Bledisloe 1
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Would have been great if in post match comments they ask the ABs about the Foley decision and someone replies “we had a deal”.
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I remind the Australians of this particular French moment at the death. Happens to us all unfortunately.
@chimoaus said in Bledisloe 1:
I remind the Australians of this particular French moment at the death. Happens to us all unfortunately.
And I say exactly what I said after that Lion's test, if it happened with 20 to go nowhere near the controversy so ............
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@chimoaus said in Bledisloe 1:
I remind the Australians of this particular French moment at the death. Happens to us all unfortunately.
And I say exactly what I said after that Lion's test, if it happened with 20 to go nowhere near the controversy so ............
@Dan54 the comments about having never seen it before are rubblish as well. Maybe not those exact circumstances but freekicks for time wasting aren't uncommon at lineouts and even scrums. It is usually a message from the ref to not take the piss.
Last night the ref obviously felt that Foley was deliberately ignoring him. Foley seemed to be the only person that didn't grasp that. I had to laugh at that post match with Rennie where the broadcast team played only the latter half of what went down not the full discussion.
Not in translation? Maybe, but you play with fire and you get burned. -
I know it’s the nature of a forum like this as we all want to find things to comment on but there’s some harshness here in regards to player performances.
Clarke did fail to link well but he also created those breaks and that is getting forgotten. Linking and choosing the moment to look for support can be worked on by the coaches. Creating busts and breaks can’t. As for the wing defence I commented earlier that this has to be something he is told to do. The obviousness of the action and the regularity points to that. It’s not like he drifts with indecision. He purposely aims in to try and shut down the move with sweepers coming across behind. I disagree with the theory but can’t blame him.
I hope we take a leaf from the Convict loosies and run our big men from deep with power hit ups. Flatfooted SB/Sotutu/DP/AI do us no great favours. I’d love to see AI with a head of steam but it just never happens.
With DP and HS last night, it was a good case of be careful what you wish for. Neither was a patch on the guys they replaced. All those unseen Cane things were missing especially on the leadership front.
Finally the moaning about defence needs to be taken with a pinch of salt considering the reshuffling. We aren’t at that stage of being able to be perfect with disruptions yet.
All up though I loved the game for the outcome and drama. Was a goodie. I’m happy to not be too negative@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
I know it’s the nature of a forum like this as we all want to find things to comment on but there’s some harshness here in regards to player performances.
Clarke did fail to link well but he also created those breaks and that is getting forgotten. Linking and choosing the moment to look for support can be worked on by the coaches.Don't disagree with that statement, but that is definitely a core skill that you should have nailed by the time you get to be playing for the All Blacks. Same goes for his defensive reads.
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@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
I know it’s the nature of a forum like this as we all want to find things to comment on but there’s some harshness here in regards to player performances.
Clarke did fail to link well but he also created those breaks and that is getting forgotten. Linking and choosing the moment to look for support can be worked on by the coaches.Don't disagree with that statement, but that is definitely a core skill that you should have nailed by the time you get to be playing for the All Blacks. Same goes for his defensive reads.
@WillieTheWaiter said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crucial said in Bledisloe 1:
I know it’s the nature of a forum like this as we all want to find things to comment on but there’s some harshness here in regards to player performances.
Clarke did fail to link well but he also created those breaks and that is getting forgotten. Linking and choosing the moment to look for support can be worked on by the coaches.Don't disagree with that statement, but that is definitely a core skill that you should have nailed by the time you get to be playing for the All Blacks. Same goes for his defensive reads.
That's the nature of the modern pro game though. Players get accelerated beyond their experience.
It is school/Super/AB with time out for injuries and learning on the job. The days of him learning that stuff at club and NPC have gone. -
Clarke is 23, he's been playing rugby for 18 years. Presumably in competitive games for 10 of those.
We shouldn't be having to teach him how to look for support players when he gets to the ABs
It's one thing to try to link and mis-time a pass, or to have a mix-up with someone. But watching him you sometimes wonder if he's ever made a pass in his life.
