All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship
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Agree with shakeup at prop. Noted scrummagers Laulala & Karl T got to go given their performances - no use being noted scrummagers when you do stuff all outside of that. That attempted offload by Laulala was the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen Persevere with Ofa as he’s a good scrummager and better around the park than Laulala. I’d love to see Hodgman come in at LH, reminds me of a Ta’avao but I think they’ll go with DeGroot as next cab off rank. I know he’s gotten a lot of heat from the Tahs game but Lomax should get another short.
Locks given Retallick is hurt, Patty is a straight swap and potentially move Barrett to 6 permanently? Not sure who’s next in line at lock, maybe one of the Māori AB locks?
Loosies you’d have to include Grace probably at the expense of PGS which is harsh but desperate times call for desperate measures. Where does that leave Sotutu though?
In terms of the backs I don’t think changes from outside the squad are needed but they need to settle on a 12 to build a decent combo with Rieko. Tupaea needs time and RTS needs even more time. Havili is a wonderful Super player who seems to lack an outstanding skill at test level. That leaves Goodhue..why not? Clarke needs game time.
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Agree with shakeup at prop. Noted scrummagers Laulala & Karl T got to go given their performances - no use being noted scrummagers when you do stuff all outside of that. That attempted offload by Laulala was the stupidest thing I’ve ever seen Persevere with Ofa as he’s a good scrummager and better around the park than Laulala. I’d love to see Hodgman come in at LH, reminds me of a Ta’avao but I think they’ll go with DeGroot as next cab off rank. I know he’s gotten a lot of heat from the Tahs game but Lomax should get another short.
Locks given Retallick is hurt, Patty is a straight swap and potentially move Barrett to 6 permanently? Not sure who’s next in line at lock, maybe one of the Māori AB locks?
Loosies you’d have to include Grace probably at the expense of PGS which is harsh but desperate times call for desperate measures. Where does that leave Sotutu though?
In terms of the backs I don’t think changes from outside the squad are needed but they need to settle on a 12 to build a decent combo with Rieko. Tupaea needs time and RTS needs even more time. Havili is a wonderful Super player who seems to lack an outstanding skill at test level. That leaves Goodhue..why not? Clarke needs game time.
I think Sotutu is AB material.
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@Stargazer Weber looked sharp for the Maori's so a recall could be on the cards, tough on Finlay in some respects but Weber off the bench over in South Africa might be the way to go.
@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer Weber looked sharp for the Maori's so a recall could be on the cards, tough on Finlay in some respects but Weber off the bench over in South Africa might be the way to go.
I agree.
nb how did you think Fakatava went in the game? (If you posted I missed it). His performance seems a bit argued over on here. -
@ACT-Crusader Absolutely. MSR is very, very average, and is a criminal, so may not be able to travel. I'd have Goodhue, Strange, and others ahead of him. Very overrated player.
@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@ACT-Crusader Absolutely. MSR is very, very average, and is a criminal, so may not be able to travel. I'd have Goodhue, Strange, and others ahead of him. Very overrated player.
MSR has good size and does bring a physicality, but I saw a fair amount of walking and hands on hips during that second MABs game.
Whereas Dickson played with physicality, high energy and some accuracy, and looks an 80 minute player.
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@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer Weber looked sharp for the Maori's so a recall could be on the cards, tough on Finlay in some respects but Weber off the bench over in South Africa might be the way to go.
I agree.
nb how did you think Fakatava went in the game? (If you posted I missed it). His performance seems a bit argued over on here.@nostrildamus admittedly not so good the 3rd test, although seen enough in the Dunedin test to suggest we should persist with him in the ABs environment, also him being injected when we're behind on the scoreboard must be a lot of pressure for the 22 yr old, ( I couldn't even begin to imagine) start him against Argentina or Aussie in the RC & I think he can make the grade!
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@nostrildamus admittedly not so good the 3rd test, although seen enough in the Dunedin test to suggest we should persist with him in the ABs environment, also him being injected when we're behind on the scoreboard must be a lot of pressure for the 22 yr old, ( I couldn't even begin to imagine) start him against Argentina or Aussie in the RC & I think he can make the grade!
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@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer Weber looked sharp for the Maori's so a recall could be on the cards, tough on Finlay in some respects but Weber off the bench over in South Africa might be the way to go.
I agree.
nb how did you think Fakatava went in the game? (If you posted I missed it). His performance seems a bit argued over on here.@nostrildamus said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@FakatavaAllBlack said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
@Stargazer Weber looked sharp for the Maori's so a recall could be on the cards, tough on Finlay in some respects but Weber off the bench over in South Africa might be the way to go.
I agree.
nb how did you think Fakatava went in the game? (If you posted I missed it). His performance seems a bit argued over on here.He was average. Which in the context of that game is a compliment.
