So questions were raised, what else is he bringing?
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I think both Papali'i and Blackadder (when fit) could play that type of 7 role, if that's what the coaches wanted.
@Stargazer Agree with this. But if they are injured we should look at the next cab off the rank not try to shoe horn someone in.