That one (fantastic) break last night where he called Ioane early to run a line, then when Rieko did exactly that at speed, and he didn't even look at him.
Just odd
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@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
This game again showed that we desperately need a 10 that can take some control of the game. Beauden hasn't been in good form and Mo'unga is just all over the shop. If Beauden doesn't recapture his form, which seems likely given he is getting on in years now, I just can't really see how we win the RWC. We're going to be put under the pump and we are just too flakey in that position to handle any sort of pressure it seems.
We may or may not win the RWC. I thought he did a lot of good things tonight and moved the ball swiftly and created space and opportunities for us. He communicated well and made some good kicks at goal. But he’s rocks and diamonds like many of our players right now, in particular our backs, including our good ones like Ioane and Jordie.
And you are in the running for broken record award no doubt
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
This game again showed that we desperately need a 10 that can take some control of the game. Beauden hasn't been in good form and Mo'unga is just all over the shop. If Beauden doesn't recapture his form, which seems likely given he is getting on in years now, I just can't really see how we win the RWC. We're going to be put under the pump and we are just too flakey in that position to handle any sort of pressure it seems.
We may or may not win the RWC. I thought he did a lot of good things tonight and moved the ball swiftly and created space and opportunities for us. He communicated well and made some good kicks at goal. But he’s rocks and diamonds like many of our players right now, in particular our backs, including our good ones like Ioane and Jordie.
And you are in the running for broken record award no doubt
Yeah, I know I'm a broken record, but it's such an important position and I've been so disappointed with Mo'unga after all the hype. He continues to put us under huge pressure every match with really basic mistakes - dogshit kicks/clearances, kick offs out on the full etc, and multiple times this season the other team has scored on the back of them. We're just not going to win knockout rugby with a 10 that does that every game. I think 10 is our biggest weakness right now.
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@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:
@NTA said in Bledisloe 1:
@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:
An Australian mate reckons you have 1 minute after a penalty to kick - is that a thing?
If you're kicking for goal, sure.
Otherwise, play the fucking game.
So to be clear, if you elect to kick for goal, you have 1min? Is there a different rule for clearing to touch?
Correct
So if you're smart, you say your kicking for goal, then just kick it out, from the tee, miles upfield. Yes they will have the line out, but you can take the full minute and it's a long way back!
@Machpants said in Bledisloe 1:
@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:
@NTA said in Bledisloe 1:
@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:
An Australian mate reckons you have 1 minute after a penalty to kick - is that a thing?
If you're kicking for goal, sure.
Otherwise, play the fucking game.
So to be clear, if you elect to kick for goal, you have 1min? Is there a different rule for clearing to touch?
Correct
So if you're smart, you say your kicking for goal, then just kick it out, from the tee, miles upfield. Yes they will have the line out, but you can take the full minute and it's a long way back!
We tried a variation of that in under-14s in 1976 and got penalized for poor sportsmanship - which is now Law 9.27
It was annoying because our kicker purposely swiped it across to the wing, where I gathered it and scored a try (which was a very rare thing that season).
Looking that one up, I also found:
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Unfair play
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A player must not:...
d. ... Waste time. Sanction: Free-kick.
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Clarke is 23, he's been playing rugby for 18 years. Presumably in competitive games for 10 of those.
We shouldn't be having to teach him how to look for support players when he gets to the ABs
It's one thing to try to link and mis-time a pass, or to have a mix-up with someone. But watching him you sometimes wonder if he's ever made a pass in his life.
That one (fantastic) break last night where he called Ioane early to run a line, then when Rieko did exactly that at speed, and he didn't even look at him.
Just odd
@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:
Clarke is 23, he's been playing rugby for 18 years. Presumably in competitive games for 10 of those.
We shouldn't be having to teach him how to look for support players when he gets to the ABs
It's one thing to try to link and mis-time a pass, or to have a mix-up with someone. But watching him you sometimes wonder if he's ever made a pass in his life.
That one (fantastic) break last night where he called Ioane early to run a line, then when Rieko did exactly that at speed, and he didn't even look at him.