Worth sticking with and think we need to give him, Weber & Christie more game time to establish the pecking order.
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@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Cane looks battle weary
It's a strange one eh - did he even get in a decent amount of super rugby?
My brother swears by Blackadder on the blind, reckons he hurts people - but I just think he's a slightly smaller version of Grace - another 7.5 with a big motor. Just off the eye test anyway.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Cane looks battle weary
It's a strange one eh - did he even get in a decent amount of super rugby?
My brother swears by Blackadder on the blind, reckons he hurts people - but I just think he's a slightly smaller version of Grace - another 7.5 with a big motor. Just off the eye test anyway.
I like Blackadder, but would only really consider him at 7 at test level (or covering all spots from the bench). Too small vs the Saffas/Poms at 6. A big motor, hits rucks, runs hard, good link player, makes plenty of tackles. Work rate is something we need more of in the pack, as Rettalick and Whitelock are slowing down, and our props who can scrum (Nepo, Karl) don't have it.
Cane is just a tackler at present. That might be enough in a really good well-balanced pack, but right now it's not IMO. If that's enough then Christie should be in the conversation (and he shouldn't be). I'm not surprised he's knackered right now, he worked his guts out when we were down players in test 2. Should be short term though.
Sotutu I really like. He's got the best ball skills for a loose forward since Zinzan, maybe even better. Unsure whether he does enough ruck work and hits hard enough to work in a balanced trio for us at the moment. I like Peter Gus, but he can't catch and you can't have as many players as we do who knock the ball on a couple of times a game.
If our two locks were in their prime, I'd love to see Ioane, Blackadder, Sotutu with Savea on the bench. Since they're not I think Grace probably needs a close look too, even though it's a season too early for him really.
I'm not sold on Papalii, still young though. -
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@nostrildamus said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
Cane looks battle weary
It's a strange one eh - did he even get in a decent amount of super rugby?
My brother swears by Blackadder on the blind, reckons he hurts people - but I just think he's a slightly smaller version of Grace - another 7.5 with a big motor. Just off the eye test anyway.
I like Blackadder, but would only really consider him at 7 at test level (or covering all spots from the bench). Too small vs the Saffas/Poms at 6. A big motor, hits rucks, runs hard, good link player, makes plenty of tackles. Work rate is something we need more of in the pack, as Rettalick and Whitelock are slowing down, and our props who can scrum (Nepo, Karl) don't have it.
Cane is just a tackler at present. That might be enough in a really good well-balanced pack, but right now it's not IMO. If that's enough then Christie should be in the conversation (and he shouldn't be). I'm not surprised he's knackered right now, he worked his guts out when we were down players in test 2. Should be short term though.
Sotutu I really like. He's got the best ball skills for a loose forward since Zinzan, maybe even better. Unsure whether he does enough ruck work and hits hard enough to work in a balanced trio for us at the moment. I like Peter Gus, but he can't catch and you can't have as many players as we do who knock the ball on a couple of times a game.
If our two locks were in their prime, I'd love to see Ioane, Blackadder, Sotutu with Savea on the bench. Since they're not I think Grace probably needs a close look too, even though it's a season too early for him really.
I'm not sold on Papalii, still young though.@reprobate not the point of your post, but the props piqued my interest. I think we have to start again in the propping department. Our supposed props who can scrum - can they really? To my eyes they haven't shown anything really to prove they're a force to be reckoned with there and the most we seem to get out of them is a holding performance at best, but never perfect even in that regard. What's the point? Blood the young fellas now, en masses. It's not like we're even being successful at the scrum so we can at least get something achieved.
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@reprobate not the point of your post, but the props piqued my interest. I think we have to start again in the propping department. Our supposed props who can scrum - can they really? To my eyes they haven't shown anything really to prove they're a force to be reckoned with there and the most we seem to get out of them is a holding performance at best, but never perfect even in that regard. What's the point? Blood the young fellas now, en masses. It's not like we're even being successful at the scrum so we can at least get something achieved.
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement. -
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement.@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement.Doesn't matter how technically good your props are if the power isn't behind them.
Who are the best scrum/power locks in NZ right now behind Whitelock and Retallick?
Of these, which are good lineout jumpers?
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@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement.Doesn't matter how technically good your props are if the power isn't behind them.
Who are the best scrum/power locks in NZ right now behind Whitelock and Retallick?
Of these, which are good lineout jumpers?
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement.Doesn't matter how technically good your props are if the power isn't behind them.
Who are the best scrum/power locks in NZ right now behind Whitelock and Retallick?
Of these, which are good lineout jumpers?
Dickson might be a go. Does he pack behind Ainsley? Another I'd be strongly looking at.
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Another reason to hope for a coach change: Tuipulotu is a very big guy who is good for the Blues at physical stuff up the middle, but in the ABs he has been used as a replacement for the usual locks who are expected to play a more mobile game - he is not good at that.
@Tim said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Another reason to hope for a coach change: Tuipulotu is a very big guy who is good for the Blues at physical stuff up the middle, but in the ABs he has been used as a replacement for the usual locks who are expected to play a more mobile game - he is not good at that.
He's a lock who can't jump in the line out. Hopeless at top International level, where most teams will have 2 locks and at least 1 loose forward who are line out offensive and defensive capable.
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Smith
Mo'unga
Ioane
J Barrett
Goodhue
Reece
JordanBeauden, Webber, whoever else on the bench.
@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Smith
Mo'unga
Ioane
J Barrett
Goodhue
Reece
JordanBeauden, Webber, whoever else on the bench.
ALB when fit. Maybe Clarke or I'd give Faingaanuku another go, perhaps blood RTS. Havili another option.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement.Doesn't matter how technically good your props are if the power isn't behind them.
Who are the best scrum/power locks in NZ right now behind Whitelock and Retallick?
Of these, which are good lineout jumpers?
Dickson might be a go. Does he pack behind Ainsley? Another I'd be strongly looking at.
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@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement.Doesn't matter how technically good your props are if the power isn't behind them.
Who are the best scrum/power locks in NZ right now behind Whitelock and Retallick?
Of these, which are good lineout jumpers?
Dickson might be a go. Does he pack behind Ainsley? Another I'd be strongly looking at.
@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement.Doesn't matter how technically good your props are if the power isn't behind them.
Who are the best scrum/power locks in NZ right now behind Whitelock and Retallick?
Of these, which are good lineout jumpers?
Dickson might be a go. Does he pack behind Ainsley? Another I'd be strongly looking at.
I think back to Henry's tenure. Keith Robinson was picked for his no frills, basic style of play. He was no Retallick, but you knew he would smash rucks and tackle anything that moved (whilst his back didn't give out). Chris Jack was phased out because he didn't do the basics well enough and didn't provide a hard enough edge as an AB forward.
As time progressed, the ABs uncovered Whitelock, then Retallick. Maybe it is time to pick some locks who will give a consistent 7 or 8 out of 10. You can build a pack on that.
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@reprobate said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Smith
Mo'unga
Ioane
J Barrett
Goodhue
Reece
JordanBeauden, Webber, whoever else on the bench.
ALB when fit. Maybe Clarke or I'd give Faingaanuku another go, perhaps blood RTS. Havili another option.
@Bones I like ALB, and would be happy with whoever is looking most dangerous and making fewest mistakes out of those wingers.
RTS maybe, and I'm not that down on Tupaea either - but the first thing we need to do is get our error count down. I'm not convinced yet by Jordie at 12, but I am convinced he isn't half the 15 that Jordan can be.
Havili I like as a player, but I think a bit of size at 12 as a bail-out option is a very handy thing with Mo'unga at 10. -
Given Retallick’s injury plus the desire to use Barrett at 6 means Patty’s experience will be required. There might be an opening for another lock if they want to persevere with Barrett at 6 which given the Boks and Argies is probably a good idea.
@TheMojoman said in All Blacks squad - The Rugby Championship:
Given Retallick’s injury plus the desire to use Barrett at 6 means Patty’s experience will be required. There might be an opening for another lock if they want to persevere with Barrett at 6 which given the Boks and Argies is probably a good idea.
South African locks (any of them) Vs Patty T. Eek.
Even more eek is that he looks lighter since his Japan stint. A more lightweight Patty T.
Seriously, is there nobody better anywhere in NZ?
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@Bones said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@stodders said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@reprobate said in All Blacks vs Ireland - series decider:
@Bones Totally agree. They might be the best scrummagers we've got, but they're not good enough to dominate and earn penalties against top tier nations, they're only going to be slightly better at holding their own.
If the guys who can run and hit breakdowns can just hold their own, then that's a massive improvement.Doesn't matter how technically good your props are if the power isn't behind them.
Who are the best scrum/power locks in NZ right now behind Whitelock and Retallick?
Of these, which are good lineout jumpers?
Dickson might be a go. Does he pack behind Ainsley? Another I'd be strongly looking at.
I think back to Henry's tenure. Keith Robinson was picked for his no frills, basic style of play. He was no Retallick, but you knew he would smash rucks and tackle anything that moved (whilst his back didn't give out). Chris Jack was phased out because he didn't do the basics well enough and didn't provide a hard enough edge as an AB forward.
As time progressed, the ABs uncovered Whitelock, then Retallick. Maybe it is time to pick some locks who will give a consistent 7 or 8 out of 10. You can build a pack on that.
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