Just odd
Probably most of those 18 years he was the biggest strongest fastest player on the field and he ran over the opposition like they were speed bumps ,
And from there that has become his instinctive mindset with ball in hand ,
Not defending him but so many bad habits come from what has worked previously
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@voodoo said in Bledisloe 1:
Clarke is 23, he's been playing rugby for 18 years. Presumably in competitive games for 10 of those.
We shouldn't be having to teach him how to look for support players when he gets to the ABs
It's one thing to try to link and mis-time a pass, or to have a mix-up with someone. But watching him you sometimes wonder if he's ever made a pass in his life.
That one (fantastic) break last night where he called Ioane early to run a line, then when Rieko did exactly that at speed, and he didn't even look at him.
Just odd
Probably most of those 18 years he was the biggest strongest fastest player on the field and he ran over the opposition like they were speed bumps ,
And from there that has become his instinctive mindset with ball in hand ,
Not defending him but so many bad habits come from what has worked previously
@kiwiinmelb fair
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I know it’s the nature of a forum like this as we all want to find things to comment on but there’s some harshness here in regards to player performances.
Clarke did fail to link well but he also created those breaks and that is getting forgotten. Linking and choosing the moment to look for support can be worked on by the coaches. Creating busts and breaks can’t. As for the wing defence I commented earlier that this has to be something he is told to do. The obviousness of the action and the regularity points to that. It’s not like he drifts with indecision. He purposely aims in to try and shut down the move with sweepers coming across behind. I disagree with the theory but can’t blame him.
I hope we take a leaf from the Convict loosies and run our big men from deep with power hit ups. Flatfooted SB/Sotutu/DP/AI do us no great favours. I’d love to see AI with a head of steam but it just never happens.
With DP and HS last night, it was a good case of be careful what you wish for. Neither was a patch on the guys they replaced. All those unseen Cane things were missing especially on the leadership front.
Finally the moaning about defence needs to be taken with a pinch of salt considering the reshuffling. We aren’t at that stage of being able to be perfect with disruptions yet.
All up though I loved the game for the outcome and drama. Was a goodie. I’m happy to not be too negative@Crucial unfortunately he does drift with indecision and then he shoots out of the line to try and make up for it. It was actually surprising to watch live how exposed he got himself on at least two occasions.
Hopefully he can work on that.
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So 60-ish minutes of last night was how the All Blacks defence and breakdown looks without Sam Cane and Ardie Savea. A bit sobering...
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So 60-ish minutes of last night was how the All Blacks defence and breakdown looks without Sam Cane and Ardie Savea. A bit sobering...
@Donsteppa said in Bledisloe 1:
So 60-ish minutes of last night was how the All Blacks defence and breakdown looks without Sam Cane and Ardie Savea. A bit sobering...
To be fair - it has also looked like that with both of them on the field.
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@Crucial unfortunately he does drift with indecision and then he shoots out of the line to try and make up for it. It was actually surprising to watch live how exposed he got himself on at least two occasions.
Hopefully he can work on that.
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@Crucial unfortunately he does drift with indecision and then he shoots out of the line to try and make up for it. It was actually surprising to watch live how exposed he got himself on at least two occasions.
Hopefully he can work on that.
Interesting to hear that live perspective. On camera all you see is the act which looks deliberate.
Maybe it is the defensive plan but his indecision is causing the failure. I do think it is a dumb idea but, as I mentioned in another post, it is a flavour of the moment for a lot of coaches at the moment.
I won't mention searchable names here but I do know of one FPC team that is definitely employing this theory. I know because I have questioned an affected player and asked why they are shooting in on an angle and leaving the outside and the have explained that is what the coach is telling them to do. Then I have seen it in other games. I'm putting two and two together here and giving Clarke the benefit of doubt but I will also temper that with knowledge that he is hesitant.
Probably because it is so stupid a theory that it doesn't come instinctively -
@Donsteppa And that other guy.
@Chris-B said in Bledisloe 1:
@Donsteppa And that other guy.
Ah yes, some bloke from Ta$man
@Toddy said in Bledisloe 1:
@Donsteppa said in Bledisloe 1:
So 60-ish minutes of last night was how the All Blacks defence and breakdown looks without Sam Cane and Ardie Savea. A bit sobering...
To be fair - it has also looked like that with both of them on the field.
True, though at the 20 minute mark I wasn't expecting us to need the World's Jammiest Finish to win that match...!
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@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
This game again showed that we desperately need a 10 that can take some control of the game. Beauden hasn't been in good form and Mo'unga is just all over the shop. If Beauden doesn't recapture his form, which seems likely given he is getting on in years now, I just can't really see how we win the RWC. We're going to be put under the pump and we are just too flakey in that position to handle any sort of pressure it seems.
We may or may not win the RWC. I thought he did a lot of good things tonight and moved the ball swiftly and created space and opportunities for us. He communicated well and made some good kicks at goal. But he’s rocks and diamonds like many of our players right now, in particular our backs, including our good ones like Ioane and Jordie.
And you are in the running for broken record award no doubt
Yeah, I know I'm a broken record, but it's such an important position and I've been so disappointed with Mo'unga after all the hype. He continues to put us under huge pressure every match with really basic mistakes - dogshit kicks/clearances, kick offs out on the full etc, and multiple times this season the other team has scored on the back of them. We're just not going to win knockout rugby with a 10 that does that every game. I think 10 is our biggest weakness right now.
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
@ACT-Crusader said in Bledisloe 1:
@No-Quarter said in Bledisloe 1:
This game again showed that we desperately need a 10 that can take some control of the game. Beauden hasn't been in good form and Mo'unga is just all over the shop. If Beauden doesn't recapture his form, which seems likely given he is getting on in years now, I just can't really see how we win the RWC. We're going to be put under the pump and we are just too flakey in that position to handle any sort of pressure it seems.
We may or may not win the RWC. I thought he did a lot of good things tonight and moved the ball swiftly and created space and opportunities for us. He communicated well and made some good kicks at goal. But he’s rocks and diamonds like many of our players right now, in particular our backs, including our good ones like Ioane and Jordie.
And you are in the running for broken record award no doubt
Yeah, I know I'm a broken record, but it's such an important position and I've been so disappointed with Mo'unga after all the hype. He continues to put us under huge pressure every match with really basic mistakes - dogshit kicks/clearances, kick offs out on the full etc, and multiple times this season the other team has scored on the back of them. We're just not going to win knockout rugby with a 10 that does that every game. I think 10 is our biggest weakness right now.
You'd think that it is pretty basic to understand that if in attack your aim is to work the ball wide into space it would be a really dumb thing to kick the ball directly to the opposition out wide and in space. Doh!
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haven't read the thread but i bet it's spittle-flecked and angry. Seriously if you didn't find that fun you need some joy in your lives
When there is a bit of chaos, rugby is the best sport on the planet. Give me the carnage of last night over a robotic chess game any day. Cracking tries. Card drama. ref drama. some incredible pieces of individual skill on both sides of the ball. An after-the-hooter try to win. fuck what more do you want??
Firstly i would like to at the same time apologise, congratulate, and commiserate with the Wallabies. I didn't think that team was capable of that result. They were fucking excellent. Down 10-zip in the same number of minutes, they rallied straight away. They scored some incredible tries. Their loose forwards were beasts and just smashed ours. That was as one-sided a battle as you will see. Foley played a bit of a blinder really. Outside backs were a handful. A great performance cruelly not rewarded by a strange (but probably correct i guess?) call. You throw a couple of their missing pieces in to that team and they are going along not too bad are they?
For us Sami T was a fucking beast. In to everything, running like a train. Huge game. So glad he didn't get towed early. Our veteran locks were bloody good too, probably the next cabs off the rank for AB MoTM voting. Jordan seemed to find that spark again as well. Lots of stuff to fizz about in Black.
Enormous fun game. I am going to have to put up with a shit ton of whinging about the ref over here for a few days. And you know what? I reckon i'll let 'em. We won, and it was really harsh. So it's pretty easy to be magnanimous about it
A great Thursday night's TV
